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Player tendencies: Voidwalking


Player tendencies: voidwalking   

141 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you use voidwalking?

    • Yes, often (ie. To cross inconvenient cave gaps, avoid worm waves, etc)
      5
    • Yes, but sparingly (ie. Only to get to and from the Atrium)
      42
    • No, I prefer to avoiding out of bound gliches if possible
      94
  2. 2. How do you feel about voidwalking?

    • I don't care, let people play how they want to play
      67
    • It is tempting because it is the best solution to an otherwise tedious process(s)
      24
    • I like it because allows you to express your creativity and speedrunning
      5
    • I don't like it because it abuses an out of bounds glitch in a game
      45
  3. 3. Do you think Klei should patch voidwalking?

    • Yes, it is a bug and bugs are ment to be squashed
      37
    • Yes, but only if they give as a fun alternative to cave travel on response
      40
    • No, it allows me to express options and ways I play my game
      18
    • No, it makes FW speedruns much more unbearable
      8
    • I don't care it it is patched or not, I will adapt
      38


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For context, voidwalking is the ability to clip out of bounds into the "void" using a wall and a gate. While in the void you may go anywhere you like without obstacles.

I am doing a poll to see how people play given this glitch exists in the game and the wide spectrum of views on the topic. If you have a response not in the list please share.

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This is a pretty divisive topic.
Voidwalking is a glitch that exploits hitboxes and fallback mechanics to trick the game into letting you walk on the void. This is clearly abusing game mechanics and one can't blame Klei at all if they decide to patch it. It's important to make a distinction here; methods such as walls for Dragonfly are not glitches because there is no game "trickery" occurring. Lavae's A.I tells them to pathfind the shortest way to the player, and they don't recognize magma ponds in their way, so they get stuck on the wall. Everything is working as intented.

When voidwalking, the game is confused by the overlapping hitboxes and pushes you outside of the game area, letting you do something that is pretty obviously not a scenario the game knows how to handle. You even have to use debugging commands to get back on land, /rescue is an out-of-gameplay way for remedying bugs.

Both of these likely weren't intended. It's highly unlikely Klei looked at the Dragonfly fight and predicted people would use walls in this way. However, voidwalking is a glitch or exploit that takes advantage of flawed code. And boss "cheeses" aren't bugs or exploits or whatever, it's using game mechanics as they were coded flawlessly. There's not even a good word I can think of for these methods besides methods.

Examples of non-exploits: Dragonfly walls, Beequeen Grumble Bee maze, chasing mactusk until he walks back home, blocking off Fuelweaver with lureplants, blocking Klaus with his sack, using bees on Crab King

Examples of glitches/exploits: Voidwalking, Beequeen boat cheese, making twins unable to attack with a single pan flute use (before the patch that fixed it)

Both non-explioits and exploits are getting patched by Klei, which speaks bad design to me. Blocking Klaus with his sack made sense, everything else is blocked by it. But now, why is Klaus able to step through it? Why did they patch this expected behavior?

I understand the Beequeen boat cheese being patched, Beequeen's A.I breaking doesn't make any sense and is inconsistent with other enemy's behavior. 

But I'll digress before I get too off-topic and tangent about them removing consistent game behavior like the Klaus sack thing, and leave my case here. Klei can add better cave travel if they want (and they should), but breaking tentapillars is not this absurd quest it's sometimes made out to be. Voidwalking should be patched because it's inconsistent with game behavior and takes advantage of buggy code.

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Void walking is weird. I only don't mind it cause there's no better solution to traveling through gaps, unless lazy explorer but repairing that thing is more annoying really especially since it breaks down completely.

Either Klei would add a way to fix it and change that problem or make lazy explorers break down to a walking cane instead as the lazy practical solution. Those things never are worthy of my green gem use I swear, but there's not much other choice.

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Honestly the chances of Klei fixing it properly is very low, if it ever gets "fixed", it would probably be some band aid fix like kicking you back once you've got pushed into the void, rather than fixing the entity physics. It would be dead easy to mod the bug back, so I don't care about fixing it.

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Glitching out of bounds will probably never be patched, but they can just make it so if you stand in the void, you fall  (just as they added the drowning mechanic at the ocean) and maybe pop out of the caves portal with your HP damaged, or dead.

I only use it to go to the atrium, unless I’m playing as one of the teleporting characters or full goose woodie.If they ever patch it I hope they add a way to quick travel through caves (at least one more reliable than the tentapillar holes)

 

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imo - bugs are bugs.  I won't mourn if void walking is removed - BUT bug lists are long and I think void walking should be very low on their priority to fix.  Its a fun exploit that adds options to players and doesn't cause game instability.

I don't use void walking much b/c using a console command to return to land is not allowed for me.  It doesn't matter that /rescue is given to non-elevated players, its still a console command.  I'm only stuck because I made myself stuck.  There are ways to void walk without using this command, and I will use it in these times.  Whatever I can do in-game I feel is valid for use whether it is a bug exploit or not.  Many more skillful techniques in games (not just DST) come from bug exploits.

29 minutes ago, Q42 said:

Both non-explioits and exploits are getting patched by Klei, which speaks bad design to me. Blocking Klaus with his sack made sense, everything else is blocked by it. But now, why is Klaus able to step through it? Why did they patch this expected behavior?

 

Voidwalking should be patched because it's inconsistent with game behavior and takes advantage of buggy code.

Yeah removing collision for Klaus only was a really bad move imo.  It was a skillful way to use the natural interactions to combat Klaus's dash attack.  There are other ways to counter it, some that are more complete like blocking him off entirely with lure plants. Sure Wanda could get him trapped on it for an easy kill, but removing collision doesn't stop her from using her range to kill Klaus.  Same with preventing Wanda from attacking over the short gaps in the ruins.  This just added inconsistency to the game... its like the opposite of an improvement imo idk what Klei was thinking...

If void walking gets patched, then that's that.  I can't disagree with fixing a bug in a game that is actively receiving updates.  I just hope that like void walking on the surface, its only fixed because they're adding something in that makes it unneeded.  Player built bridges for caves would mean a lot imo and losing void walking to get them would be a net positive for me.

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Abyss glitch - "old as mold" one can surmise. Know why there's a specific command ("/rescue"), even in the in-game menu, to "solve" it? Because it occurs in not-intended scenarios so often: you build something on Caves map's margin, you can suddenly find your character pushed into the Void. You're close to many mobs in a corner for whatever reason? They can push you out of boundaries. Are you navigating Atrium and transition between sanity-insanity and/or other hitboxes (tamed beef) close to Obelisks? They may pushes you (and/or your beef) into the darkness, out of map limits. KLei should solve 1st these scenarios before adding a penalty (recurrent suggestion when VoidWalking issue resurfaces here-and-there, over time on these forums) for intentional Void glitching.

As for myself, yes, I employ it - as practicality goes, it offers a solution to a long-existing problem: the fact Lazy Deserter can't be used in solo manner, focusing it akin Telelocator. If Abyss glitch was solved at some point I wouldn't really care much. If I want easy ways to minimize Worms' impact, travel quicker, make easier tackling Tentapillars and Obelisks, I have alternatives, hence no biggie. But for as long as this glitch exists, I will "abuse" it. DS/T isn't a competitive game, I don't "unfairly" race anyone via this method for no prize whatsoever: in personal servers is solely my business; in pubs, early-game "Abyss Gate" is useless since one hasn't yet explored Cave map for points of interest or made a consistent camp; and in mid-to-late games if 2-3 players per MapGen remain, that's a win for most Endless servers (Survival seldom goes past 50 in-game days, and most solely run for the 1st Autumn's duration). Hence if 1 or 2 of them use it, still doesn't have any meaningful impact for rest: Thule and Gems by that point are abundant at Main Pseudoscience Station from repeated Ruins resets. Want AG loot? Communicate with them recurrent players. You solo everything, nomad, and don't engage with anyone else? That's a YOU-problem: why playing pubs and not (learn to) socializing?! Only things it rubs the wrong way are Egos of certain "purist" people that don't want any interference with their game style yet desire to exert their wills on the rest of server's populace. Sure, there is a case for "I want a fair approach from all parties involved to the default game play"; but in a game where nincompoops with torches can end your session in 20s I doubt the use of such glitch is some primordial issue, philosophy or not.

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The option ''I don't want klei to remove it because it's not a detrimental glitch'' doesn't exist for me.

 

I don't think fun quirky bugs need fixing, only bugs that corrupt saves or do damage to the game.

 

Void Walking is a glitch you have to be intent on using, you're consenting to do it, it is extremely unlikely you will accidentally do it and ''ruin'' your fun. At worst, you'll fix your alignment properly and avoid doing it in the future.

 

A glitch that I think needed fixing was in old Don't Starve, you could permanently corrupt your save with life-giving amulets if the resurrection happened at the wrong time, that's a bad glitch. 

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If players are using a bug to bypass a particular mechanic (ie tentacle pillars), maybe said mechanic could be looked at and improved so players don't feel a need to step over it?

For example, the tentacle pillar leading to the atrium can have a unique floor sprites and debris surrounding the hole. 

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why is this an option of all things

image.png.f1b166234887664607eaa67149e996a0.png

6 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I don't use void walking much b/c using a console command to return to land is not allowed for me.  It doesn't matter that /rescue is given to non-elevated players, its still a console command.

/rescue is a chat command, not a console command, by that logic emotes should be banned by you as well lmao

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i dont like using that kind of stuff but i don't care if is patched or not because doesn't affect me

if anything i prefer if they dont patch it for the sake of it because doesnt seems like something simple to fix

there are people that should focus on having fun instead of wanting that much klei wasting time on removing something just because others use it.

Always the people that complain seems to be bad at the game  really curious 

7 hours ago, Ardcrumb said:

Hot air balloons in the caves when klei

the thing is that the void is actually the cave walls in klei's mind

you can even see it in their shorts. Check grotto's update short ("forgotten knowledge"(?)) and maxwell's refresh short 

they even changed how wanda whip works so she cant reach enemies throw gaps (but bishops still hit your throw them...). Telepuffing dont make sense in klei's canon but hopefully they wont change it cuz caves are already slow to explore with that long corridors and unconnected biomes

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45 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

why is this an option of all things

image.png.f1b166234887664607eaa67149e996a0.png

/rescue is a chat command, not a console command, by that logic emotes should be banned by you as well lmao

Eh, semantics.  When an emote effects game play (old dancing bee while voidwalking the ocean?) I'll consider it.  Otherwise I think the distinction is a bit moot.  Its not a jump button.  I'm not gonna stop other people from using it, or rolling back when they mess something up etc, but I'm not going to feel good using it.

37 minutes ago, arubaro said:

 

the thing is that the void is actually the cave walls in klei's mind

you can even see it in their shorts. Check grotto's update short ("forgotten knowledge"(?)) and maxwell's refresh short 

they even changed how wanda whip works so she cant reach enemies throw gaps (but bishops still hit your throw them...). Telepuffing dont make sense in klei's canon but hopefully they wont change it cuz caves are already slow to explore with that long corridors and unconnected biomes

Eh, there are too many holes in that already.  Bishops shoot over walls, mobs detect over walls, if you're close enough to them they can attack over them.  You can inspect, cast, and target with ranged attacks over them.  The nerf for Wanda was done for balance reasons not thematic consistency.

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1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

why is this an option of all things

image.png.f1b166234887664607eaa67149e996a0.png

/rescue is a chat command, not a console command, by that logic emotes should be banned by you as well lmao

You should probably know exactly why that is a option.

So do you go:

a) clip into the void and estimate the location of the Atrium (which is pretty consistent between ruins biomes) and run around its perimeter to the gateway and fight FW  

b) thoroughly search the caves looking for the right tentapiller that leads to the Atrium and then navigate it to reach the gateway and fight FW

c) hope to find a lazy explorer in the AG chest and manage to telepoof to the Atrium, then you navigate it to reach the gateway and fight FW

I would assume (hopefully correct me if I'm wrong) that option a) will always be the faster option since b) and c) is heavily reliant on RNG can be a significant time loss in your run.

Poll options such as these are targeted towards certain types of players (here it is targeted towards boss rushers/speedrunners) and I try to collect options on all types of players (casuals, boss rushers/speedrunners, megabasers, etc.). You do make a point that this option can be lumped in with the other No option, but I still see there are people that picked this option over the other.

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8 hours ago, Q42 said:

Lavae's A.I tells them to pathfind the shortest way to the player, and they don't recognize magma ponds in their way, so they get stuck on the wall. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't lavae exploding and dragonfly enraging added as a way to counter the wall exploit?

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2 hours ago, Maxposting said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't lavae exploding and dragonfly enraging added as a way to counter the wall exploit?

I wouldn't know, I didn't play Together until A New Reign.

If so, apparently it didn't work lol.

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3 hours ago, Wurtstool said:

You should probably know exactly why that is a option.

So do you go:

a) clip into the void and estimate the location of the Atrium (which is pretty consistent between ruins biomes) and run around its perimeter to the gateway and fight FW  

b) thoroughly search the caves looking for the right tentapiller that leads to the Atrium and then navigate it to reach the gateway and fight FW

c) hope to find a lazy explorer in the AG chest and manage to telepoof to the Atrium, then you navigate it to reach the gateway and fight FW

I would assume (hopefully correct me if I'm wrong) that option a) will always be the faster option since b) and c) is heavily reliant on RNG can be a significant time loss in your run.

Poll options such as these are targeted towards certain types of players (here it is targeted towards boss rushers/speedrunners) and I try to collect options on all types of players (casuals, boss rushers/speedrunners, megabasers, etc.). You do make a point that this option can be lumped in with the other No option, but I still see there are people that picked this option over the other.

it just seems extremely specific considering only like 2 players have speedrun fuelweaver in the past year

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12 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

it just seems extremely specific considering only like 2 players have speedrun fuelweaver in the past year

Most likely is a general statement, since usually the speedrunners are ones employing game exploits the most, and not necessarily tied to DST.

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