Player tendencies: Voidwalking

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

so what's the fun part in having things happen independently of you? Do you also have fun by simply throwing a dice and seeing which side it lands for an infinite amount of time? 

Yes i do and so do the millions of people who enjoy board games and gambling 

DST could do with alot more RNG.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yes i do and so do the millions of people who enjoy board games and gambling 

DST could do with alot more RNG.

then why are you playing this game that requires at least some knowledge and skill instead of something that entirely depends on RNG 

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

then why are you playing this game that requires at least some knowledge and skill instead of something that entirely depends on RNG 

Well the perfect game has sprinklings of all three things 

[grm9]

51 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Well the perfect game has sprinklings of all three things 

still no idea about what's the fun part in having success depend on RNG, do you feel good because of the fact that something happened and was good for you even though you didn't do anything for it to happen? Anyway, how do other people using voidwalking impact you or how would the removal of voidwalking impact you?            

[CyberSkink]

5 hours ago, arubaro said:

do you rather want someone using external training wheels to cover their skill issue than someone using a big/exploit to make something easier/less annoying?

i think the 1st player needs to git gud while the secons one, by void walking, isnt covering how bad at playing game they are, just making a path shorter

macros are cheating

even more than using the way a game works in your advantage because you are using external tools to make things easier, faster or, something impossible for a human, possible 

I understand that you're only trying to get a rise out of me. However, this answer is also an opinion, much like my take on the macro vs glitch situation. I think that the ability to quickly swap inventory slots with the scroll wheel should be in the PC version of DST. Furthermore, if you use a controller, you CAN quickly scroll through inventory slots, so it makes sense that the PC version should have this feature as well. I wouldn't say that using a macro of such minimal severity is necessarily a "crutch" if the macro is well balanced and based on mechanics already found in the game, it is merely a quality of life feature that the player designed because the developers have bigger fish to fry. Also, the "/rescue" feature was added to prevent people from losing valuable time and progress when encountering a glitch. One could argue that the glitch should have been patched in the first place, but personally, I know how hard developing a game can be with first-hand experience on the subject. On the other hand, using a glitch that most likely couldn't be patched to your advantage is technically not abiding by the rules made by the developers, and it is not something that would only save a few seconds, but full in-game days. So forgive me for choosing to abide by the game's rules with a minor twist rather than a major one. That being said, if you think macros are cheating, that is your opinion, and I cannot change this, much like how you cannot change mine, thus I will respect your opinion for what it is.

[Cheggf]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:14 AM, Shosuko said:

I am pretty sure players made this excuse, not Klei.  Did they make some announcement about it?

Every old trailer shows them as being walls, they used to literally be walls in-game before being changed for claustrophobia reasons, and game mechanics inconsistently have them behave as walls. Items can't drop into the void normally, and when they glitch to do so they errantly make water particles. Nothing can fly over them (Bats, ghosts) like they're walls, but certain attacks can (Bishop, darts), but not other attacks (Alarming Clock).

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

still no idea about what's the fun part in having success depend on RNG, do you feel good because of the fact that something happened and was good for you even though you didn't do anything for it to happen? Anyway, how do other people using voidwalking impact you or how would the removal of voidwalking impact you?            

Because without RNG the game plays the exact same everytime. There is no replay value, hence why RNG plays a role in almost every single game created. 

Voidwalking still existing is merely a symptom of Klei's lazy attitude in general, thats how it impacts me. Took them forever to fix ancient guardian and only after years of people complaining.

But its fine, everyone is ok with it so Klei has no need to improve lol 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Voidwalking still existing is merely a symptom of Klei's lazy attitude in general, thats how it impacts me

you still didn't explain how that impacts you

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Because without RNG the game plays the exact same everytime. There is no replay value

so the ability to play as 19 different characters wouldn't exist without RNG apparently, without mentioning having different goals for different worlds, building different base decorations in case of megabases, optimizing boss routes depending on character etc., and pigs having a 25% chance to drop pig skin instead of meat adds replayability apparently 

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

But its fine, everyone is ok with it so Klei has no need to improve lol 

preventing some people from having more fun isn't an improvement 

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you still didn't explain how that impacts you

Klei being slow to fix old bugs or improve old features is impacting my enjoyment for the game... not very good at reading between the lines are ye grm9? Lol

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so the ability to play as 19 different characters wouldn't exist without RNG apparently, without mentioning having different goals for different worlds, building different base decorations in case of megabases, optimizing boss routes depending on character etc., and pigs having a 25% chance to drop pig skin instead of meat adds replayability apparently 

Yeah its risk vs reward, do i feed a pig 4 monster meat to guarentee a pig skin orrrrr do i just murder him and all the pigs at pk an role the dice? Decisions decisions...

Sounds like you just want mactusk to drop a tusk an tam everytime... you do realise we wouldnt get that wee kick of joy when a tam does eventually drop if RNG wasnt in place.

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

preventing some people from having more fun isn't an improvement 

Just use c_gonext ("atrium_gate") if you are so intent on cheating. Why even use voidwalking at all? That is way slower compared to using console commands, might as well skip the boring travel time altogether and get straight to the fun bits am i right? 

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

There is nothing wrong with cave exploration and finding atrium the normal way. Tentapillars arnt hard to find/kill.

Voidwalking should be removed but probably never will be.

Klei are as lazy as the voidwalkers when it comes to bug fixing 

idk sometimes its really boring to have to scour the caves for days just to find that 1 last tentapillar and in those times I think "I should have just void walked..."

I switch off.  If I can see / teleport to the atrium I always do that, even if its a bit further from that edge to AFW.  When I don't see it I'll pick to either void walk or try the pillars depending on how I am feeling.  Void walking is certainly easier, but sometimes the journey is the fun.  Its nice to have options.  BUT only tentapillars have ever given me the bad experience of wasting several days for nothing.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

idk sometimes its really boring to have to scour the caves for days just to find that 1 last tentapillar and in those times I think "I should have just void walked..."

I switch off.  If I can see / teleport to the atrium I always do that, even if its a bit further from that edge to AFW.  When I don't see it I'll pick to either void walk or try the pillars depending on how I am feeling.  Void walking is certainly easier, but sometimes the journey is the fun.  Its nice to have options.  BUT only tentapillars have ever given me the bad experience of wasting several days for nothing.

Yeah i understand where everyone is coming from. But the atrium is the most endgame and most difficult to navigate biome there is.

It shouldnt be easy to get to.

[grm9]

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Klei being slow to fix old bugs or improve old features is impacting my enjoyment for the game

how does that impact you considering the bug we're talking about doesn't impact you 

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah its risk vs reward, do i feed a pig 4 monster meat to guarentee a pig skin orrrrr do i just murder him and all the pigs at pk an role the dice? Decisions decisions

that prevents you from choosing the second option unless that's unimportant or you're just foolish

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Sounds like you just want mactusk to drop a tusk an tam everytime

i wouldn't mind the tusk dropping after every 2nd kill and the hat dropping after every 4th kill with a guarantee

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

you do realise we wouldnt get that wee kick of joy when a tam does eventually drop if RNG wasnt in place

why are you getting joy from it considering you did nothing to get the loot after reaching the amount of kills that you reached 

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Just use c_gonext ("atrium_gate")

usually not available if you're playing on someone else's server and skips managing time to do the fight before spring, for example, if you're planning to use BQ crown for hat slot, teleporting and increasing the amount of cycles that passed in current day/increasing day counter is only available when playing solo and it's hard to estimate an accurate amount of time to add to the amount of cycles/days counter 

21 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

if you are so intent on cheating

did you not read my previous message 

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

It shouldnt be easy to get to

you said yourself that it isn't hard to kill the tentacles and people are skipping to the gate instead of the start of the labyrinth because might as well, it's hardly fun to simply run around until you find the right path and it's annoying to go through obelisks when playing with others because someone might have too high or too low sanity thinking that the obelisk is of the opposite type and that someone else has too high or too low sanity and lack of proper communication makes people want to avoid going through atrium with others if they aren't voidwalking                             

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how does that impact you considering the bug we're talking about doesn't impact you 

But the bug is not getting patched because Klei is very bad at polishing DST which is indirectly impacting me. We can dance in circles all night long...

Glad to have you as my new dance partner grm9 

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that prevents you from choosing the second option unless that's unimportant or you're just foolish

So you would agree that RNG is creating options and providing players with choices, making them think abit more about how to get things or prioritize some resources over others depending on potential risk of failure to obtain said resource? From my own loaded question i henceby conclude that RNG is a positive gameplay mechanic in DST.

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i wouldn't mind the tusk dropping after every 2nd kill and the hat dropping after every 4th kill with a guarantee

That makes literally no sense. Why would the 2nd and 4th kill magically drop these things? 

17 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why are you getting joy from it considering you did nothing to get the loot in the amount of kills that you've got it in 

This is such a beep boop way to think, which leads me to presume you are autistic or a robot specifically programmed to play DST in the most efficient manner possible. 

23 minutes ago, grm9 said:

usually not available if you're playing on someone else's server 

Just ask whoever you are playing with to install mods to allow anyone access to console commands. Hate when cheaters half ass cheating. If you voidwalk or use lureplants to glitch out bosses just commit to being a cheat, use teleport commands and stick on godmode.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Every old trailer shows them as being walls, they used to literally be walls in-game before being changed for claustrophobia reasons, and game mechanics inconsistently have them behave as walls. Items can't drop into the void normally, and when they glitch to do so they errantly make water particles. Nothing can fly over them (Bats, ghosts) like they're walls, but certain attacks can (Bishop, darts), but not other attacks (Alarming Clock).

'Till this day I had 3 cases where, when full inventory and changing my armor via left-mouse button, my other armor/clothing "jumped" into Abyss because was close to it. Some more cases happened with tools/weapons, but wasn't very important since those were run-of-the-mill early-game gear, hence no biggie if lost. But where it really gets annoying is with Shadow Creatures and how a lot of time when fighting them in narrow pathways or when close to Abyss margin, their drops aka Nightmare Fuel "jumps" into Void. Had some cases with mining Thule statues close to margin or when Damaged Rooks stomped them and some of the Thule/Gems "popped" into Abyss too. Also worth mentioning is how certain mobs spawn into Abyss, like Rocklobsters, Snails and nowadays the new Rasp Ink Blight, when executing its jump, for some reason gets outside map. Oh, and Ancient Sentrypedes can "escape" into Abyss as well if they roll on you into a corner (saw people forcing this bug intentionally, to have easier access to Archives post powering it up). I reckon this out of boundaries issue is quite problematic to solve from KLei's side. That or disinterest since it doesn't affect many people and/or not many complain and is nothing game-breaking really.

Another use (very important imo that I forgot to mention in my other post on matter at hand) of "Abyss Gate" glitch is as garbage disposal. Instead of losing time with Lureplants (that get paused during Winter), one can simply fill Backpacks/Bundles with "junk" and drop them into Void for instantly deleting unwanted items, like Winter Feast/Halloween items, low-durability tools & weapons, etc.

[grm9]

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

But the bug is not getting patched because Klei is very bad at polishing DST which is indirectly impacting me

so if they, hypothetically, would become great at polishing games and fix every bug except voidwalking, would voidwalking stop impacting you?

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

So you would agree that RNG is creating options and providing players with choices, making them think abit more about how to get things or prioritize some resources over others depending on potential risk of failure to obtain said resource? From my own loaded question i henceby conclude that RNG is a positive gameplay mechanic in DST

i've literally just told you the two scenarios in which you might choose the second option, one of which hardly exists because you either need a resource or you don't and you're supposed to prevent the other from happening 

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

That makes literally no sense. Why would the 2nd and 4th kill magically drop these things? 

because fun game design matters more than logic, the game already has a ton of magic and even has characters acknowledging it (e.g. maxwell's quote about pocket-sized walls) and because it doesn't make any less sense than the hat visibly dropping off the walrus' head and disappearing, but sometimes having a copy of itself that doesn't disappear drop on the ground out of nowhere 1/4 of the time 

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

This is such a beep boop way to think, which leads me to presume you are autistic or a robot specifically programmed to play DST in the most efficient manner possible

so, according to you, not liking RNG means autism?

15 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Just ask whoever you are playing with to install mods to allow anyone access to console commands. Hate when cheaters half ass cheating. If you voidwalk or use lureplants to glitch out bosses just commit to being a cheat, use teleport commands and stick on godmode.

and that's just being detrimental to the conversation and practically insulting others because of the way they play, i guess you're just pretending to be an idiot that doesn't understand the difference between not killing a tentacle pillar and walking around less because of using voidwalking and turning on godmode or disabling bosses' AI to be able to express more hatred, differentiating between cheating and not cheating in this context is pointless also, since it doesn't matter if you use something the devs intended to make or something the devs didn't intend to make to get the most fun out of playing the game, it's way too apparent that you're just trying to express hatred while you've got a chance because the thread's theme is related to people that you want to express hatred against                             

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Every old trailer shows them as being walls, they used to literally be walls in-game before being changed for claustrophobia reasons, and game mechanics inconsistently have them behave as walls. Items can't drop into the void normally, and when they glitch to do so they errantly make water particles. Nothing can fly over them (Bats, ghosts) like they're walls, but certain attacks can (Bishop, darts), but not other attacks (Alarming Clock).

I lose items to the abyss all the time.  There is very little work to prevent things from falling off the ledge.  I think most mechanics see it as a ledge.

[Cheggf]

Just now, Shosuko said:

I lose items to the abyss all the time.  There is very little work to prevent things from falling off the ledge.  I think most mechanics see it as a ledge.

You can't drop items into it and often when things drop they drop along the edge and slide around, like it's trying to prevent them from falling in but just bad at it. The only time items fall into the void is when the source of them drops them while hugging the edge. And it creates errant water particles when it does that, clearly showing it's a bug. 

[HowlVoid]

I'm getting dejavu. I think we see void walking threads like twice a month.

Anyways, void walking is used by an extremely small amount of players. It does not detract from any skill nor challenge in the game. 

Bypassing rng to get to the atrium isn't really note worthy (especially given the the way the atrium is attached to tentapillars has always felt clunky to me).

The community needs to move on already...

[Yuuko]

34 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You can't drop items into it and often when things drop they drop along the edge and slide around, like it's trying to prevent them from falling in but just bad at it. The only time items fall into the void is when the source of them drops them while hugging the edge. And it creates errant water particles when it does that, clearly showing it's a bug. 

I can't drop things into the ocean either.  I don't see any odd interactions there.  The game presumes you don't want to toss your belongings off a cliff.  However it is very common for items dropped from mobs to fall off the ledge.  I don't see this as a strong argument that there are walls.

Even in new beta Willow can easily cast her spell across gap, and Wig can use her spear dash for mobility across gaps.  I don't think Wig is burrowing lol

[Cheggf]

51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I can't drop things into the ocean either.  I don't see any odd interactions there.  The game presumes you don't want to toss your belongings off a cliff.  However it is very common for items dropped from mobs to fall off the ledge.  I don't see this as a strong argument that there are walls.

Even in new beta Willow can easily cast her spell across gap, and Wig can use her spear dash for mobility across gaps.  I don't think Wig is burrowing lol

You can drop things into the ocean. If you're playing with a controller I don't know how you'd do it, but with M&KB you can just click in the water and drop them in.

[Wurtstool]

Thanks everyone who answered in this poll.

It is surprising to see that even though lot of people don't care about voidwalking and a vast majority won't use it while playing DST, about half of the people who answered (26.7% + 26.7%) would want Klei to take some action about it. It tells me that people still care about about the glitch being fixed even it doesn't effect themselves, otherwise the "I don't care" option in question 3 would be much closer to the percent in question 2. Having about ~20% of people oppose Klei in in favor patching voidwalking says to me that we'll be better off overall if Klei did patch it.

However, take my analysis with a grain of salt as only a tiny fraction of players are forum users and we don't know how far down the priority list this is for Klei. But seeing such active opposition of options in this thread lead me to believe that this is a topic worth discussing. Otherwise this thread would have been dead a few comment in on page 1.