Could skins bring Don't Starve back from death?

[Szczuku]

So let's be honest. Singleplayer was dead. Very much so. Hamlet released, some bug fixes while the dlc hype was still going on. And then nothing. For years.

For some reason Klei came back and we're getting this amazing update with lots of bug fixes and qol. But who knows when, if at all, the next update will release.

So I think that right now, while the QoL hype is fresh and strong, Klei should add skins to ds.

Unfortunatelly at this point in its life singleplayer is too old for content making to be profitable for Klei. I think. Putting in the money and resources to modernise ds and then later add new stuff to it is most likely just not beneficial to Klei. Because we all already own the game and its 3 dlcs., there's nothing else that this game could use to take our money. Dst can, with its skins.

Now, adding skins to the singleplayer could be a question of Klei's morality and greed, but think about it. This is exactly what this game needs. To generate profit outside of the initial purchase. And when it comes to skins, Klei is far from greedy. Between daily skins, 4 weekly skins for playing, trade inn and spools, you can easily get the skins you want without spending any money. You just need some patience.

The devs could port that over to the don't starve and patient people would be able to get the skins they want for free, while others would put money into the singleplayer-piggybank. Because if ds started passively generating money, Klei could feed that money back to the singleplayer and expand it and its dlcs.

Now, how exactly should Klei import skins to ds? Imo there are really only 3 options:

-Port over all the dst skins (except for dst only stuff, obviously) but make it separate for the dst skins. This would mean that your dst skins wouldn't be available in the singleplayer. This would result in a lot of complaints but would probably require the least amount of work.

-Port over the dst skins and connect them with dst. Would make a lot of fans happy but could jeopardize the entire point of adding skins to don't starve. One: most people that play ds also play dst and most likely already own the majority of skins they'd like to have. Two: if both games started generating money into the same ds/t skins-piggybank, then chances are that Klei would just use this money to work on dst, not ds

-Don't port over any dst skins, maybe except for the crappy tshirts, pants etc. Give singleplayer its own, unique skins and skin sets. For example dlc-themed skins. Volcanic set based on the ancient civilization that lived on the sw's volcano. If Klei decided to make them lizards then we could have our characters also appear with scales and what not. High Society skins for Hamlet. Like Gorge's victorian set, except that instead of leaning to the gloomy atmosphere of the Elder Bog we get the cheery, colorful one of the Hamlet Pig Cities.

Furthermore many dlcs structures would be great for skin-making, such as SW boats, chimnea, obsidian firepit, Hamlet bat hat, living artifact, flower of life, city lamps.

Idk, these are just my thought. I really thing that Klei, while they are still looking at the singleplayer, should seriously consider adding skins. If singleplayer, mostly its dlcs, could get expanded one day, I'd be so happy. 

[MikoFanboy]

personally, I think DS single player still have it's charm even without skin
but I think some of the QoL change and character refresh in DST has spoiled me too much XD and I would love to see some of the being port to DS
for example: 
- Webber can put hat on spider 

- Wendy can summon and control abigail with her flower

- Willow have Bernie

- Wickerbottom's new book (mainly Practical Rain Rituals, Overcoming Arachnophobia and The Angler's Survival Guide for SW/HAM only)

- Maxwell (yes, everything he can do in DST)

I mean those character can gain those power without interfere with the lore (Woodie's new abily was from Wicker help in DST, Wx was from Winona and WIlson,...)

- the favorite food system would me nice 

 

 

---------

also
skin has it's lore, they appeared due to Charlie take over 

the first skin in DST was this stair (yes, i'm serious) so adding skin to DS might become a plot hole? 

[oCrapaCreeper]

I will say that I almost never play DST and play DS for the most part. Klei doesn't get skin money from me for that reason, but if they crossed into DS then they probably would. But again, older game, older codebase, less players in general etc. It'd be a lot of work probably and far as I can tell it just seems to be one dev making this update anyway? At least based off the bug tracker and update posts, incredible job if so.

[minespatch]

10 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

skin has it's lore, they appeared due to Charlie take over 

[flamboyant wolf]

12 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

- Maxwell (yes, everything he can do in DST)

I mean those character can gain those power without interfere with the lore

isn't it implied that it was Charlie, who "unlocked" his new shadow powers? 

[MikoFanboy]

1 hour ago, skile said:

isn't it implied that it was Charlie, who "unlocked" his new shadow powers? 

hmm, true, well Maxwell pre rework could work 
the "put the book down to unlock shadow tab to craft"

 

[sudoku]

14 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

 far as I can tell it just seems to be one dev making this update anyway? 

Pretty sure this is the modder Leonidas who took it upon himself to fix bugs and make other useful singleplayer mods so much so he gained the attention of klei. 

Good for him, hes doing great, long overdue work.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 hour ago, sudoku said:

Pretty sure this is the modder Leonidas who took it upon himself to fix bugs and make other useful singleplayer mods so much so he gained the attention of klei. 

Good for him, hes doing great, long overdue work.

oh, really? that person's mods were a life saver, glad they're getting the attention they deserve. 

[sudoku]

8 minutes ago, skile said:

oh, really? that person's mods were a life saver, glad they're getting the attention they deserve. 

Just a hunch, Leonidas has a brazillian steam acoount and new guy's name is brazillian. 

Plus klei isnt shy about hiring modders. Zarklord comes to mind as well. 

[DiogoW]

1 hour ago, sudoku said:

Pretty sure this is the modder Leonidas who took it upon himself to fix bugs and make other useful singleplayer mods so much so he gained the attention of klei. 

Good for him, hes doing great, long overdue work.

Looks like you guys found me!
Haha, we have good detectives around here 

[SpoonyBardIV]

I think the biggest issue here is the limitations of 32 bit. DST is 64 bit, so it can handle many more textures being loaded into the game than DS can. You can see the issue by enabling the "item skins" and "character skins" mod when you have other mods enabled. The game frequently runs out of memory and crashes when generating/moving between worlds. The same thing happens with the mod that ports HD textures from DST. The game would have to be updated to support 64 bit before adding skins.

[oCrapaCreeper]

2 hours ago, DiogoW said:

Looks like you guys found me!
Haha, we have good detectives around here 

Man I suspected but I didn't want to assume thank you for your work and continuing to give this game the love it deserves.

[Hornete]

3 hours ago, DiogoW said:

Looks like you guys found me!
Haha, we have good detectives around here 

No matter which game, it always makes me giddy to see modders join the ranks of developers, and seeing it be more of a trend in the industry. Valve did it first when Portal was at first a fantastic mod of Half Life 2, to so many games today like Don't Starve/Together, The Binding of Isaac, Terraria, Rain World, Minecraft, Risk of Rain, and probably much much more I'm forgetting.

Keep the grind on modders!!!! Infect every game company with our ranks!! You've done so well with the Bug Fixes/QoL updates Leonidas/Diogo. I can't wait to see what else you do. 

[oCrapaCreeper]

4 hours ago, SpoonyBardIV said:

I think the biggest issue here is the limitations of 32 bit. DST is 64 bit, so it can handle many more textures being loaded into the game than DS can. You can see the issue by enabling the "item skins" and "character skins" mod when you have other mods enabled. The game frequently runs out of memory and crashes when generating/moving between worlds. The same thing happens with the mod that ports HD textures from DST. The game would have to be updated to support 64 bit before adding skins.

This was my assumption as well. If everything could be made HD while keeping the game stable I suspect it would have been done already, let alone add skins.

[SpoonyBardIV]

1 minute ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

This was my assumption as well. If everything could be made HD while keeping the game stable I suspect it would have been done already, let alone add skins.

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly possible. HD textures already work fine, it only becomes an issue when you have several other mods enabled. For example, the skins and hd textures mod works fine when no other mods are used, but the game runs out of memory if I enable them alongside other mods. Porting HD textures would work fine on consoles, but it restricts modding pretty badly on PC.

[Szczuku]

Well, while dst was made from square one and has a different engine than ds, it only became 64bit when Waterlogged update released 1.5 years ago, as far as I remember. It managed to run fine enough with skins before that. 

But I see the point you're making

[SpoonyBardIV]

6 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Well, while dst was made from square one and has a different engine than ds, it only became 64bit when Waterlogged update released 1.5 years ago, as far as I remember. It managed to run fine enough with skins before that. 

But I see the point you're making

I never really thought of that. I feel like loading the assets separately as a mod would use more memory too, so possibly having the files loaded with the vanilla game helps with that. I'll test the HD textures mod later today, I'll just replace the game files with the mod files and see how it runs.

[imsomony]

If Klei decided to make skins a unique asset/feature of DS, I'm fine with that under certain conditions. Rather than having users gain them occasionally from their playtime in DS (like how DST works), instead create a small design page for each character with a handful of preset options to choose from. Native to the game, not utilizing drops or the seller marketplace. Maybe they even add the wardrobe, so if players get bored with their current look during a long world, they can swap at times. I kinda doubt this will happen though, given the lore, and it would also require refocusing on active development and content for this game again.  

 

If Klei decided to allow DST skins to be used in DS, I hard-disagree and it would honestly make me lose some respect for them. People who play DS should not be forced to buy and play DST just to obtain a feature in DS. I highly doubt Klei will do this anyway. They lost a good chunk of their userbase for DS just from the decision to create DST. They stand to lose more if they force DS players to buy DST just to utilize assets. Despite their roots, they are different games.   

 

Also, Klei approached the development of DS with the perspective of NOT creating achievements or rewards, and in my opinion, skins fall into that category. Skin advocates often come across like "I must have this thing, it's the thing I want, that's what I need to be able to play" ... that's a collector/hoarder mentality that redirects the way someone approaches the game. Instead of immersing themselves into learning and exploring and becoming a better player, the person seeks cosmetic rewards that do not add to the game experience or benefit themselves in any way. 

 

I encourage everyone to read this Penny Arcade article by Jamie from the early days to get a better understanding of the different approaches, and why Klei (and Kevin, the OG developer) tailored the DS game experience the way they did. It opened my eyes not only to why DS is the way it is, but also to bad habits I was utilizing with other games. 

Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic rewards in Klei’s latest game; Don’t Starve.pdf

[KXWl1]

Damn, when I see a developer replying this post, I think that the skin system is ready to come to the single-player version. But I am glad that we find the staff's true identity.

[Rickzzs]

To mention the barrier for porting the skin system, as a modder I shall remind you that:

1. all animations should be updated to add swap_face layer and more.

2. all equippable items and more need water ripples added, or invent a way to add customizable ripple similar to DST floating param.

3. engine-level connection to Klei database. Sadly I cannot find the protocol so I cannot access it.

During the past year I have been able to port the item and character base part of the whole skin system, and I find these are the only things that prevent the skin system from being ported in the form of a mod.

As players generally ask for HD assets and skin assets, if the dev, DiogoW, today I know as Leonidas IV, really want to achieve that, I hope you can make changes in the engine, to touch where average modders have no access to and may as well spare no efforts in, and also utilize the art resources.

[Rickzzs]

On 3/17/2023 at 1:13 AM, SpoonyBardIV said:

I think the biggest issue here is the limitations of 32 bit. DST is 64 bit, so it can handle many more textures being loaded into the game than DS can. You can see the issue by enabling the "item skins" and "character skins" mod when you have other mods enabled. The game frequently runs out of memory and crashes when generating/moving between worlds. The same thing happens with the mod that ports HD textures from DST. The game would have to be updated to support 64 bit before adding skins.

Tests on my PC show that if lua jit, dynamic assets loading are both enabled, even Hamlet DLC consumes 1.2G(interior) to 1.4G(rain forest), far less than 4G limit, and I have 35 mods (although none of them are big mods) enabled. If the memory runs out it must be a mod issue.

[delonariel]

It certainly would for me, personally. The game just makes me depressed now. It's not just that single player doesn't have skins, but that people have been asking for them for years and they don't want to do anything about it. We know it's not impossible because it's been done with a number of mods, which Klei keeps banning. They could easily make some money on the side by selling skins for DS, even if they allow players to use the skins they've bought in both games.

Don't Starve is the only game I've stopped playing because it actively feels like the devs don't give a **** about it, or the people who play it. And I still check in every few months to see if things have changed. My wallet is ready.

[sudoku]

3 hours ago, delonariel said:

It certainly would for me, personally. The game just makes me depressed now. It's not just that single player doesn't have skins, but that people have been asking for them for years and they don't want to do anything about it. We know it's not impossible because it's been done with a number of mods, which Klei keeps banning. They could easily make some money on the side by selling skins for DS, even if they allow players to use the skins they've bought in both games.

Don't Starve is the only game I've stopped playing because it actively feels like the devs don't give a **** about it, or the people who play it. And I still check in every few months to see if things have changed. My wallet is ready.

I'm on the other side of the spectrum where often times, I boot up DST to play but I can't shake the feeling that I'm just playing to showcase all my skins instead of for the actual gameplay. 

Don't Starve is nice in that regard where it the focus is solely on the game