Baark0 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 How in the world did this mechanic make it to live servers? The spawn radius for pirate raids massive, I was trying to get a fish caught by crab king and it just so happens that my crab king spawned in a location that is covered by the pirate raid spawn radius (thank god I fought crab king already, I could not imagine trying to fight crab king only for monkeys to come in and ruin everything). Spoiler Honestly I could deal with the monkeys if it weren't for the fact they drop those stupid trinkets, this is the single reason I am shocked pirate raids were released as they were. If you kill the monkeys, you're punished by losing an inventory slot or by having to go to the moon quay and give the stupid queen bananas. If you don't, you get your boat ransacked (and possibly masts destroyed, idk, wiki still says raiders break them but it could be outdated). This mechanic feels like I'm being punished for making a mistake and have to make a choice, which is fine, nothing wrong with mechanics like this, but what mistake did I make to warrant this punishment? I guess you could argue that the mistake I made was being near the island, but that just doesn't make any sense at all, especially before you discover the moon quay's location, then you're getting punished for pretty much no reason, guess you should've just known the island was there. Sorry for rant, needed to complain about this mechanic because holy hell is it terrible, up there with disease and wildfires. Edit: my issue isn't the lack of ways to solve raids, it's the fact that killing the raiders punishes you, and the fact that the raiders come to you. Regular monkeys dropping trinkets is fine, you are going out of your way to kill the monkeys, raiders are going out of their way to harass you and you are being punished for trying to defend yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shosuko Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 fr - I really hope Klei comes back to re-work them b/c right now they just suck. My suggestion for re-work is have the pirates drop a treasure map, similar to what you find in bottles but with a better loot table. When you retrieve and crack this treasure open you have a chance to get the curse. This way fighting off pirates doesn't punish you, which is proper b/c you don't really have a choice. If you fail to fight them off, they can ransack your boat in leui of killing / sinking you. Fair enough. THEN if you take the pirate's treasure THEN you get their curse (possibly) and need to give tribute to their queen. Make this change and adjust the number of monkeys on the boat to be relative to the number of players on the target boat, and I think they could hit the whole ocean like hound waves of the sea and we'd be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popian Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Maybe it's a curse? But... 1 hour ago, Baark0 said: what mistake did I make to warrant this punishment? Not sailing with bananas. Salt can help keep them readily available. Dropping 1 for each monkey including the captain will have them approach and leave gently and not take anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baark0 Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 13 minutes ago, Popian said: Maybe it's a curse? But... Not sailing with bananas. Salt can help keep them readily available. Dropping 1 for each monkey including the captain will have them approach and leave gently and not take anything else. Wait you need multiple bananas? I thought you only needed one, at which point the raiders would all leave. Regardless, does sailing without one specific item sound like a good reason to punish players? I say no, and you could argue that you need a bunch of items to sail anyways, but there are a plethora of options, oars vs sails for moving, firepit vs lantern vs boat illuminator for light, but raids really only have 2 options. Either bring a relatively forgettable food item from the ruins, or bring a pan flute and drop whatever you were doing to run away and despawn the raiders. Not to mention you're bringing these items on the off chance that raiders spawn, at least with things like food and light it's a guarantee that darkness/hunger will be an issue, with raiders you might just be wasting your time gathering resources only for them to not show up, and I think that perfectly summarizes raids: a giant waste of time. Really, all Klei has to do to make raids tolerable is remove the stupid trinket drop from raiders (I'd prefer if it were removed entirely, but Klei added Wonkey so it won't be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamehun20 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 43 minutes ago, Baark0 said: only have 2 options You can also burn their boat with a fire staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krotux Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 They're fine as they are. Disable them in your settings maybe idk. Plenty of ways to deal with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popian Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Baark0 said: Wait you need multiple bananas? I thought you only needed one, at which point the raiders would all leave. You can do 1 banana but other monkeys that board can take other items and the captain will try to ram your ship if it doesn't see a banana when they want to leave. 1 hour ago, Baark0 said: does sailing without one specific item sound like a good reason to punish players? It's a toll to test preparedness? There's also placing a bumper or bringing tree jam and hitting their boat with a cannon. The warning hints the direction that they are coming from. It'd be nice if the Strident Trident could also scare them away, whether by having them "hear" it or by allowing for the geysers to spawn under a moving boat so you don't have to time it to hit the side (which currently does not scare them away). The problem with most non-character-specific ways to deal with them is that they're rather "costly" if it's not set up to farm them nor by sacrificing boat space. The Fire Staff would be great if there was some way to prevent the monkeys from boarding your boat until it sinks so you don't have to worry about losing stuff to fire. The easiest might be killing them with Scalemail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Rage Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, Krotux said: They're fine as they are. Disable them in your settings maybe idk. Plenty of ways to deal with them Indeed. The ocean is dangerous. Partly it is what makes it fun. After realizing how many ways there are to deal with pirate raids getting wrecked by monkeys never felt unfair, simply as if the risk I took before entering the ocean didn't pay off. A big part of the ocean experience is testing how few preparations you can get away with before getting punished. Do I really need a sail? Shall I fill the boat with Tooth Traps? Is a stack of bananas a better option? If so, how do I keep them from spoiling if I am going to sail for many days? Is it viable to make a second boat and tow it? Can I simply use a Fire Staff instead and hope to repel the monkeys before they wreck me? Maybe a fellow bunny man sailor with a Cookie Cutter Cap will do the trick? And so on. It makes sailing great fun. PS. Overpreparing is even worse than underpreparing. Use your creativity and you will get far on the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I wish you could skin the monkeys and wear their face to disguise among them just so I wouldn’t have to deal with them again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-met Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 People complained there's no reason to visit the ocean. The cursed necklaces were the answer to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 16 minutes ago, Well-met said: People complained there's no reason to visit the ocean. The cursed necklaces were the answer to that. You go to the ocean to get cursed so you can go to the moon quay to get rid of it. Big brain moment. Spoiler The issue is you can get everything you need from the main...continent? Whatever it's called, you can survive without ever going on to the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 10 hours ago, Baark0 said: (I'd prefer if it were removed entirely, but Klei added Wonkey so it won't be) You could have the character be turned into Wonkey upon digging the X Marks the Spot without having your leftmost inventory slot be molested by the Trinkets. I would then also ramp up the value of the Pirate Stash to more than just a recipe for a weird hat and some items that the Powder Monkeys "stole" from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popian Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 17 hours ago, Baark0 said: (and possibly masts destroyed, idk, wiki still says raiders break them but it could be outdated) About this, monkeys will destroy regular masts if they're open (you are trying to escape after they have already boarded) from being too lazy to heave ho. They'll close Malbatross sails that are open. On the topic of avoiding them, you can despawn them by promptly rowing/sailing in the opposite direction of the warning, so that's a cheap option if you have the opportunity. It's also possible to outpace them after they have started pursuing if you sail with at least one Malbatross sail or 2 regular sails, but that will take more time. 7 hours ago, _zwb said: The issue is you can get everything you need from the main...continent? Whatever it's called, you can survive without ever going on to the ocean. Not everything needs [OP incentive], sometimes it's about [overcoming obstacle] or [saving on resources]. The ocean has a lot of useful resources compared to the classical biomes, which are also filled with a lot of resources that you are probably not going to interact with. Some differences are that navigation is not as simple on a boat as it is on land and some places have no set connections to other parts, which may get in the way of the "I want [resource] from [destination]" mindset. That isn't to say that there shouldn't be any incentives. I would welcome new crafts/items/mobs that offer interesting interactions that fill their own niches, and it looks like they are doing that, but maybe not at a pace that matches players consuming it. There's even some good in having these raids, in that you can flare them near base to use the monkeys as sidegrade workers without having to go to Moon Quay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADM Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Imo all that trinket, curse and queen thing is not that wonkey, I could see it to stay without consequent rework and I'd even like to see Wonkey to be deeper character to play as with the rest of monkeys or other unique features while remaining the cursed one (far from being a priority). But there's a whole bunch of other things I dislike about the pirate raids and yeah the absurd range is actually THE thing that need to be changed because it's just not raisonnable and so up to randomness. The range should be considerably reduced and have them made frequent, so you know you're at risk if you pass by the island, and DO know that you're near if you haven't noticed it and not... in a waterlogged biome 10 screens away or fighting some boss yknow ? I tend to wonder if the reason they're really not looking into this is that anyway players don't seem to pay attention too much about the Moon Quay after getting access to the blueprints and plants. So wouldn't centralising it more make it only less of an effect of the game ? Well that's because of the absence of stuff BY the island's waters that we "avoid it", we could be so inclined to do pirate clashes if there was treasures by the quay and other things to return for whenever ready. I don't dislike the raids on their own so much aside of the Prime Mates on steroid that is too unfair for certain players... but that's mostly how I feel about them as a whole, they don't have an ideal purpose even as a danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baark0 Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, Popian said: About this, monkeys will destroy regular masts if they're open (you are trying to escape after they have already boarded) from being too lazy to heave ho. They'll close Malbatross sails that are open. On the topic of avoiding them, you can despawn them by promptly rowing/sailing in the opposite direction of the warning, so that's a cheap option if you have the opportunity. It's also possible to outpace them after they have started pursuing if you sail with at least one Malbatross sail or 2 regular sails, but that will take more time. I literally never knew they even had the warning had a direction, could you explain this? As for despawning them, I know that is a thing, but there are scenarios where you can't despawn them, such as mentioned in my OP, fighting crab king, and even if I'm not doing anything important, it's still super god damn annoying having to drop whatever I'm doing because I got unlucky and a pirate raid spawned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell_winters Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Pirate monkey is a great example of why you shouldn't overcomplicate game mechanics. They were a neat idea that could've been fun. Monkeys that raid your boat, you fight them and get their loot. That's it. But no, they had to add another system on top of that, which completely ruined the interaction. I think we'd have a lot less complaints if the raids didn't drop any trinkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popian Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 19 minutes ago, Baark0 said: I literally never knew they even had the warning had a direction, could you explain this? You might need a stereo sound device? Can test it out by flaring a couple of raids and seeing if there is a relation. 21 minutes ago, Baark0 said: As for despawning them, I know that is a thing, but there are scenarios where you can't despawn them, such as mentioned in my OP, fighting crab king, and even if I'm not doing anything important, it's still super god damn annoying having to drop whatever I'm doing because I got unlucky and a pirate raid spawned. For Crab King you are doing enough prep that bringing some bananas wouldn't hurt. For anything else they are meant to be disruptive like sharks and hounds, but now you have more options you can pick the best one to deal with that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baark0 Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 37 minutes ago, Popian said: For anything else they are meant to be disruptive like sharks and hounds, but now you have more options you can pick the best one to deal with that situation. At least with hounds though it's guaranteed spawn after a certain amount of time has passed, with monkeys I might waste a bunch of time getting bananas only for them to not show up. As for sharks, while they are annoying, they're still much more manageable than having your boat get knocked around, boat patches coming undone, items being stolen, and having to kite upwards of 5 enemies in an incredibly cramped space, and if you kill any of them you permanently lose an inventory slot until you visit their stupid island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_Mentos Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 I believe they were created as more of a nuisance and make the ocean more chaotic than it is. My only complaint for not bringing more variety to those raids cause they should really have cannons if there's more menacing sloops instead of more monkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirsg Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 All I can say is, Shipwrecked was an amazing batch of additional content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB Marioni Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 There are a lot of ways to deal with raids. If brining a banana on deck is too much for you, what we always do is bring a couple stacks of rot. The monkeys will prioritize items on the ground before chests/ player inventory. So as long as you have enoough rot to fill out their pockets, its just like they visited you and leave. If you find yourself having your boat destroyed often due to their boat bumping into you, if you play like we do where we always bring a stack of basic resources wherever we go, you can easily craft a grass raft as soon as you hear the pirate warning and go to the raft so they bump that instead of your expensive boats. Honestly, pirate raids aren't event a threat if you know how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 58 minutes ago, BB Marioni said: There are a lot of ways to deal with raids. If brining a banana on deck is too much for you, what we always do is bring a couple stacks of rot. The monkeys will prioritize items on the ground before chests/ player inventory. So as long as you have enoough rot to fill out their pockets, its just like they visited you and leave. If you find yourself having your boat destroyed often due to their boat bumping into you, if you play like we do where we always bring a stack of basic resources wherever we go, you can easily craft a grass raft as soon as you hear the pirate warning and go to the raft so they bump that instead of your expensive boats. Honestly, pirate raids aren't event a threat if you know how they work. I think what people aren’t understanding is that Klei did not expect you to turn a “boat” into a moving base with every structure you can cram on it.. that’s why when the pirates DO raid you they bring an additional Boat you can hijack should yours become wrecked. It fits the “Theme” of Pirates, they attacked and sunk each others ships, claiming their ships as their own etc.. But when players are investing a ton of resources into a boat, they can’t get that pirate life feeling. You can sail out on a Grass Raft for example then Hi-Jack their Wooden ones when they come to attack. Wearing a Pirate hat (bandana, Tricon, Polly Rogers) having a Moon Quay Banner on your Boat, And holding a Wooden Cutless should’ve also worked similar to Wurts Clever Disguise allowing you to trespass through their waters unharmed cause they’re tricked into thinking your one of them. In Addition, Killed Monkeys could drop a Banana like a Merm drops a Pet Fish. Klei could’ve made this content FUN rather than being a forgotten Afterthought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, BB Marioni said: So as long as you have enoough rot to fill out their pockets, its just like they visited you and leave. I'm not gonna go on a boat with 100 stacks of Rot, not even with Wormwood. I'd just bring the damn 5 Bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: I think what people aren’t understanding is that Klei did not expect you to turn a “boat” into a moving base with every structure you can cram on it. It's the exact opposite, klei fully intend to make a boat semi-permanent base initially. Then they add a boss that only attacks your boat and break this design philosophy. Well done klei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brago-sama Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 1 hour ago, bloopah said: I'm not gonna go on a boat with 100 stacks of Rot, "Wow bubbles your pockets are bursting. Show us all the good loot you got from the talking plant" Monke: Visible distress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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