A compromise: Toadstool

[DajeKotlyar]

We all can agree that Toadstool is not the best boss. It's almost impossible to beat her solo without cheesing and dmg boost.

So I can suggest a compromising solution.

The main trouble I see in this fight: you have too small time window between she grow her trees. You just stop chopping and she grow new back.

So the solution: remove tree growing timer and make her grow trees after she lose some hp. For example every 5000 hp. For Wilson with tentacle spike it takes ~100 hits. He deal 2 hit every second so it's 50 seconds.

But. For the big group of players this change will be bad. 3 Wolfgang's with dark swords will deal ~800 dmg/second. It's mean Toadstool will grow new trees after 6 seconds. It's bad.

So there is should be at least 20 seconds gap between grows. So what do you think?

Some more numbers: normal toad will grow trees 9 times and misery - 19. Fairly enough I think 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, DajeKotlyar said:

It's almost impossible to beat her solo without cheesing and dmg boost.

what

[Auth]

Never had a problem with Toadstool unless I was underprepared and feeling cheeky. They're more of a weapon/equipment check than anything.

Toadstool offers a good variety for how to deal with the trees. Just trying to chop them down with axes alone is a terrible idea, especially if playing solo.

Woodie, Glass Axes, Weather Pain, Honey Crystals, Shadow Minions, Torches for burning them down (Although this adds risk), an army of enslaved Wilsons, you name it. All of these are more than capable of getting all the trees down and still giving good windows for dealing damage, assuming you brought enough supplies to keep it up through the fight- No cheese needed. 

[Cheggf]

I love toadstools fight. The trees offer an alternative challenge with plenty of solutions, instead of the typical "hit it until it dies". If there were a finite amount of trees the whole premise would be removed. Instead of trying to manage the trees and race against the clock you're just holding f on a big fat dude, but you needed to bring an axe.

[TemporarySolutn]

misery toadstool

[Gi-Go]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

what

You say that, but making toadstool stuck on ponds and become passive is clearly AI cheese. 

[Shosuko]

I think adjusting the # of trees spawned relative to the number of players near by, similar to Klaus spells would be a welcome improvement for the solo experience.  For multiplayer its fine, and even for solo its fine if you don't mind stockpiling so many weather pains lol

Does the lureplant cheese still work?  I always liked doing that one.

[Notecja]

Or just playing as Winona. Bunch of catapults and weather pains does nice job for solo. It's just expensive.

[Primalflower]

Toadstool is a raid-boss. This means that if you want to fight her all on your own, you're going to have to get creative. Getting creative isn't cheese! Its just what it means to play a multiplayer game solo-style. The suggestiosn that auth posted are all decent. I recall the last time i did toadstool on my own i was wanda + moonglass axes + honey spice. That was enough, but it was pretty difficult, still.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

for solo its fine if you don't mind stockpiling so many weather pains lol

since the addition of moon glasses i only relly on few weather pain uses from a single weather pain in the last phase and when a tree grows in the middle of a spore clowd. Saves so many resources and makes the fight funnier for me

[Shosuko]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

since the addition of moon glasses i only relly on few weather pain uses from a single weather pain in the last phase and when a tree grows in the middle of a spore clowd. Saves so many resources and makes the fight funnier for me

Maybe it can take the edge off the resources, but its adding time to an already long and exhausting encounter.  Even with moon glass chopping those things is a big distraction unless you're running some super chopper like honey spice or wolfgang.

[Capybara007]

toad isnt imposible to solo but its super repetitive and unfun

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Maybe it can take the edge off the resources, but its adding time to an already long and exhausting encounter.  Even with moon glass chopping those things is a big distraction unless you're running some super chopper like honey spice or wolfgang.

that depends on what do you prefer, if investing time farming goats and goose or chopping the caps. Personally i prefer the second one

 

i only fight him in winter so i can use morning star 

9 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Does the lureplant cheese still work?  I always liked doing that one.

if you mean trapping him with lureplants far away from the center of the arena to prevent the spawn of caps i think it no longer works. You can trap him but toad start spawning caps if was too much time trying to reach the center

Still gives some time to do some dps tho. I like to lure him ouside and start fighting him when he reach the ponds so i have time to do a lot of damage before reaches the center

[Capybara007]

my most reliable misery toad cheese is to sleep him like 5 times while i push him with fences, then block his path with lureplants, then cover most tiles around with fences

i think there is a cheaper blocker than fences, i know farm tiles used to block though i think they ve been patched

either way its not fun, toad has a cool visual and gameplay concept, but he has so many annoying mechanics

[ArubaroBeefalo]

my only problem with toad is that the fight is so damn easy. He only atacks you with mushbombs that are so easy to kite and the most dangerous atack is the 3rd phase earthquake that, after few fights, you telegraph easily

the boss is simply resource and time management to take advantage of every second you can deal damage so you dont end up doing much rounds or run out of tools

[-Nick-]

Misery Toadstool should be the one that gets reworked. Its such a lazy way to make a boss harder. And for meh rewards.

[Dunk Mujunk]

40 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

And for meh rewards.

I really enjoy the Mushlight, and being able dupe shroom skins is pretty crucial for it.

[Nettalie]

Honestly out of all the raidbosses I feel toadstool is an example of the more managable ones to fight on your own. If we were talking about misery toadstool that would be a bit different but even then there are definitely ways to do it without spending a miserable amount of time.

My only big grievances I really have with toadstool is that I find the blueprints you get weirdly underwhelming.
The mushcaps are an interesting idea but a lot of different factors about them make them awkward to use in my opinion, the lights are cool for decor but I don't like that I either need to fight the celestial champion of all things or need to get enough festive lights during winter's feast in order for them to stay lit forever, and as for the napsack im just sad that its main use feels like a more awkward panflute and it thus mostly gets used just for duping.

I really hope I'm not the only one who feels this way because this has been an issue I had even years ago.

 

[Shosuko]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that depends on what do you prefer, if investing time farming goats and goose or chopping the caps. Personally i prefer the second one

Eh, with anenemy farms you're more restricted by farming mosslings then goats.  I tried playing long seasons once and wow was that a mistake for my feather supply T_T

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Eh, with anenemy farms you're more restricted by farming mosslings then goats.  I tried playing long seasons once and wow was that a mistake for my feather supply T_T

right, sometimes i forget that exists. Not my playstyle but is true that is very efective

[DajeKotlyar]

Ok, guys, I heard you.

I depend on your feedback i can suggest new compromise.

So. Normal Toadstool fight divided to 3 parts.

1. No changes. She spawn her trees and bombs. Maybe make her spawn trees little less and bombs more.

2. She start spawn trees even rarely, start jumping and appears new attack: bite. Simple, but add some dynamic.

3. On a start of new phase she summon a lot of trees and stop summoning it to the end. Closer to end summon few (3-4 for every person) frogs which immune to her own attacks.

It adds some dynamic to the fight. Also there can be new drop: some wand or cloth to be neutral/control frogs

[Dunk Mujunk]

13 minutes ago, DajeKotlyar said:

Closer to end summon few (3-4 for every person) frogs 

Please god no.

Seriously though, this would make the original issue of Toad vs a single player much worse.

I'm personally good with Toad/M Toad as they are. That's just my opinion of course.

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, Nettalie said:

really hope I'm not the only one who feels this way because this has been an issue I had even years ago.

Ur definitely not. People have been complaining about toad drops since forever. 

Theyre very underwhelming considering the resource cost involved. 

mushlights are a late game luxury decoration. the lengths u have to go to for eternal dim lantern radius light is crazy. 

In my experience the only time they make a difference for survival is when u get a lucky blueprint + toad skin drop from klaus in the first winter. 

Their only saving grace is napsack duping which enables their use as decor. 

And Funcaps are simply an insult 

i never fight regular toadstool unless i absolutely have nothing else to do ultra late game.

I save up resources for misery toad so i only have to do that fight once. Klaus always ends up giving me any of the blueprints misery didnt drop. 

[Primalflower]

Would it be an evil idea if the Napsack was something you like, maybe refueled with spores/mushrooms, so instead of being a consumable & getting 4 per craft, it was just a slightly awkward to use alternative to the pan flute? Would that be too underpowered? Disregarding any duping uses.

[Nettalie]

3 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

Would it be an evil idea if the Napsack was something you like, maybe refueled with spores/mushrooms, so instead of being a consumable & getting 4 per craft, it was just a slightly awkward to use alternative to the pan flute? Would that be too underpowered? Disregarding any duping uses.

Honestly that sounds like a pretty great idea if you ask me. Would also help make the sporecaps stand out some more i feel