This Beta Concerns Me

[JazzyGames]

Hey, just wanted to quickly drop a note here regarding the current state of the beta, as someone who recently brought their 4,000 day survival world into the beta branch.

Regarding the new gear, I am enjoying pretty much all of it. The new weapon is quite good as a dark sword alternative in certain situations, and I’ve been using it a ton against the shadow-aligned bosses. The new multi-use tools are quite useful and I appreciate that all this stuff can be crafted from just two resources. The armor is underwhelming and I’m saddened that it’s not quite good enough to use against shadow-aligned bosses for the extra damage, but I’m sure that future updates in this arc will make the armor more important.

What concerns me the most about this update is the spawning mechanics of deadly brightshades. Basically, they are currently able to infest any crop or farm plant in the world, and they seem to target areas that have recently been loaded by a player.

On my set piece for Lord of the Fruit Flies I got three deadly brightshades spawned, even though the rift was halfway across the world. Shortly after I lured LoFF away and killed the brightshades another three infested the exact same area.

At this point I unfortunately cannot keep this content active if it is going to be a continual threat to literally every surface build I have containing decor plants. I don’t think the brightshades should be able to travel so far away from a rift to infest plants, and if this remains the mechanic then we need a way of preventing the infestations.

I have seen the argument made here a few times now, that megabasers are not looking for new late-game challenges that threaten their base. Speaking strictly for myself, I absolutely welcome new challenges and threats. I am always thankful for the opportunity to mix up my workflow in the late-game and I don’t shy away from new content. Heck, I play with wildfires on because at this point we have so many options of avoiding them.

The issue with this new content is that there is no way to control or stop the infestation. There are no options, all you can do is wait for it to end and then hope you have time to clean up the mess before the next rift opens. This is hardly fair or challenging and punishes players who make it to this point in the game.

If the developers were going for a hard mode akin to Terraria where the world corrupts faster then there should have been the equivalent of a Clentaminator added alongside this change. Until they add such a mechanism into the game I am unfortunately compelled to disable wild rift spawning to protect my builds.

I know that Klei is aware of this issue and look forward to seeing how they tackle it. Hoping that comes sooner than later so we can experience the new content without fear of losing our work!

[maxwell_winters]

27 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

it is going to be a continual threat to literally every surface build I have containing decor plants.

I don't think that the threats should be balanced around "decorative" plants. They are decorative only by your perception. They actually have functions in the game and yield resources. If megabasers need decorative plants so much, I'd rather Klei added purely decorative plants that Brightshades cannot infest.

[SomebodyRandom]

3 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I don't think that the threats should be balanced around "decorative" plants. They are decorative only by your perception. They actually have functions in the game and yield resources. If megabasers need decorative plants so much, I'd rather Klei added purely decorative plants that Brightshades cannot infest.

They don't need to make transplanted plants unable to be infested, they could just make it so Brightshade Gestalts don't travel half the world to specifically target transplanted plants because it's absolutely ridiculous that they don't stick to plants near the rift, where you're actually meant to engage with the content.

[JazzyGames]

Allow me to reiterate: I have no problem with dangers that threaten builds. I have a problem with dangers that threaten builds that we have no way of avoiding. Telling me that the majority of my builds are now forfeit because I chose to decorate with plants is not going to get me super excited about new content.

[ADM]

2 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I don't think that the threats should be balanced around "decorative" plants. They are decorative only by your perception. They actually have functions in the game and yield resources. If megabasers need decorative plants so much, I'd rather Klei added purely decorative plants that Brightshades cannot infest.

Can't say no to more plants, decorative or not because in the megabaser book it's always decorative... but I'm just looking to say that making the difference between decorative, wild, or farming plants would be rather easy to interpret and some of that is already done (between player owned / wild), doing so for plants that are actively used or used to be, and not just like randomly picked or fully ignored is doable even if that is not quite the whole issue as discussed many times already.

[Mike23Ua]

I honestly feel like the rifts should be set to off by default with the option to toggle them On in world Gen settings if you choose.

They shouldn’t try to retrofit into players 4000+ day worlds at all, and I do deeply sympathize with those who’s worlds will be messed up by it.  

I also think it would be neat if we could “Wax” things- turning them PURELY Decorative, no longer yielding any type of resources.

Like a Taxidermy in Ark Survival Evolved, it’s just a Statue of a Dinosaur so other Dinosaurs won’t attempt to attack it.

[sudoku]

I mean if klei were to add a craftable item like a brightshade repellent and you needed to routinely spray your plants to deter brightshades from spawning would this solve the problem?

[SomebodyRandom]

1 minute ago, sudoku said:

I mean if klei were to add a craftable item like a brightshade repellent and you needed to routinely spray your plants to deter brightshades from spawning would this solve the problem?

I would prefer the effect was permanent and it also turned the plants purely decorative but it would at least be something.

[Dextops]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I honestly feel like the rifts should be set to off by default with the option to toggle them On in world Gen settings if you choose.

that's not a fix to the problem, it's a band-aid on a cracked dam

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, SomebodyRandom said:

I would prefer the effect was permanent and it also turned the plants purely decorative but it would at least be something.

This is probably the most elegant solution. It doesn't even have to be super expensive to make, since you sacrifice your plant's resources anyway.

[sudoku]

2 minutes ago, SomebodyRandom said:

I would prefer the effect was permanent and it also turned the plants purely decorative but it would at least be something.

maybe instead make it a new type of fertilizer, that way its permanent as long as you arent harvesting the plant

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, JazzyGames said:

. I don’t think the brightshades should be able to travel so far away from a rift to infest plants, and if this remains the mechanic then we need a way of preventing the infestations.

I don't think limiting the brightshades to be in an area around the rifts would be a good idea. It wouldn't necessarily solve the problem with brightshades attacking builds (since if a rift spawns next to one, all of the brigthshades that spawn are going to hit that area), and would also mean that some areas would be much worse off farming the mats then others (ex: hitting a rockyland with no plants around to infest).

I think the brightshades targeting areas across the map is okay in terms of a periodic mechanic. What is not okay is how frequent the brightshades will target decorations, as you mentioned. I really do feel we need a way to stop the brightshades from targeting specific areas. I should not need to question "Is putting 2-3 lunar saplings in my saladmander pen a good idea?" out of fear that a brightshade wave might hit the pen and absolutely destroy the build.

Regarding solutions, a brightshade beacon seems to be the most popular, and honestly I would be down if it was a lightning rod upgrade you applied to them. You already need lighting rods around most builds anyways, so upgrading them to also deter brightshades would be a decent solution without having to worry about fitting another "protection" structure in builds, in my opinion.

[JazzyGames]

Yeah I’m down to convert plants into non-functioning decor, just let me do it too stacks of items at a time!

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I don't think limiting the brightshades to be in an area around the rifts would be a good idea. It wouldn't necessarily solve the problem with brightshades attacking builds (since if a rift spawns next to one, all of the brigthshades that spawn are going to hit that area), and would also mean that some areas would be much worse off farming the mats then others (ex: hitting a rockyland with no plants around to infest).

What if we were able to shutdown the rift if it opened in a dangerous place? Then we could better control when and where they spawned, when they spawn in the wild, let it grow and release plants into the surrounding area. Seems to me the issue with plants spawning anywhere is, even if you want to hunt them, you have no idea where to even start looking.

I’d also be ok with a beacon but I’d much prefer being able to shut off the rift if I don’t like the location.

[Mike23Ua]

23 minutes ago, Dextops said:

that's not a fix to the problem, it's a band-aid on a cracked dam

That’s the thing though, no one really knows how to “fix” the problem..

#1- People have suggested that they only spawn in a particular Biome- This makes the Wild Rifts not so “Wild” and actually boring and predictable thrown into a completely OPTIONAL Biome you can Ignore, same as Lunar Island or Moon Quay.

#2-People have suggested a way to “Trick” the Mobs into spawning where you want them to, which I prefer over Option One, But.. It just turns the content into being a Hostile Flare or Bee Queen- Something YOU Summon to You when your completely Ready for it..

#3- People have suggested a way to close the rifts by feeding them a Resource, this is interesting and would be like closing the portals in Zombie Army 4… I really like this Idea A Lot, but it also adds a problem to the game.. and immediately provides the Solution to that problem.

#4- People have suggested that they don’t target plants that have been dug up and relocated, this is Dumb.. I would then just dig up the plants to remove the “Wild” Tag, and Replant them back down as “Player Owned” this solves absolutely nothing, adds no additional challenge to the game, and is frankly.. the worst of all the suggestions so far.

#5- Have them toggled to “Off” on Default World Settings that the player can optionally Toggle “On” should they choose to Opt Into it, and don’t try to retrofit it at all into existing worlds people have spent a long time building Megabases within.

And finally: This is only the first update of the new “Taking Root” Story Arch so we have no idea what else is actually planned or for that matter, how deep into the soil these roots will reach.

[dzzydzzy]

Here's an idea for protecting plants: add a new functional turf. Something that is composed of either brightshades or pure brilliance (so that you can only protect after engaging with the new content) and then anything planted over the turf cannot have Brightshades spawn on it. Maybe even adding this utility to some existing turfs such as scaled turf.

[lowercase skye]

Adding a structure to repel brightshades specifically sounds like such a band-aid solution that doesn't even solve the problem of it interfering with builds: after all, maybe there won't be brightshades on decorative plants, but there WILL be the same exact structure placed periodically across an entire base, in ADDITION to lightning rods... Of course this wouldn't be as much of a problem if there were skins, but I find it doubtful Klei would be adding the amount of skins required to have some brightshade-repellent structure blend in with the hundreds of existing decor options. As a megabaser myself, I already find myself turning off lightning in the late-game because of how big and tacky lightning rods are and how there's not a single skin to blend them into more natural builds, and I can't help but feel like a blue lunar-themed structure for brightshades would be just as bad, even if it was an upgrade to lightning rods that made them tacky and blue.

[goblinball]

41 minutes ago, dzzydzzy said:

Here's an idea for protecting plants: add a new functional turf. Something that is composed of either brightshades or pure brilliance (so that you can only protect after engaging with the new content) and then anything planted over the turf cannot have Brightshades spawn on it. Maybe even adding this utility to some existing turfs such as scaled turf.

I don’t like this idea, since either way builds are screwed over since now you HAVE to use this turf on all of your builds with decorative plants. My personal favorite solution so far is the lightning rod upgrade mentioned earlier in the thread, I really hope that gets added.

[-Variant]

I am running out of ideas that'll satisfy most parties.
Seems like every idea put on the table has been shrugged off as unworthy of implementing.

I stand with Jazzy on the fact that I more than welcome these threats to bases, and I'd personally be upset if they were to either be subdued entirely and/or pushed into such an easily controlled manner they're not even a threat anymore.

I've seen equal parties both for, and against repellents, closing the rifts, force relocating, shooting them with a Wagstaff gun.

I admit, I'm a bit worried about the update, not in the destructive sense but in the... Moon Quay sense.
I loved pirate raids, I think their early iteration was SO CLOSE to being perfect, just a few tweaks and changes and it could've been perfect. I got pretty swept under the rug and left in an... not so fortunate state that I don't think anyone ended up really liking.

 

I might entirely put my faith in Klei to choose what they think is best in the long run. I'm seeing a lot of people getting antsy and some aggressive comments here and there. Oddly enough I feel like Klei acknowledging that the Update would be a bit rocky made people more on-edge.
That said, I love me some threats, but ones that can't be fought against are lame.

[Antynomity]

I just hope we get something to protect areas from brightshades and rifts spawning there, Don't Starve's DLCs have a lot of amazing 'survival mechanics' that have methods to stopping them, expensive, cheap, they are there while this just feels like a punishment for completing the longest quest/boss line in the game.

[Cassielu]

I think the best solution is to add some sort of beacon that will attract Moonstorm, Brightshade, and whatever else is coming to it. Make them spawn next to the beacon with a higher priority. But if you don't deal with them, they'll still invade the rest of the world when the space around the beacon is filled up.

This also solves the problem of players wanting to easily grab more loot.

[Yuuko]

I really don't like the idea of buildings that deter the plants.  I think a better option would be to make the entire system more interactable rather than utterly thrust upon us.

Say we show the portal on the map like the lunar storms - lets players know its there, and where it is.  Use something like the hound waves and depth worms where they won't spawn unless a player is active on the surface, so someone going to the caves for a season doesn't come back to a destroyed surface.  Give them a timer of a few days to go deal with the portal before the plants come out.  IF they don't deal with it, the plants come out and they have their full destructive potential to break walls etc.  However if you go to the portal you get an event you can do to close the portal without the vines spreading - thereby avoiding any damage to your base.  This means you have to be on top of checking the map and actively working to stop these, but you're given your fair chance to close them before base destruction and infestation can start.

The portal could be closed by feeding it certain resources, defeating a miniboss, or something else idk but give us some way to actually interact with this BEFORE it just destroys things.  Then give us a good cool down after the portal gets closed before another one can open so we know we're safe for a bit.

[Antynomity]

12 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

approved snip

Yeah uh... I suggested at the start of the beta to let us overload the rift with pure horror (cancel it out cause y'know shadows and the brightness don't go well with eachother it seems)

[00petar00]

Im kind of split on all the solutions that players suggested. Building with a range of lightning rod is going to be terrible for base decoration as you'll have to spam it around your base as @sylvia wander osaid but it could be one of the better solution if it was given the range of 5-8 lightning rods, some may say that this would be too strong but just make it more expensive.

I understand that some players think that a good idea is like to have an optional boss like antlion or being able to close the rifts temporary but there should be a limit to how many time wasting chores are forced on you.

For summer if your wildfires are turned on usually have to spend the whole season in caves, hounds/depth worms and antlion is another tedious chore that I just have to kill every year because of sinkholes and earthquakes in caves.Now you can argue that Antlion is an optional boss but it is either you kill him or he will litter your caves with boulders over the course of years.

The more you play the game less you will you will find it fun in the repetitiveness of some of the events that you have to interact with.

The reason I enjoy DST so much is because while I prefer playing efficiently, I have the option to do what I want and don't always have to do things in a specific order, once you take the option away it isn't the same. 

I wouldn't mind events that are forced upon us if they weren't that repetitive, give me and option to empower antlion and make him 5x stronger but he doesn't spawn for next 5 years instead of every summer after he is killed and something similar for hounds too. It could be another item like hostile flare but instead of summoning it would empower the next wave.

 

The biggest question I have is why do we have to be punished for killing CC? The rewards are already not that great and now you will have a permanent rift event that you can't disable. Why not just give us an option to close the rifts by killing Fuelweaver and for it to be optional, rifts would only be disabled if you picked up the rose.

If the new gear was better, rifts wouldn't be as much of a punishment. There were decent suggestions for hoe to till 3x3 (9 plants) or for shovel to dig cactus, light bulbs and reeds.  Farming requires too many interactions that take a long time like tilling soil, planting, talking to plants, watering, picking them up while I can just build beebox and interact once, there is no harm in having better farming tools.

[Ryusuta]

I agree  While I see where they're trying to go with this, I think this is overall a step in the wrong direction for the game.

[Vinja]

5 hours ago, -Variant said:

I loved pirate raids, I think their early iteration was SO CLOSE to being perfect

They are so much better than early iteration imo but even in their current state they are so horrible. I know it’s off topic for the thread but I keep seeing people say in various threads that moon quay was better and then klei over adjusted and I just do not agree whatsoever. Enemies that by design fight you in a horde of 5 on a boat which means very little room to maneuver is so incredibly frustrating already, then you add that they actually steal items from you, destroy your boat, and run away with all your stuff and literally just delete it because the game is buggy as hell is just… so bad. And to top it off this is added onto the ocean which already struggles to attract players because of how boring and empty like 90% of it is. Absolutely horrible design, the monkeys are not fun at all.

I main console as I’ve said before and console just amplifies the issues x100. Console is constantly laggy and there’s nothing you can do about it, period. Especially if you’re playing with other people (yknow, how the game is intended) who happen to be killing spiders or something at the time you get raided. Combine that with the horrible action delay klei added a few months ago that now makes some actions just fail inexplicably for some reason. Trying to steer your boat? Get stuck in animation for a few crucial seconds then fail, try it again, same thing, try it again, there you go but by now you have a super late reaction to whatever you’re steering from. Trying to use the new cannons maybe, or the rudder? The rudder will turn on and struggle turning off due to this new action delay problem klei created. The cannon? Good luck lol, it’s so damn hit or miss because it’s already kinda clunky but combined with other general clunkiness of consoles and it’s borderline unusable even on its best days. Well sure, the game lagged like crazy and the monkeys robbed you blind and took off with your stuff so now you’ve gotta try to get it. Finally locate the pirate stash and…. What the hell none of that is my stuff. Another? What the hell.. nothing. I mean I’m a pretty decent player with a lot of experience and these dudes still annoy the hell out of me so imagine what it’s like for people who aren’t as experienced.. it’s just not designed with fun in mind I feel.
 

Between the general jankiness of consoles, DST, and the bugs the moon quay update remains the most poorly designed content ever added to the game. I like the concept but the execution just… really bad, especially for consoles. I know it can be hard for you PC mains to relate sometimes because you can fix pretty much anything you want with mods but please try to put yourselves in the shoes of console players for this one. Updates need to work well on ALL platforms.