Player tendencies: Voidwalking

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

the excuse was that void are walls

I am pretty sure players made this excuse, not Klei.  Did they make some announcement about it?

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

I don't want other people to use exploits, they should be fixed

is that a joke about how dumb and selfish that sounds because you want to ruin others' fun even though someone doing that doesn't impact you at all 

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

I am pretty sure players made this excuse, not Klei.  Did they make some announcement about it?

i dont remember if was explained in the patch notes but zark said gaps are walls. They removed that cuz balance but the excuse was walls

they are walls the caves shape is  designed around this idea, check the trailers

[Yuuko]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i dont remember if was explained in the patch notes but zark said gaps are walls. They removed that cuz balance but the excuse was walls

they are walls the caves shape is  designed around this idea, check the trailers

The trailers are whatever.  If they said the caves are walls then why was there no talk of all of the other weapons and behaviors that do not treat them this way?

I only recall players pointing to decade old trailers as if this were a fact this whole time, when no behavior in the game supports it at all.

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The trailers are whatever.  If they said the caves are walls then why was there no talk of all of the other weapons and behaviors that do not treat them this way?

I only recall players pointing to decade old trailers as if this were a fact this whole time, when no behavior in the game supports it at all.

because might be hard to code that behaviour when there arent fisical walls

whatever, the new trailers show the walls. You even can see how the "bridge" to the archives is the tunnel digged by the survivors or how the circle areas with trees and grass around cave entrance are rooms like the one where charlie and maxwell talked in his refresh trailer

isnt about what the intended 8 years ago, is what they are showing us today. The caves shape wouldnt make sense otherwise, all the bridges connecting biomes are tunnels connecting the rooms of a irl cave

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, arubaro said:

because might be hard to code that behaviour when there arent fisical walls

whatever, the new trailers shows the walls. You even can see how the "bridge" to the archives is the tunnel digged by the survivors or how the circle areas with trees and grass around cave entrance are rooms like the one where charlie and maxwell talked in his refresh trailer

isnt about what the intended 8 years ago, is what they are showing us today. The caves shape wouldnt make sense otherwise, all the bridges connecting biomes are tunnels connecting the rooms of a irl cave

there's a mod that adds cave walls and beta caves had walls too, iirc they removed them because reducing the visibility that much made it take too much time to explore the caves to find what you need, but at this point it's just rumours and no one has a link to a stream or a discussion during which klei said something 

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

there's a mod that adds cave walls and beta caves had walls too, iirc they removed them because reducing the visibility that much made it take too much time to explore the caves to find what you need, but at this piint it's just rumours and no one has a link to a stream or a discussion during which klei said something 

i dont remember where i heard that but still, isn not relevant to what im saying

i actually prefer, if they wont add real walls with the new transparency mechanics they are adding, to make it an abyss so they can add cave ocean or to fill it with Lovecraftian tentacles with pure horror glow go decorare it but seems like klei like caves being actual caves and not a weird infinity abyss with bridges

[Retepeter]

why is the dst community so anti-fun?

they ask for nerfs for literally any fun and complex character but when the least creative and most unbalanced character wolfgang gets a ""nerf"" its the end of the world???

 

just keep voidwalking in, if it bothers you ask the people you play with to not do it, end of discussion

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Retepeter said:

why is the dst community so anti-fun?

they ask for nerfs for literally any fun and complex character but when the least creative and most unbalanced character wolfgang gets a ""nerf"" its the end of the world???

these are two completely different groups of people

[Auth]

6 hours ago, Retepeter said:

why is the dst community so anti-fun?

they ask for nerfs for literally any fun and complex character but when the least creative and most unbalanced character wolfgang gets a ""nerf"" its the end of the world???

This is the joy of having a varied community. You will have people, that are, most importantly, individuals, express their own unique opinions and views. Lumping every single opinion into one conglomerate isn't going to actually give anyone a better understanding of anything.

People who want the game to be more challenging so that its rewards feel more rewarding are not anti-fun; just in the same way that those who wish for mechanics to make certain things easier, more trivial, or less convoluted are not anti-fun. There's also a ton of gray area between the two, or even further off to the sides. They both just have separate views of what "fun" is. Though I don't think I have seen a single person argue for both nerfing characters and buffing Wolfgang. That's why it's important to remember that a community is not a big clump or singular organism, it's a bunch of individual people with individual opinions.

I, myself, am thoroughly in the boat that features shouldn't be nerfed into non-existence, but more so that the means of accomplishing them should actually feel like, well, just that. An accomplishment. Something that you consciously worked for, that the game set out a path for you to take, that you took, and that you can now reap the reward from.

I don't feel very strongly about Voidwalking, I view it in a kind of way similar to something like an edgebug or surfing in a source engine game. These aren't intended features by a long shot, but they're still there, still offer an advantage, and are only really known by those who have dedicated a large amount of time to either learning the game's mechanics or simply learning that skill in particular. Whether or not voidwalking is removed would not affect me, so I'm quite glad that's an option in the poll. But still, let me use it as an example.

Voidwalking, as it currently is, is effectively free. It offers a tremendous advantage in many situations, most notably being that it can allow you to cross gigantic canyons in world gen or find The Atrium. Not that the atrium is actually all that important except for fighting the fuelweaver. A problem that arises with it, regardless of what you think of its balance, is that the process of doing it does not feel rewarding. It is an exploit, after all, and an extremely easy one. There is no skill, time, or talent involved in executing it. All you need is some grass, wood, and twigs, the most bountiful resources in the game, and boom, that's it. This, for a lot of players, can make such a large boon feel not only unrewarding but undeserved. But, like I said, I'm the kind of person that likes it when things aren't removed, and instead ratified into actual features. How could something like this be done for voidwalking?

Well, for example, lets use the exact same steps as the exploit, but now in a different way. Imagine you use the wood, grass, and twigs to craft a kind of rickety bridge tile. These would, instead of allowing you to freely walk over the void, only allow you to walk along a narrow tile you've created. Already we've changed what was an exploit into a feature, using the same rules as the exploit, but now it feels far more tangible, believable within the world, and even a unique feeling of some risk involved. This can make crossing a gap using a bridge you had to build feel immensely more rewarding, knowing that you had to put in hard work, and more importantly, that it paid off. If one wanted to take the idea further, you could even add more risk to it, such as unique interactions with earthquakes or enemies. Hell maybe there's even a void enemy that will attack if you spend too long on the bridge. But I'm not actually here to discuss the balance of this hypothetical feature, I'm just making a quick example.

I didn't even really put any thought into that, and as I mentioned, I barely even care, but already, by designing something to feel organic & have some risk involved, more ideas can spring up to add even more features or interactions to something. I'm sure even those reading it could get a few unique ideas themselves! This principle can apply to everything, and it's why I feel personally that designing features with equal risk/challenge immediately accompanying them is what leads to far more fleshed-out feeling features. Woof, say that 3 times fast.

6 hours ago, Retepeter said:

just keep voidwalking in, if it bothers you ask the people you play with to not do it, end of discussion

In the ideal situation, you want to be designing a game with features that bridge the gap between different players. Encouraging splits in your player base simply because it's easier does not contribute to a more constructive experience going forward, and neither does shutting down discussions because you disagree with them. Try to remember, that people discuss things on here because they feel it's an important issue to them, so every opinion should be valid, so long as it's presented constructively.

[BeeClops]

I wouldn't want it removed if they don't add zoom out and the ability to teleport further on console

better teleport/travel for caves could be a solution ig. 

[SapoLover]

I don't use it, so I don't really care. I don't know how many people use it, but maybe it's a signal that tells there's a problem with cave exploration. Tentapillars are not really a comfortable way to travel across the caves and you can't use tele-locator staffs there. They could do the same thing they did with docks and make players be able to make bridges/tunnels to connect different branches of the caves.

[ShadowbirdRH]

Thus far the only time I've been tempted to use voidwalking was to chase down and eliminate a mob that had gotten trapped in the void. Turned out I was able to take care of it without voidwalking, but it's good to have options, cheats if you will, to resort to when something happens that there is no practical, by-the-rules solution to.

[CyberSkink]

Let me put it this way, I would MUCH rather see someone use a macro to help them swap inventory slots easier than see them voidwalking. 

1 hour ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

Thus far the only time I've been tempted to use voidwalking was to chase down and eliminate a mob that had gotten trapped in the void. Turned out I was able to take care of it without voidwalking, but it's good to have options, cheats if you will, to resort to when something happens that there is no practical, by-the-rules solution to.

This would be a good exception to my previous statement. If it's using a bug to fix the game, then yes. But if they use it to speedrun, then I personally don't like that.

[chirsg]

15 hours ago, SapoLover said:

I don't use it, so I don't really care. I don't know how many people use it, but maybe it's a signal that tells there's a problem with cave exploration. Tentapillars are not really a comfortable way to travel across the caves and you can't use tele-locator staffs there. They could do the same thing they did with docks and make players be able to make bridges/tunnels to connect different branches of the caves.

This is the most sensible thing that has been said on the entire forums today

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, CyberSkink said:

Let me put it this way, I would MUCH rather see someone use a macro to help them swap inventory slots easier than see them voidwalking. 

This would be a good exception to my previous statement. If it's using a bug to fix the game, then yes. But if they use it to speedrun, then I personally don't like that.

why do you care about what other people do 

[CyberSkink]

Just now, grm9 said:

why do you care about what other people do 

good question. I don't rightfully have a solid answer to this question other than "cheating is cheating" DST is my favorite video game and I don't like watching someone voidwalk because it annoys me for some reason. People can do it if they want, I won't stop them, but I don't like it, personally.

[xhyom]

17 hours ago, SapoLover said:

They could do the same thing they did with docks and make players be able to make bridges/tunnels to connect different branches of the caves.

Pick/Axe could be a good candidate for this function, as they have been trying for some time to make this an attractive item with buffs or forcing it to be used in a certain fight... Even gunpowder could be used to 'undo' tunnels like they work on docks, causing a earthquake that fills the hole

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, CyberSkink said:

Let me put it this way, I would MUCH rather see someone use a macro to help them swap inventory slots easier than see them voidwalking. 

do you rather want someone using external training wheels to cover their skill issue than someone using a big/exploit to make something easier/less annoying?

i think the 1st player needs to git gud while the secons one, by void walking, isnt covering how bad at playing game they are, just making a path shorter

9 hours ago, CyberSkink said:

good question. I don't rightfully have a solid answer to this question other than "cheating is cheating" DST is my favorite video game and I don't like watching someone voidwalk because it annoys me for some reason. People can do it if they want, I won't stop them, but I don't like it, personally.

macros are cheating

even more than using the way a game works in your advantage because you are using external tools to make things easier, faster or, something impossible for a human, possible 

[Gashzer]

There is nothing wrong with cave exploration and finding atrium the normal way. Tentapillars arnt hard to find/kill.

Voidwalking should be removed but probably never will be.

Klei are as lazy as the voidwalkers when it comes to bug fixing 

[grm9]

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

There is nothing wrong with finding atrium the normal way. Tentapillars arnt hard to find/kill

it's boring and entirely RNG 

17 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Voidwalking should be removed but probably never will be

so you just want to prevent others from having more fun even if that doesn't affect you at all, don't you think that this is dumb?      

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

it's boring and entirely RNG 

What is wrong with RNG?

Just now, grm9 said:

so you just want to prevent others from having more fun even if that doesn't affect you at all, don't you think that's dumb?

What is fun about walking on a black empty abyss? That sounds alot more boring than fighting tentapillars

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What is wrong with RNG?

the fact that instead of something depending on the player and being a test of the player's skill or knowledge, it depends on things that you can't control or impact at all, so you could find the atrium tentacle as the first tentacle you find or the last tentacle you find, that's just a waste of time because there's no skill to express or knowledge to have 

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What is fun about walking on a black empty abyss? That sounds alot more boring than fighting tentapillars

nothing, but it wastes less time than walking around searching for tentacles and killing them, which is just hitting a few times, going away, killing the small tentacles in one hit and repeating, it allows you to spend less time doing boring stuff and you can at least try guessing where the atrium is depending on how the ruins are generated, while finding the atrium tentacle is entirely RNG, also, anyway, how does other people doing that affect you?          

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

the fact that instead of something depending on the player and being a test of the player's skill or knowledge, it depends on things that you can't control or impact at all, so you could find the atrium tentacle as the first tentacle you find or the last tentacle you find, that's just a waste of time because there's no skill to express or knowledge to have 

This just makes finding the atrium all the sweeter. Plus you only need to find it the once.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

This just makes finding the atrium all the sweeter. Plus you only need to find it the once.

so what's the fun part in having things happen independently of you? Do you also have fun by simply throwing a dice and seeing which side it lands for an infinite amount of time?