Does klei only look for power creep in combat?

[Evelo]

I still think Woodie is more Lumberjack than cursed wereman. He is called "The Lumberjack" after all. Give Lucy more stuff so sick of the transformations.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I still think Woodie is more Lumberjack than cursed wereman. He is called "The Lumberjack" after all. Give Lucy more stuff so sick of the transformations.

I feel like the issue is the transformations are a big part of his character and there's not really a lot you can do with the lumber jack aspect that hasn't already been done.

[Well-met]

give woodie a giant transformation

[Littlefat1213]

5 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I still think Woodie is more Lumberjack than cursed wereman. He is called "The Lumberjack" after all. Give Lucy more stuff so sick of the transformations.

i agree, Lucy is a very important thing for woodie but it seems just a faster noisy axe so far

[Jakepeng99]

22 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

The latests rhymes with play streams confirmed that wolfgang and wanda will be getting a character unique item/perk/something to boost them in the planar damage territory

why though? why can both of them stay relevant through  the whole game meanwhile woodie, maxwell or wurt get their chopping abilities overshadowed on the second autumn because of bearger?

i dont care about balance at all (but klei for some reason does, see the wolfgang rework) it just feels unfair that only wolfgang and wanda can scale their abilities from early game to late game where as most of the cast just gets overshadowed by lategame stuff

  Reveal hidden contents

i say most of the cast because im not gonna see how many characters are useful in lategame and how many are not

but basically, see the comparasion i did with bearger and woodie

Wurt, and Maxwell do not get outclassed by Bearger. Maxwell is actually faster than Bearger as he can pickup and do many other things at the same time like refining logs to boards, while also having all of it accessable from his pocket. And as for Wurt, she has access to wood chopping at any time and has the power to quickly kill tree guards really fast, where as you need to spend the effort to stop bearger from dying, and can't do much progress in Winter or Spring. Woodie does kinda get outclassed, though i think availability comes first and speed second, bearger is still great *when* you can use him, though Wurt and Maxwell can easily get into it when they want it, while having their other non wood related upsides and niches against bearger aswell. Woodie still kinda sucks because his other upsides lose relevance very quick.

 

Hooowwever, i agree with your point on powercreeping, but they may also do something like this to all characters with the affinitys. We will have to wait and see.

 

Also if Klei wants to do character balancing, they should give Wickerbottom an actual downside to compinsate with her overpowered books.

21 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Haven't they said the whole cast will basically get new perks/abilities based on whether you pick shadow or lunar alignment? 

I never knew this was confirmed, but i am so excited for Wurt and Webber, they will probably be minion related. 

[cropo]

22 hours ago, MadMatt said:

Weremoose is basically only 100% viable for farming certain hoards of mobs quickly. Frogs, spiders, shadow splumonkeys, and bees namely. He CAN be used for certain big fights effectively, like AG and NMWP, but against almost anything else he sucks. 

That's still way more uses than Werebeaver though, who I will continue to maintain actively HARMS Woodie by existing. It'd be a buff for Klei to remove the Werebeaver since it'd make full moon transformations and using cooked monster meat more reliable to save on resources and stats. 

Werebeaver is excellent for digging up the stumps of trees without needing to use a couple of shovels or a gold shovel, it also prevents treeguards spawning which kinda can be useful at endgame when you already have 20 chests full of living logs.

[chirsg]

Klei hates Woodie so much it's unreal.
The absolute contempt the developers have for the character is just ridiculously unreal.

-The weremoose is something that serves a small combat niche that will often become obsolete after first spring.
-Sure, he is probably the most flexible against hounds, but there are means to kill hounds with a high rate of survivability after day 100
-All the contempt for Woodie was expressed in Maxwell's rework where even with woodie's contention being the best lumberjack in the game, Maxwell had all his shadow minion niches rolled into a single spell.
-More contempt for Woodie's combat niche was with maxwell's shadow fighters. They do almost everything well in most combat scenarios, JUST TO SPITE WEREMOOSE
-A big serving of spite and contempt after Wendy's rework, just blowing woodie's crowd control out of the water in every single way.
-weremoose's attrocious stunlock and the high probability of getting stunlocked due to his VERY low walk and attack speed
 

There is definitely more that woodie gets mogged by, but for now, I'll leave it at that. There is a HUMONGOUS deal of just straight out hatred klei harbours for woodie.
Whatever mistake you think you made with woodie's overall appeal, you haven't.

He deserves a lot more than what his performance dictates. 

How could I forget moonstorms and wickerbottom's books. Absolute CONTEMPT

If you don't see that there is an Anti-Woodie conspiracy, You haven't been paying attention.

[MadMatt]

33 minutes ago, cropo said:

Werebeaver is excellent for digging up the stumps of trees without needing to use a couple of shovels or a gold shovel,

So point still stands he's just an infinite durability multi-tool and isn't actually any good at GATHERING resources.

Ignoring other characters which can save on using tools while also being faster, Bearger achieves all this come first autumn. He can also reliably be used there on out by utilizing birchnut trees rather than evergreens, so when you get to the point where you have literally chests of living logs there is almost no reason not to use bearger over anything else.

Even then that is such a waste of a perk. He saves on shovels and is kind of convenient after a year of in-game play or near 10 hours. And even then only if you have a specific resource situation. The Beaver sucks so bad.

[Capybara007]

i used woodie and bearger as an example lol now its the main disscussion

Tl:dr of the beggining of the thread, if klei is gonna scale wanda and wolfgang for the new content, they shouldnt only focus on combat, buff others aswell

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, MadMatt said:

So point still stands he's just an infinite durability multi-tool and isn't actually any good at GATHERING resources.

Ignoring other characters which can save on using tools while also being faster, Bearger achieves all this come first autumn. He can also reliably be used there on out by utilizing birchnut trees rather than evergreens, so when you get to the point where you have literally chests of living logs there is almost no reason not to use bearger over anything else.

Even then that is such a waste of a perk. He saves on shovels and is kind of convenient after a year of in-game play or near 10 hours. And even then only if you have a specific resource situation. The Beaver sucks so bad.

I mean at that point you also have to acknowledge that moose also gets replaced in this fashion if his only thing is I can mass farm mobs for loot then auto farms can completely replace him as well.

[Copyafriend]

Honestly the more i think the more i realize a lot of woodies problems are eased (not solved) by a way to turn back into woodie on command.

the problem i have with the goose is that unless you’re crossing the whole map, you have to sit and wait to turn back.

the problem i have with the moose is no healing.

I mean for those two at least it would allow you to stop being transformed immediately instead of having all that downtime, it would also solve moonstorms being an issue.

its not perfect obviously, and id prefer for woodies transformations to have SOME sort of over time increase in “strength” (or just improvements you can make over time outside of being more freely able to transform) but it would really help

[MadMatt]

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean at that point you also have to acknowledge that moose also gets replaced in this fashion if his only thing is I can mass farm mobs for loot then auto farms can completely replace him as well.

All the Wereforms are made next to useless at some point in the game. Weregoose once you explore everything, Weremoose when you make farms (though with planar damage the moose actually sees use when you first fight the new enemies), and Werebeaver the moment you spawn. 

But you don't instantly spawn with autofarms, and what the Moose provides is far more useful and effective than what the Beaver does. Especially if you want to do things quickly and not spend the time setting up farms, the Weremoose has an actual niche. The Werebeaver does things slowly which are useful only under very specific circumstances for less valuable resources. The BEST case scenario is I use the Beaver maybe once or twice early, and never again. The Weremoose I actually may want to utilize to mass resources over and over which would be short-term faster than doing it normally or spending the time to set up a farm. 

It's all about niches. The Goose and Moose provide a niche before certain points are met, such as knowing every landmark on the map or setting up every auto farm. The Beaver lacks such a definable niche since he doesn't actually gather resources well but does the functions of tools cheaply and quickly. This is useless by itself, and requires mental gymnastics to justify being useful in almost any capacity. The Beaver has a niche within a niche, making him the worst among bad options.

[Frosty_Mentos]

From my belief Klei likely will be balancing the new upcoming creatures to be something that is different compared to usual enemies we face, so the damage scaling on damage characters are null so that we could have something to work for instead of just have it.

While Wanda needs more effort compared to Wolf damage and utility wise, you do still need skill to handle her and to know what you need to get as soon as you can. Wolf is a safe choice of a character overall but some care is needed to keep the ramped up mightiness to fullest to have the damage and not get stunlocked while changing form. With the new lunar stuff and likely upcoming skill trees - they are put equal against the new challenges we'll face, meaning more exciting possibilities of what they could have, the builds they could get and be best specialized at fighting or dealing with something. We got so many characters in the game and it's exciting to see what could happen next with their current existing perks.

[W0l0l0]

I hope that Woodie could change between his forms at a wereness cost and wear amulets. Just that would do a lot for me. Maybe give moose invulnerability when charging and transforming.

(Don't forget how they did Willow dirty, Bernie being useless when enlightened, and Wikerboottom getting the only actual interesting fire related ability).

As for power creep, I think Klei does an amazing job keeping combat items from avoiding power creep. Maybe not the character abilities, but otherwise I really don't think people give enough credit for it. Most combat items stay relevant because Klei refuses to push the power. Weather Pains are always useful, Bee Mines are gimmicky but still can be effective, Blow Darts and Tooth Traps are always a decent last resort that can save you in a hound wave. The different armours are also really decent. The fact that I may use Marble, Log, Football Helmet, Shadow, and the Eye or Terror armours all in the same end game is a really healthy sign to me. I'd hate for all of those to end up useless inventory wasters.

[Antynomity]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:13 AM, W0l0l0 said:

I hope that Woodie could change between his forms at a wereness cost and wear amulets. Just that would do a lot for me. Maybe give moose invulnerability when charging and transforming.

(Don't forget how they did Willow dirty, Bernie being useless when enlightened, and Wikerboottom getting the only actual interesting fire related ability).

As for power creep, I think Klei does an amazing job keeping combat items from avoiding power creep. Maybe not the character abilities, but otherwise I really don't think people give enough credit for it. Most combat items stay relevant because Klei refuses to push the power. Weather Pains are always useful, Bee Mines are gimmicky but still can be effective, Blow Darts and Tooth Traps are always a decent last resort that can save you in a hound wave. The different armours are also really decent. The fact that I may use Marble, Log, Football Helmet, Shadow, and the Eye or Terror armours all in the same end game is a really healthy sign to me. I'd hate for all of those to end up useless inventory wasters.

You forget about how useless the trident is, glass cutter, even the new weapons compared to the dark sword, it's so easy to reach max damage weapon wise when you're experienced that there's 0 progression left after just a bit of time has passed in the world, there's absolutely 0 reason for the trident to deal darksword damage on the ocean when it's a lot harder and rng dependant to get.

[Theukon-dos]

57 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

You forget about how useless the trident is, glass cutter, even the new weapons compared to the dark sword, it's so easy to reach max damage weapon wise when you're experienced that there's 0 progression left after just a bit of time has passed in the world, there's absolutely 0 reason for the trident to deal darksword damage on the ocean when it's a lot harder and rng dependant to get.

On the topic of the trident, I'd also add that Shipwrecked's trident had the same gimmick. extra damage on the water. Except the SW trident made use of this niche properly by dealing 102 damage/hit while on a boat instead of 68. So I really don't know the Strident's excuse.

[Masked Koopa]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

On the topic of the trident, I'd also add that Shipwrecked's trident had the same gimmick. extra damage on the water. Except the SW trident made use of this niche properly by dealing 102 damage/hit while on a boat instead of 68. So I really don't know the Strident's excuse.

Well you see, it's strident. I'd wager they thought the right click would be enough to carry it in terms of functionality.

[Antynomity]

36 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

Well you see, it's strident. I'd wager they thought the right click would be enough to carry it in terms of functionality.

It didn't work, I don't see anyone using it anywhere ever.

[Theukon-dos]

3 hours ago, Antynomity said:

It didn't work, I don't see anyone using it anywhere ever.

To be fair, people probably would use it if the Strident Trident wasn't quite possibly the most expensive item in the game. I mean seriously three Gnarwhal horns? Does Klei think those things grow on trees or what?

[Antynomity]

5 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

To be fair, people probably would use it if the Strident Trident wasn't quite possibly the most expensive item in the game. I mean seriously three Gnarwhal horns? Does Klei think those things grow on trees or what?

I don't think it'd be that used even then, crabking isn't something you can reasonably do very early on compared to just getting a dark sword, but yes it would make it less of a rare sight.

[Well-met]

just give it shipwrecked damage, and give CK a rain conch then all will be well

[Antynomity]

6 minutes ago, Well-met said:

just give it shipwrecked damage, and give CK a rain conch then all will be well

If only that actually happened...

If I were to guess we'd probably get the conch after killing the CK with the pearl and only iridescent gems inserted because y'know, that's so fun and fair considering the state that CK is already in  

[W0l0l0]

6 hours ago, Antynomity said:

You forget about how useless the trident is, glass cutter, even the new weapons compared to the dark sword, it's so easy to reach max damage weapon wise when you're experienced that there's 0 progression left after just a bit of time has passed in the world, there's absolutely 0 reason for the trident to deal darksword damage on the ocean when it's a lot harder and rng dependant to get.

Glass cutter isn't useless.

With that being said, that's the downside we pay for no power creep. Any new items end up being gimmicky with varying effectiveness. I hope the ocean content could be stronger, though. I'm glad Klei prefers to make them gimmicky than simply increasing damage and other values.

[Baark0]

The problem with Woodie is that he's more or less a joke character, playing off of Canadian stereotypes. Woodie likely never will be anyone particularly interesting without a complete change in character. A lumberjack isn't that interesting to play as when you could instead play as a time bender, a shadow puppeteer, a half spider half boy, a soul stealing imp, etc.

[chirsg]

23 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

The problem with Woodie is that he's more or less a joke character, playing off of Canadian stereotypes. Woodie likely never will be anyone particularly interesting without a complete change in character. A lumberjack isn't that interesting to play as when you could instead play as a time bender, a shadow puppeteer, a half spider half boy, a soul stealing imp, etc.

Wilson is a joke character. Personally, Wilson is a majority of what won me over when first playing single player don't starve because of his dialogue. 

In single player, I think woodie was especially powerful as beaver. You cleared forests with ease and logs served as extra HP in boss fights. 

He was actually my introduction into fighting.

It's just that his nature in single player was not compatible in dst.

A joke character? Nah, no way. Woodie is a badass.

Having said that, Devil's advocate for your argument, sure. He's a joke character in together.