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So much little details was added. The good ones!

 

Love new animation duellists have, and how you delete shadows from auto attack while wearing bone helm.

What a time to be Maxwell main. I always wanted Maxwell to be if not strong, then at least unique. Both of my wishes come true! 

Thanks a lot, Klei. Maxwell really is now unique and quite powerful, once you obtain right equipment. Words cant discribe how much I am grateful for such wonderful rework!

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41 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Seeing a lot of complaints about 44 damage from dark sword + night armor + magic hat being worse than the 60 from thurible + bone armor + bone helm.

It's still a lot of damage, guys:

Looks like Max is dealing something like  60-70% more damage, at least from the 8 second excerpt I did advanced simple division on. That is huge.

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I like everything so far.

I don't think Maxwell was ever supposed to be the best fighter in this game, so I don't get the complaints. But even if he gets much better damage, maybe just as good or better than Wolfgang, let's think about it - let's say that this hypothetical rework happened before the Wolfgang rework, wouldn't people complain that Wolfgang now doesn't have enough damage? Wouldn't they bring up that a frail nerdy guy can dish out more damage than the strongman imbued with the same shadow magic Maxwell uses?

Wolfgang has a simple way of fighting - he gets strong, he hits things. Wanda has her own characteristic fighting method - she hunts down rare materials to make her clock based weapons, which she gets better at when she's older. Maxwell on the other hand, plots and connives, he lays traps and creates cages, and summons minions to do the dirty work. It's all super characteristic.

I don't need these reworks to create the next best character in the game. I want them to give me something fun and unique to play around with.

And don't give me this "Woodie is still better at wood chopping, and Wolfgang is still better at fighting" attitude. Yes, but are Woodie and Wolfgang better than Maxwell at BOTH of those things? Do they also have a magic hat and can they summon a magic cage? No, they can't.

So far Maxwell is shaping up to be the most interesting and diversely usable character since Woodie, and in gameplay enjoyment he's even surpassing Wanda because his powers don't need as much setup as hers do.

Those are my two cents on the discussion.

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idk i always prefered woodie over maxwell to clear forests and such things not concentrated because of the no treeguard perk, but now it seems woodie shines even more in that specific regard, or at least kinda more "simple" since u only need monster meat and some food and done clean forest.

 

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2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The Woodie comparison makes me a bit sad since Woodie is a jack of all trades and now Maxwell is a master of all trades. Our beloved lumberjack is being left behind now.

And yet Maxwell cannot turn into bird jesus and walk on water.

Woodie is a better woodchopper, since he's not confined to a small circle when he does his job. Or you can just look at the two as having different methods doing the same thing.

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11 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The Woodie comparison makes me a bit sad since Woodie is a jack of all trades and now Maxwell is a master of all trades. Our beloved lumberjack is being left behind now.

Im still sad Klei didnt even bothered to give him a proper short with lore.

Still, I wont call him bad though. Yes, he sure is worse then Maxwell in farming but hes fun. I had a good time playing him last month, I was suprised Klei removed spoil time on idols.

Forgot to Add: Woodie can rush moon island in goose form and farm horde of mobes with ease in moose form. 

I always hated Frog rain, cuz how annoying it is, but for Woodie - its dinner time. Frog legs for days!

Edited by Dragonboooorn
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7 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The Woodie comparison makes me a bit sad since Woodie is a jack of all trades and now Maxwell is a master of all trades. Our beloved lumberjack is being left behind now.

Not really, they're both a jack of all trades and you wouldn't exactly complain on having either or even both on your team which is why i never really understood the competition this community has with characters outshining others in some aspects they share

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14 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

And yet Maxwell cannot turn into bird jesus and walk on water.

Woodie is a better woodchopper, since he's not confined to a small circle when he does his job. Or you can just look at the two as having different methods doing the same thing.

Woodie is the one who's confined to one area since he is only himself. Maxwell can choose how he wants to spend the resources of 7 men, Woodie is a single man who chops a little faster. Woodie had always been the slowest lumberjack and Maxwell the fastest, and now Maxwell's minions are even cheaper and he can have 50% more of them out at a time and they are loggers and diggers combined and they help pick up items when they're done.

15 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said:

Not really, they're both a jack of all trades and you wouldn't exactly complain on having either or even both on your team which is why i never really understood the competition this community has with characters outshining others in some aspects they share

You are literally arguing about character strength right now.

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5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Woodie is the one who's confined to one area since he is only himself.

How is that being confined to one area? You can move around freely. And it's not just a little faster, that's a huge downplay of his power, he chops and uproots a large tree with 4 quick bites.

On the other hand, Maxwell works with a team of normal speed workers. That's powerful, but now that he can't take them with him, it has a bit of a drawback. Which is a fair one, mind you.

Again, you can look at the two as having different methods doing the same job.

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1 minute ago, Roodmas said:

How is that being confined to one area?

How is Maxwell confined to one area? Just as Woodie can move around, so too can Maxwell and his minions. If anyone is confined to one area it's the guy who does one thing at one time and not the guy who does 7 things at 1 time.

3 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

And it's not just a little faster, that's a huge downplay of his power

https://youtu.be/n42RQYSlWiE

This video shows Maxwell with 4 minions with bad sticking together ai and an inability to multitask is the best non-boss lumberjack, and Woodie the worst. Since that video came out Maxwell has become far better and Woodie has remained the same.

I don't know why you need to think that Woodie is the best lumberjack. It's okay that he isn't, he never was. His deal is that he's a jack of all trades who has a little lumberjacking and a little aoe and a little cheap combat ability and a little early game mobility. He's never been about having a lot of something.

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2 hours ago, Starling said:

I was expecting more changes after 14 pages of discussions to previous update

The good majority of that was 2-3 people arguing and throwing insults at each other. Not that the community should be entitled to have a say in what Klei should or shouldn't do with the game.

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5 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

The good majority of that was 2-3 people arguing and throwing insults at each other. Not that the community should be entitled to have a say in what Klei should or shouldn't do with the game.

But throwing insults is why i'm here.... makes the forums more fun to browse! :wilsoalmostangelic:

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4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

How is Maxwell confined to one area?

His minions can't move outside of the circle you summoned them in, that's what I mean. Yes you can summon new ones, that wasn't my point.

 

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I don't know why you need to think that Woodie is the best lumberjack.

First of all, you're starting to be a bit personal with your tone, let's not do that please, we don't need that.

By himself, without any help outside help, he is the best lumberjack. There are faster methods, yes, but they involve outside forces like bosses or the forest stalker. The exception is Maxwell, who I clearly didn't dismiss, I even said in my previous comment:

14 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

Maxwell works with a team of normal speed workers. That's powerful

 

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4 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

His minions can't move outside of the circle you summoned them in, that's what I mean. Yes you can summon new ones, that wasn't my point.

The minions are 10x cheaper than they used to be AND cost no flint AND do all 3 tree actions instead of only 1 AND the circle is so big that they can fully chop and dig like 30 trees without even needing to be resummoned. If the area you're gathering from is larger than a circle, make multiple. It'll go faster since they won't be working on the same trees therefore having less travel time. It'll also protect against tree guards slowing them down. Them being "confined" to a circle is a big upgrade, not a drawback.

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1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

It'll also protect against tree guards slowing them down.

Will they? What do you mean by that? (I'm not being ironic, I'm genuinely curious)

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Them being "confined" to a circle is a big upgrade, not a drawback.

I suppose that's true if you only make 1 servant per circle, I'll give you that.

All of what you're saying is fair of course, it doesn't take anything away from what I said before, but they are good arguments for Maxwell.

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15 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

Will they? What do you mean by that?

Tree guards scare shadows so they stop working and run away, but it's only in a certain radius from the treeguard. Now that the servants are no longer tethered to Maxwell if one makes treants you can kill the servant and summon it elsewhere (or just keep it where it is if you value a fraction of a nmf more than work efficacy) then fight the guards away from your workers as they keep working. Depending on how they spawn (since later on they spawn in packs) they might distract multiple for a bit longer than you want but overall it's much better than the 100% stopping entirely until all guards died that it used to be.

15 minutes ago, Roodmas said:

I suppose that's true if you only make 1 servant per circle, I'll give you that.

With how big the circles are you can even do 2 or 3 per circle and they'll work a long time before stopping. You can have the same work rate you had before in two different areas at once. I can't think of any situations where new max is worse than old. The only one that could possibly be is if you only want a few scarcely scattered things like rocks, but the shadows are 10x cheaper so I've yet to see world generation where I would have preferred the old shadows.

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1 hour ago, Roodmas said:

Woodie is a better woodchopper, since he's not confined to a small circle when he does his job. Or you can just look at the two as having different methods doing the same thing.

Yeah, I think they're pretty different. 

Maxwell is faster and even cheaper IMO (one nightmare fuel per 5 workers) with a raw power of numbers and ability to pick up during chopping(gotta admit though, that's just an assumption, haven't tested new servants all that much) but Woodie is simply more consistent since there are no potential Treeguards interrupting you. 

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I have not tried it yet but I can't wait for the release!
I follow the discussion on the forum very closely and see that Klei tries their best to implement changes based on the people comments (either if you find them good or bad), and that's really cool!

You guys are the best.

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