Terror Below: Rhymes with Play Dev Tidbits on Future Content

[sudoku]

And so here we are another update, another Rhymes with Play.  

Last update was the beginning of the new arc of updates so in case you missed it and want to familiarize yourself with what the devs had to say last time, here is the last Rhymes with Play recap 

These devcasts are the best way at gathering developer insight on newly released updates so I encourage you all to try and watch these if you can. It's nice to actually see the developers and get to hear their thoughts on the updates. But fear not, as with last time here is a summary of developer commentary on all things pertaining to future content:

• The prompts to opt into rift content seems to make it clear that increased difficulty is the endgame goal
• The scrapbook is just getting started with more categories being added in phases later on
• This is still one of the first updates to this arc so rift challenges are lighter and easier than potential future challenges
• May be more Endgame updates beyond the 3 announced depending on how complete the arc feels after the third update
• They want to add more variations of lunar mobs - this is the reason the brightshade spawn rate is so high at the moment because of the lack of future mobs
• Acid rain is currently tuned down until they rework some of the equipment in a later update
• They are doing work to the umbralla so that you can activate it in a way so you will be able use your hand slot (coming soon)
• Cowl might change in future - they are currently retuning all of the armor sets
  • They want people to use mixed sets more so this retuning will encourage this by moving around set bonuses
• Chair sitting is just a teaser for a lot more things to come in future updates (these features will be more involved than just an animation)
• Gateway will have more importance in future updates                              
• Future armor wont all be helmets and will likely return back to showing face now that there is a helmet for both sides.
• They are finishing up the animation solution for the current cowl so that we can return to the old animations when not wearing it
• Wolfgang and Wanda will have separate updates with new tunings to go with the new tiers of rifts
• They are also going to add more pickup sounds in the future and audio qols  (Thanks @-Nick-)

 

And thats all for now.

Thanks to the developers for the stream, and i look forward to next updates stream. (And the Rotwood stream tomorrow!) 

 

 

[-Nick-]

They are also going to add more pickup sounds in the future and audio qols

[sudoku]

7 minutes ago, -Nick- said:

They are also going to add more pickup sounds in the future and audio qols

ah, thanks i missed that one. neat!

[Squidyfoo]

2 hours ago, sudoku said:

Chair sitting is just a teaser for a lot more things to come in future updates (these features will be more involved than just an animation)

When I heard this in the stream one thing came to mind... Don't Starve + Sitting = Nightmare throne? So maybe something Nightmare throne related will happen eventually. Also the stage play came to mind. Perhaps we get to watch plays in comfy chairs? This is my least likely scenario but maybe chairs for a meeting with whichever side you choose (When of course that eventually happens). Ok last one sounds dumb to be honest. I don't know why I'm making a big deal out of chairs.

[Valase]

2 hours ago, sudoku said:

Chair sitting is just a teaser for a lot more things to come in future updates (these features will be more involved than just an animation)

Oh Yeah, I can't wait to play musical chairs to defeat THEM in the final act.

Jokes aside, I've been loving the new content!

[Shosuko]

I think this patch went over better then last patch because less people base in the caves, so less people felt like their homes were being invaded in an unfair way.  They mentioned updating the powers of the armor sets and some of the items, this gives me hope they will also revisit the invasive mechanics.  A game doesn't have to destroy your world to be "challenging."

I'm glad to hear they are going to have more different armor sets come from these things.  They stated they recognize having 2 sets that fully cover the characters visual features isn't a thing everyone is going to like and that they will include less character obfuscating options as they add to this content.  My typical play style is to fit the world, and how I approach the world with the character I play and I would hate to see the image of my character wiped like that.  I also recognize that many people will like that these armor sets that obfuscate their character, and am glad that will be an option for them, so long as it is not the "only" option going forward.

I was also worried about how the planar damage system reduces the strengths of some characters, homogenizing the cast mechanically as well as visually.  They answered that 2 characters by name will receive updates specifically for this new content (Wolfgang and Wanda) which is something I've really hoped was in the plans here.  Since this arc started I hoped it would be a launch pad for set of tweaks across different characters touching up specific issues with newer content - things like Woodie's forms and the struggle of moon storms, bernie being unusable in lunacy, etc.  If they are doing this, I hope some choices start being made early enough to smooth out the transition so they can approach this content ready for it!

I'm still anxious this is all ramping up like a NG+ mode.  I've yet to see a NG+ mode in any game that didn't significantly warp the game in the worst ways, pushing players to use only certain ultra efficient "meta choices" and reducing play options to the fewest things that actually still work - almost always play styles that favor the least interaction.  Its ruins the re-play value of games when you can't plateau and just enjoy the game.  I mean, literally unless it is a pvp game you will either plateau or the game ramps up until it is literally unplayable.

I really enjoyed the chair, and the visitor we get to see in it.  The design of the visuals AND interaction with the shadow rifts and their mobs are much better this time.  They mentioned more things will come from these rifts...  kinda makes me worried - if these start to require certain prep, but you're not allowed to know what you get until you're there, it's going to be a big pain in the butt dealing with it.  I'm not wanting more Toadstool bosses where it requires a whole setup but can spawn in multiple areas forcing you to repeat your setup if you want to challenge him multiple times.  Doing all of that for every place where rifts might show up just so you will have the right tool for the job sounds really bad.

I would say at the end of THIS Rhymes with Play I'm more optimistic about the future of this arc.  Still anxious, but we'll see as things progress.

[_zwb]

7 hours ago, sudoku said:

• Wolfgang and Wanda will have separate updates with new tunings to go with the new tiers of rifts

Hopefully Wanda won't get destroyed by planar damage anymore after that

[Fill-Lips]

7 hours ago, sudoku said:

• They want to add more variations of lunar mobs - this is the reason the brightshade spawn rate is so high at the moment because of the lack of future mobs

That's nice, just having one mob just be there, slowly patroling and the other being the more obnoxious brightshade compared to the shadow version is a little disappointing.

Also I hope we can sip tea while we are sitting, all snooty and snobby.

[Memetan]

Just Wolfgang and Wanda will have changes?! I mean there are others character that really need some changes like "the catapult girl", "the fail range character", "the furry Canadian with moon allergie"... and that's since before Wanda Release and Wolfgang ReRework.

[Zeklo]

2 minutes ago, Memetan said:

Just Wolfgang and Wanda will have changes?! I mean there are others character that really need some changes like "the catapult girl", "the fail range character", "the furry Canadian with moon allergie"... and that's since before Wanda Release and Wolfgang ReRework.

Those two are the ones the community are concerned with in particular—and brought up—because they effectively have anti-synergy with the new content. I don't take the comment to mean tweaks are exclusive to them. Rather that the devs are aware and acknowledged that specific concern.

For all we know, the bump these two will receive will be compounded into them 'picking a side' like all characters will be able to do eventually.

[sudoku]

1 hour ago, Fill-Lips said:

That's nice, just having one mob just be there, slowly patroling and the other being the more obnoxious brightshade compared to the shadow version is a little disappointing.

Also I hope we can sip tea while we are sitting, all snooty and snobby.

hopefully we get the hinted at bosses for both of the rifts next update

[Juanasdf]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Hopefully Wanda won't get destroyed by planar damage anymore after that

This, and I'd love if we had to actively work for that planar defense / damage instead of being passive.

What I mean is, I hope we get something like a 30 second cooldown watch (with a fast animation) that gives a non-stackable planar damage/defense buff during its cooldown, which you'd have to use throughout the fights instead of just adding another armor for her and call it a day

[Capybara007]

The fair thing is that if wolfgang and wanda receive a buff through these updates because they strenght is now homogeneous, shouldnt they also do that with other characters? its hard to give an example because most items are combat oriented but what if they add an axe that is simply extremely good at farming trees? wouldnt they want to buff woodie or maxwell or wurt in that case?

[Juanasdf]

11 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

The fair thing is that if wolfgang and wanda receive a buff through these updates because they strenght is now homogeneous, shouldnt they also do that with other characters? its hard to give an example because most items are combat oriented but what if they add an axe that is simply extremely good at farming trees? wouldnt they want to buff woodie or maxwell or wurt in that case?

If they haven't done it since moonglass axes were released I don't think they will. Besides, It's not like they are worse than using them... and also bearger exists so...

[Capybara007]

bearger exists and nobody complains, now its a problem that wanda's and wolfgang's powers are overshadowed?

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

Those two are the ones the community are concerned with in particular—and brought up—because they effectively have anti-synergy with the new content. I don't take the comment to mean tweaks are exclusive to them. Rather that the devs are aware and acknowledged that specific concern.

For all we know, the bump these two will receive will be compounded into them 'picking a side' like all characters will be able to do eventually.

I was actually thinking their “Tweaks” would just be very very basic- I mean VERY Basic, as in like they’ll be able to use pure Brilliance & Husks to craft a new item that’s exclusive to them, that helps them combat said new content.

Aka- A BrightShade Barbell & Yo-Yo.

Cause I highly highly doubt they’re gonna do much more than that.

[sudoku]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I was actually thinking their “Tweaks” would just be very very basic- I mean VERY Basic, as in like they’ll be able to use pure Brilliance & Husks to craft a new item that’s exclusive to them, that helps them combat said new content.

Aka- A BrightShade Barbell & Yo-Yo.

Cause I highly highly doubt they’re gonna do much more than that.

i could see them giving wanda a new watch with planar damage and probably just giving Wolfgang innate planar damage when in mighty form

26 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

The fair thing is that if wolfgang and wanda receive a buff through these updates because they strenght is now homogeneous, shouldnt they also do that with other characters? its hard to give an example because most items are combat oriented but what if they add an axe that is simply extremely good at farming trees? wouldnt they want to buff woodie or maxwell or wurt in that case?

honestly theres a lot of characters i could see getting planar tweaks:

Walter would get new planar slingshot ammo

Wendy would get new planar potions for Abigail

Willow should probably have Bernie deal increased dmg to shadow aligned mobs (like in her short)

Woodie should definitley have lunar defense while in wereforms

Max should probably have shadow dmg on his clones and to increased dmg to lunar aligned mobs

Wormwood should have innate lunar defense

those are the tweaks that make the most sense to me lorewise

[chirsg]

9 hours ago, sudoku said:

• The prompts to opt into rift content seems to make it clear that increased difficulty is the endgame goal

difficulty =/= base destruction
I hate terraria. I feel like I was burned by the game, but only because of the incessant power creep of the weapons and armor, but also cosmetic choices in the block design that has stayed consistent for a decade, which destroyed many of my builds.
Despite my absolute disdain for terraria and my nightly prayer including that Re-Logic fails as a company, A fair amount of the progression stayed difficult without sabotaging builds you had in game.
New mobs would spawn, debuffs would be applied, and new dangers would arise that you couldn't particularly help, but most of which did not sabotage your legacy which are your builds. For the most part anyway.
And even for base destruction, there were clear cut counters and a telegraphed announcement to the event in question that jeopardized your survival.
I am extremely biased against terraria and will state once more that I pray every night for the downfall of Re-logic, but even I have to admit, they did things correctly when it comes to difficulty that doesn't center on destroying what you've built... Other than artistic choices which I disagree with and as a result, have boycotted the game.

 

 

9 hours ago, sudoku said:

• Acid rain is currently tuned down until they rework some of the equipment in a later update

Acid rain is a pain in the pig skin. The reward for it is... Well, there's utility for it as beefalo are a hog for salt licks, and if salt licks had calories, I swear to christ, my beefalo would no longer be a rider and would be pudgy.
As it stands, acid rain is in line with my personal design philosophy, despite it being applied in game in such a way that is a little more troublesome and an annoyance. 
If you main wickerbottom, there is literally no point to activating rifts. But whatever. Consistent with how I'd prefer the game becoming more difficult.

 

 

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

• They want to add more variations of lunar mobs - this is the reason the brightshade spawn rate is so high at the moment because of the lack of future mobs

Here's where I could cut the klei developers some slack. It's probably REALLY hard to design mobs. Especially with such an expectation they're probably placing on themselves to ensure everything is VERY original. We have gotten literal sprinkles of mobs in the rifts update. I mean, they're extremely modest in quantity, but I'll give it to them, they're original.
Originality is great. It really is, but originality is a little overrated.
I don't want to be the psychoanalysis guy because no one likes the psychoanalysis guy, but at the risk of becoming that, I will accept that responsibility. I think klei is a little afraid of backlash on reskinning mobs with this pseudo "hard mode" thing we've got.
I actually wouldn't hate it so much if pig men during lunar storms had a supplement to their power and a modest artistic flair that didn't need to change that much.
If they did this, I could see the community screech in unison that klei is indulging in lazy game design and shortcuts.
The thing is, every game studio does this and depending on certain design choices and balance, it typically works well.
I don't hate difficulty scaling of mobs depending on the context of the event in the world.

To get rid of boulders, I'd even reluctantly accept a poison debuff applied to a player if struck by a shadow splumonkey which applied 10 damage per millisecond. 

 

 

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

• They are doing work to the umbralla so that you can activate it in a way so you will be able use your hand slot (coming soon)

lol what the hell?

 

 

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

• Future armor wont all be helmets and will likely return back to showing face now that there is a helmet for both sides.

Void cowl showing the eyes only was a great bit of individuality. I don't like the uniformity of the new design. It really is a shame. They hit the mark with that. Even if there were inconsistencies with skins, that shouldn't have been eliminated. I mourn the cowl change. 

 

 

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

• Wolfgang and Wanda will have separate updates with new tunings to go with the new tiers of rifts

I weep for wigfrid. They hate my girl so much, it's unreal. The moment we get what is supposed to be a champion of feminism and they maul her in the most delicate way.

10 hours ago, sudoku said:

They are also going to add more pickup sounds in the future and audio qols

I didn't say it in the rhymes with play stream, but I think a cool qol would be hats not losing durability on hunchback mobs. 
It would be a great addition that would not affect balance, but I'm trying to come up with a proper campaign to further this agenda. It's a good idea and would benefit the builders of the game. 

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Juanasdf said:

This, and I'd love if we had to actively work for that planar defense / damage instead of being passive.

What I mean is, I hope we get something like a 30 second cooldown watch (with a fast animation) that gives a non-stackable planar damage/defense buff during its cooldown, which you'd have to use throughout the fights instead of just adding another armor for her and call it a day

Really cool concept! would be nice if both sides give her new watches like this

[Fufuji]

45 minutes ago, sudoku said:

i could see them giving wanda a new watch with planar damage and probably just giving Wolfgang innate planar damage when in mighty form

honestly theres a lot of characters i could see getting planar tweaks:

Walter would get new planar slingshot ammo

Wendy would get new planar potions for Abigail

Willow should probably have Bernie deal increased dmg to shadow aligned mobs (like in her short)

Woodie should definitley have lunar defense while in wereforms

Max should probably have shadow dmg on his clones and to increased dmg to lunar aligned mobs

Wormwood should have innate lunar defense

those are the tweaks that make the most sense to me lorewise

Are these come from the RWP streaming?

[sudoku]

1 minute ago, Fufuji said:

Are these come from the RWP streaming?

nah, just wishful thinking. Only Wanda and Wolfgang are confirmed to be getting adjustments for rift content

[_zwb]

6 minutes ago, chirsg said:

The moment we get what is supposed to be a champion of feminism and they maul her in the most delicate way.

Wanda is female... right?

Also Wigfrid isn't that hurt by the new planar stuff since her damage isn't that high

[-Variant]

6 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Even if there were inconsistencies with skins, that shouldn't have been eliminated.

This played a factor into it but wasn't the sole reason for them being changed.
There were countless layering issues and problems caused by the various character faces and head shapes, alongside not being mod character friendly.

They did note in the stream that the current animation changes (Wolfgang, hats not having the detail of flying off in some anims) is a temporary fix until they can refine the system some more. Faces may or may not return depending on how much work is put into them in the future.

[Masked Koopa]

I do hope that the existing mobs of the constant are not rendered obsolete by the new threats. I think it'd be nice if there was some scalability for the more basic units like hounds, pigs, merms, spiders, etc. Whether that be through mutation or being able to gear them up (in the case of hireable mobs). I understand not buffing up literally every threat, but at the same time I think those mobs are iconic enough to DST that they deserve some love.

[chirsg]

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Wanda is female... right?

Wigfrid is OG girlboss in this game. 
She's a flawed character, and in spite of her flaws, is the coolest implementation of a strong independent woman who don't need no man.
She isn't a Mary Sue. That's what makes Wigfrid special. 

She is hurt dramatically by the planar balancing.