A compromise: Toadstool

[lakhnish]

My problem with Toadstool & Misery Toadstool is the same problem I've had with the boss for years: the loot.

Regardless of how you kill the boss, the loot is underwhelming for how much work you have to put into it.

The funcaps are cool but are incredibly niche since you don't really need them if you can kill Toadstool.

My only real reason for fighting Misery Toad is for the Knapsacks just so I can dupe them for Glowcaps.

But to be honest with you, rather than having some pretty lights for your megabase, infinite full moons thanks to Eye of the Storm are SOOO much easier and have way more benefits than downsides, not to mention is much less grindy.

For me, a step in the right direction would be if Toadstool were to get more drops like how Antlion got the Turf Raiser Helm BP. It would make the boss at least more valuable to kill, both for first time kills and repeat kills.

[mr. brj]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

For me, a step in the right direction would be if Toadstool were to get more drops like how Antlion got the Turf Raiser Helm BP. It would make the boss at least more valuable to kill, both for first time kills and repeat kills.

I have no issues with the Toadstool and Misery Toadstool fights except for the mediocrity of the loot compared to the time invested for the fights themselves, so I like this suggestion a lot.

Maybe the blueprint for an item that lets you convert mushrooms into mushtrees could work. It would be a cool reference to the fullmoons in single player DS as well, and would provide another lategame item mainly for base building.

Other than that, the lamps could definitely get some buffs to their light radius.

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve only attempted to fight this thing (By Myself) once, and that’s only because I accidentally summoned it. Boss fights in DST are not a fun experience for me- I don’t like spending long hours of time grinding resources and then spending 45 minutes or more in one fight.

Its the opposite of fun for me, what I DO find fun however is things like activating year of the Catcoon and then wandering around the game world map and finding each Kitcoon in each respective biome, I also enjoy attempting to build every WintersFeast dish in the game..

Ive never been a big fan of boss fights in any game unless those fights were:

#1 Fun to do. #2 Unique & different from other areas of the game, #3 Decent Rewards for completion, but most importantly of all- #4 does not take up a massive amount of time doing one thing.

People praised the Arkham games boss encounters, but if those took longer than 30-45Minutes- There would be a lot less praising I guarantee it!

Now maybe this type of content isn’t designed for people like me and Klei’s trying to target a particular group of people who enjoy raid bosses with high health pools I really don’t know.. but from my perspective I would actually engage in and do these activities more often if they just weren’t so time consuming.

Klei has done things like reduce crafting costs of armors, easy crafting of Cobblestone roads, make Beefalo a Day 1 mount and gave character reworks useful abilities.. but most boss fights even with all those changes- still feel like a chore if playing solo. And then to further rub salt into that wound: Feel like an easy pushover when you have 2-3 friends helping out.

I really wish there was some sort of scaling so I can choose if I want to spend forever in battle (by raising the health or requirements) or to simply enjoy the content at a faster pace (lowered enemy hp/requirements)

If I don’t want to spend 30+ game days to reach Spring, I can toggle my season lengths to Shortest and each season only lasts 6 days.

This allows me to experience all the games seasons without needing to invest so much time waiting.

Boss fights COULD (and should..) be looked at in the same way.

In the end you want your game to be FUN, and when people are not having fun.. you need to look at that and say- “How can we make people want to do this & have fun?”

Better loot pools? Less grind? Lowered HP for a faster fight? completely reworked mechanics/A.I.? 

Whatever, just make it enjoyable to more then just a select few players.
 

 

[SemIdeiaDeNome4]

everyone in here is discussing on how to chop down toadstool's trees and i'm just sitting here like: wait, toadstool is a SHE?!?!?!

[EighteenXVIII]

Some raid bosses simply need some health pool tweaks between single player and multiplayer. This will be true until Klei decides to take a risk and address it. It's far beyond the point of a skill issue, it's an issue of tedium.

The Shadow Pieces are fine solo and they're fun. Ancient Guardian is also fun. I personally don't find the Klaus fight fun, but many other players do and his HP bar is still within reason. The Twins are fun. In a multiplayer server, all these bosses as well as the following ones are a breeze, no challenge at all.

Crab King, Dragonfly, Bee Queen and Toadstool are not fun anymore to solo. Two reasons: HP pools and designs that drag out the fight. Anything above 15k HP (my limit is more around 10k HP personally) just becomes tedious.

If you look at the first set of bosses I listed, none of them will make it too difficult to keep dishing out damage (besides Klaus' deer, which is also my main issue with the fight). Bee Queen however, impossible to really dish out good damage without tanking and burning through multiple pan flutes or playing specific characters like Wendy, Winona or Wurt. The constant swarms of grumble bees won't allow it. Dragonfly in a nutshell is repeating a kiting pattern for 28k HP, canceling his enraged form because it's unmanageable, and blocking his lavae because they're unmanageable. People choose to avoid literally 2/3 of the boss fight design. Let's not get into Crab King too much, let's just point out that he heals indefinitely unless you use cheese like bees or weather pains. Toadstool's HP is so bloated even among these raid bosses, and that's not even his final form.

There's also Fuelweaver, which has been pointed out by much better gamers than me that he is unbeatable without extensive practice in a world with console commands and knowing exactly the right strategy and exactly the right toolset of items, which are many. This would be excusable if it were just an optional final challenge for the most ambitious among us. But it's not, defeating Fuelweaver is imperative to resetting the ruins. My solution here is a sneaky one: make it so placing the ancient key in the atrium resets the ruins, without needing to summon or kill Fuelweaver.

 

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, EighteenXVIII said:

Some raid bosses simply need some health pool tweaks between single player and multiplayer

Their health pools are already adjustable. Pick Wolfgang, make catapults, eat volt goat chaud froid, etc.

[DajeKotlyar]

8 hours ago, SemIdeiaDeNome4 said:

everyone in here is discussing on how to chop down toadstool's trees and i'm just sitting here like: wait, toadstool is a SHE?!?!?!

Toadstool is "she" in my language, so I just use this word

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

and blocking his lavae because they're unmanageable

2 ice staffs make them very manageable and is way less tedious than waiting behind a wall

2 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

There's also Fuelweaver, which has been pointed out by much better gamers than me that he is unbeatable without extensive practice in a world with console commands and knowing exactly the right strategy and exactly the right toolset of items, which are many. This would be excusable if it were just an optional final challenge for the most ambitious among us. But it's not, defeating Fuelweaver is imperative to resetting the ruins. My solution here is a sneaky one: make it so placing the ancient key in the atrium resets the ruins, without needing to summon or kill Fuelweaver.

true, is almost impossible for a player to know how to summon and fight him without help but the fight itself is one of the best of the game. Simply reseting the ruins with the key isnt a good desing. You can dupe thulecite, farm archives moth's dens and get gems from DF

2 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

Anything above 15k HP (my limit is more around 10k HP personally) just becomes tedious.

them, imo, klei should increase the frecuency of hound and worm waves, increase sanity and hunger drain and make weather more difficult so you notice all of these mechanics in a short boss fight

edit: this would also make wolfg, wanda, warly, winona, followes, etc stupid characters

what the game needs are dinamic fights like CC which is long but you dont feel any tedium, not SW/Hamlet ridiculous fights that you barely need any preparation and finish before you notice 

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, EighteenXVIII said:

Anything above 15k HP (my limit is more around 10k HP personally) just becomes tedious.

I really don't think health pools, or adjusted health pools based on server population are the real answer.  I think the problem is just how much time you have to engage the boss.  BQueen and Toadstool are great examples of fights where you don't get much time to fight at all unless you cheese, which then drives players to seek other methods, not out of fun, but out of necessity / brevity.

Yes the fights are longer with more health, but considering you're probably looking to invest 300~ days in a world (2400 minutes) I don't think having a fight take 15-20 minutes is that bad IF you're able to actually have the fight.  Other fights have 10k and 20k health and aren't an issue like these ones, so obviously the health bar isn't the actual issue.  The real problem is you're just not given any real time to fight the boss, its always this chore, that chore, spam resources.  The time you're actually given to deal damage to the boss is quite minimal.

Ancient Guardian had essentially the same issues, and received a rework that answered them.  Now we have charge stun that gives us windows to actually attack the boss, and suddenly it doesn't feel like such a chore.  Bqueen and Toad need this same thing.  With BQueen its the grumbles, and their endless, mindless march combined with their instant respawn.  With the toad its just soo soo many shroom trees.

Have the bqueen spawn grumbles based on the number of players nearby, like 3/player.  Have a respawn timer that allows you to kill the grumbles and have some solo time with her.  Same with toad, limit the tree count based on the number of players.  Really these fights aren't that bad, you just need to be allowed to actually fight the boss.

[Primalflower]

1 hour ago, DajeKotlyar said:

Toadstool is "she" in my language, so I just use this word

It was stated in the past by a klei dev that every boss in a new reign is female "except for a few." The most logical exceptions to this in my mind would be Klaus and the Ancient Fuelweaver, but I'm not gonna get your goat if you disagree/refer to them by something else. Its unclear.