BB Marioni Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 I feel like the devs are getting confused now from all the feedback. I think the duelists were already good the previous update, but some people on this forum suggested to make Maxwell a ranged fighter and suggested to give other shadow equipment synergies with him, and now they listened to those feedback and now people are also enraged XD. I see a lot of conflicting suggestions here in the forums. 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme_D1 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) I think Shadow Thurible could reduce cast time by 40% or 50%, maybe Magician's Top Hat should reduce it by 15% or 20%. Shadow Thurible should increase duelists damage by 10 or 12 instead of 16 in compensation. Bone Helm increase damage to 16 or 18 instead of 12. (maybe Bone Helm could reduce cast time by 5% or 10%). This would allow you to choose between a Maxwell warrior or mage. Mage Mode = Shadow Thurible + Bone Armor + Magician's Top Hat. You would have less risk of life (since you wouldn't be too close to the creature), you would cast faster (having less chance of being attacked while using the book), but in return the duelists would deal less damage and because you are further from the target they would attack slower. Warrior Mode = Dark Sword + Bone Armor + Bone Helm. You would be more likely to get hit, but duelists would have more damage, and because you were closer, their attack speed would be higher. So whoever wants to do more damage would choose warrior mode. And whoever wanted to be safer and using more spells would choose mage mode. NOTE: I am using a translator. Edited November 8, 2022 by Xtreme_D1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) Summary of how Duelists have changed over the updates: 529540: Broken AI 529754: Unremarkable (opinion) 529972: Changes from general mobbing to boss-killer, but it can AFK bosses easily 529998: Risk/Reward DPS boost on par with Wanda/Wolfgang 530195: Either risk/reward DPS or AFK boss-killer, but weaker versions of both EDIT: After playing around with it, this update is pretty sweet. You can make a habit of going insane mid-combat because the extended damage falloff range + shadow prison allows you to disengage and deal with nightmare creatures while duelists fight the enemy. It's not super intuitive but it's good fun! Edited November 8, 2022 by Arcwell 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starling Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 I wrote this before but posting here again incase it was missed: Shadow duelists should be able to attack sanity monsters due to both being shadows. It would make sense if servants dig unwanted weeds at garden because that sounds like something servants would do Please add some kind of button to stop servants from mining small marble tree or chopping small tree in clustered farms. I think duelists from the previous beta update were better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wattata Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 My suggestion : 1. Maxwell will say something each time he summon Duelist, based on how strong the Duelist damage is, example : 20 dmg (no shadow equipment) = I need to find more shadowy arsenal to empower my minion. 24-32 dmg = My minion clings tighter upon this world, but barely. 36-44 dmg = The shadows may be our enemy, but I had carved Them into my weapons- with proper caution, of course. 48-56 dmg = From darkness, light pours into our morrow. 60 dmg (max) = I have slaved the shadows unto my will! So new players / people that didnt check forum will know/ get the hint that the Duelist can be stronger. 2. Add damage bonus multiplier if Maxwell attack the same enemy as his Duelist (like Wendy & Abigail combo). So there is incentive if player dare to risk into melee combat. Instead of fully equipping tier 3&4 then standing prettily somewhere near the rainbow.. XD 3. For the Duelist defense and attack mechanic, it is on a good path, I really like the Lunge / charge attack, it adds up aggresive behavior of the hostile shadows. In my opinion, Maxwell is like a jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one. He can be resource gatherer in early game so other players can roam the map, in mid to late game he can deal high damage in boss fight. Plus he can trap or scare enemies as well, that is a sweet jelly beans for me! Well done Devs! 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahm Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Not really sure about the balance, but being a puppet master and engaging in close proximity to have more damage with the shadows sounds kinda weird. I just want to step aside, drink tea and observe IMHO. I'm not the one to guide someone, but as far as i think - Maxwell could be unique class without a real need to perform some similar actions to other characters, like engaging. He was chosen quite rarely anyway, mostly by the ones who wanted to use puppets, so why not to make him that different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Jay Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 This version is good, keep going. Basically solved the problems of the previous version(SAN/DMG Decay/Hate). People are too over-reactive, Maxwell needs to be great again, It's been almost ten years. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jorsef said: This version is good, keep going. Basically solved the problems of the previous version(SAN/DMG Decay/Hate). People are too over-reactive, Maxwell needs to be great again, It's been almost ten years. sad part that is most o people that liked this update were the ones that wanted maxwell nerfed.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Jay Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BB Marioni said: I feel like the devs are getting confused now from all the feedback. I think the duelists were already good the previous update, but some people on this forum suggested to make Maxwell a ranged fighter and suggested to give other shadow equipment synergies with him, and now they listened to those feedback and now people are also enraged XD. I see a lot of conflicting suggestions here in the forums. Many people don't want to see maxwell destroy their characters, and in my opinion other characters need to be updated as well. Klei knows that maxwell is the king of shadows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyD Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 It seems Klei is not reading the other feedbacks, only from people who want to nerf everything. Congratulations to people who don't and won't play Maxwell for helping to destroy the character with every patch... We have a character that is now locked on equipment to get decent damage, that needs to use all his sanity and has little HP and is "forced" to engage in the fight. At least then increase Maxwell's life from 75HP to 150HP Nothing else makes sense, RIP Maxwell. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowWho Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 7 hours ago, edulopes said: maxwell was almost perfect and now duellists sucks again give me my old perma clones over this maxwell You do know the duelists used to only have 40 damage, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Just now, YouKnowWho said: You do know the duelists used to only have 40 damage, right? and where tanks, and before that lasted forever and before maxwell had 20 san/min and before that maxwell didnt even have codex umbra, i follow every step of the guy since his launch my bro, and for sure i know he is in a worse spot than yesterday 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Jay Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, edulopes said: sad part that is most o people that liked this update were the ones that wanted maxwell nerfed.... Many people do not like this update either, they feel maxwell has become the last version, they just want to nerf everything. Fixing the problem is a good thing, at least there's less chaos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 I just want to take my time to thank you, devs. I haven't tested new Maxwell yet but I already see people complaining all over again, and i just wanna point out that these last 2 patches are fantastic. They are very creative and I can see you guys are seriously trying to please Maxwell's enjoyers. Even if I dislike certain changes you did, I still greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into making this rework awesome. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Gi-Go said: I just want to take my time to thank you, devs. I haven't tested new Maxwell yet but I already see people complaining all over again, and i just wanna point out that these last 2 patches are fantastic. They are very creative and I can see you guys are seriously trying to please Maxwell's enjoyers. Even if I dislike certain changes you did, I still greatly appreciate the time and effort you put into making this rework awesome. that is one part that everyone cant complain, uptades late at nigth in not normally work days, as i said klei is really trying their best, as always 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyD Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said: You do know the duelists used to only have 40 damage, right? And you didn't have to stay close And you could use any equipment And the attack speed didn't change You say a lot of things you don't know, How can you be like that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 10 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said: You do know the duelists used to only have 40 damage, right? if they could at least tank equal to the first patch of them being able to tank bosses i would not say nothing, but now is just abnoxious using them, cast times are too long, their damage isnt worth the hassle of spawning them, at this point, just play wanda or wolfgang only as always, and wicker to mega farm, why people dont want them nerfed? if in ALL caracter refreshes them is am problem and an comparison for doing much damage? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 And that a simple spider or pig was able to easily kill them? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, edulopes said: if they could at least tank equal to the first patch of them being able to tank bosses i would not say nothing, but now is just abnoxious using them, cast times are too long, their damage isnt worth the hassle of spawning them, at this point, just play wanda or wolfgang only as always, and wicker to mega farm, why people dont want them nerfed? if in ALL caracter refreshes them is am problem and an comparison for doing much damage? and i think maxwell being able to do damage enter the same realm than wanda, both are glasscannons but wanda is easier to use. so i think it would feel an equal game field, i am against nerfing caracters but reading some replies makes me think and say that would not be that what you all want ? nerf all caracters to be equal ? 1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: And that a simple spider or pig was able to easily kill them? well DS solo maxwell, is the closest to this one, and he was capable of killing them using his clones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.wilson.BR Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, Jorsef said: This version is good, keep going. Basically solved the problems of the previous version(SAN/DMG Decay/Hate). People are too over-reactive, Maxwell needs to be great again, It's been almost ten years. Agreed the update as of now is honestly great, i like the tier hierarchy to increase the damage of the minions and it also encourages maxwell to participate in the fight to maximize their potential but even without that they're disposable fighters you can easily replace with more nightmare fuel 1 hour ago, Thundario Watt said: My suggestion : 1. Maxwell will say something each time he summon Duelist, based on how strong the Duelist damage is, example : 20 dmg (no shadow equipment) = I need to find more shadowy arsenal to empower my minion. 24-32 dmg = My minion clings tighter upon this world, but barely. 36-44 dmg = The shadows may be our enemy, but I had carved Them into my weapons- with proper caution, of course. 48-56 dmg = From darkness, light pours into our morrow. 60 dmg (max) = I have slaved the shadows unto my will! So new players / people that didnt check forum will know/ get the hint that the Duelist can be stronger. 2. Add damage bonus multiplier if Maxwell attack the same enemy as his Duelist (like Wendy & Abigail combo). So there is incentive if player dare to risk into melee combat. Instead of fully equipping tier 3&4 then standing prettily somewhere near the rainbow.. XD 3. For the Duelist defense and attack mechanic, it is on a good path, I really like the Lunge / charge attack, it adds up aggresive behavior of the hostile shadows. In my opinion, Maxwell is like a jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one. He can be resource gatherer in early game so other players can roam the map, in mid to late game he can deal high damage in boss fight. Plus he can trap or scare enemies as well, that is a sweet jelly beans for me! Well done Devs! I also really like this idea and would further encourage fighting alongside his minions (although even as of now the extra dps is good enough imo that if it didn't change i wouldn't mind) outside of this the update is great and i have good faith in future updates 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyD Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen in a co-op game, I have the impression that it is a lot of people who do not accept that other characters are good in comparison with others, it's like a competition, everyone should be happy with Maxwell, but no, many people want to nerf him, as if this game was an e-sport worth 1kk dol. wtf... And they talk about balancing? ********, Abigail can solo 20+ lv3 spider nests, dozens and dozens, hundreds of mobs without even having to move or ''EnGaGe in the fight" but Maxwell can't do the same because he is "too OP" ha ha ha. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edulopes Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 because if we take every caracter Point and really think about it , and cheese the maximum potencial, almost every caracter, besides wilson willow, winona, wes, and walter,( maybie webber, never played him) everyone is OP in an way or another, i can point them all Like wolfgang is the best tanker/damage of the game Wanda is the most versatile caracter of the game wicker is the Most strong caracter of the game warly is the best buffer of the game wurt is the best ( minion master of the game) woodie is the best all around caracter that haves less downsides of the game wigfrid is the best bard figther of the game( buffs team and herself)( and can figth alone) wormwood is the best farmer of the game Wx is the best caracter for that you can change at your will and deppending of situation Maxwell WAS the best summoner of the game, being being able to uses his summons ( as fodder or as helpers at figths) and now his servants just have the gather, in rest are in worse spot that pre rework maxwell 1 minute ago, edulopes said: because if we take every caracter Point and really think about it , and cheese the maximum potencial, almost every caracter, besides wilson willow, winona, wes, and walter,( maybie webber, never played him) everyone is OP in an way or another, i can point them all Like wolfgang is the best tanker/damage of the game Wanda is the most versatile caracter of the game wicker is the Most strong caracter of the game warly is the best buffer of the game wurt is the best ( minion master of the game) woodie is the best all around caracter that haves less downsides of the game wigfrid is the best bard figther of the game( buffs team and herself)( and can figth alone) wormwood is the best farmer of the game Wx is the best caracter for that you can change at your will and deppending of situation Maxwell WAS the best summoner of the game, being being able to uses his summons ( as fodder or as helpers at figths) and now his servants just have the gather, in rest are in worse spot that pre rework maxwell his duellists arent worse than pre rework, but lord more than 10 years that they were useful, let them at least be good? not as good as wanda or wolf but at least close enough 8 minutes ago, mr.wilson.BR said: Agreed the update as of now is honestly great, i like the tier hierarchy to increase the damage of the minions and it also encourages maxwell to participate in the fight to maximize their potential but even without that they're disposable fighters you can easily replace with more nightmare fuel I also really like this idea and would further encourage fighting alongside his minions (although even as of now the extra dps is good enough imo that if it didn't change i wouldn't mind) outside of this the update is great and i have good faith in future updates I also really like this idea and would further encourage fighting alongside his minions (although even as of now the extra dps is good enough imo that if it didn't change i wouldn't mind) the problem now is the best DPS is locked behind not figthing MEANWILE WANDA , WOLF And wig hold F and goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcwell Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Seeing this a lot so I feel it's worth mentioning: Duelists are specialized for boss-killing, not mobbing. They might be worse than Abby against spiders but they're leagues better than the rest against the likes of Deerclops, Dragonfly, and Celestial Champion. If you compare duelists to other minions solely on their mobbing potential, they will seem worse. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenhelxing Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 I've said this and I'll say it again: make the codex upgradable in order to increase the duelist damage. Obtaining armor for their damage is complicated and absurd. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyD Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, edulopes said: because if we take every caracter Point and really think about it , and cheese the maximum potencial, almost every caracter, besides wilson willow, winona, wes, and walter,( maybie webber, never played him) everyone is OP in an way or another, i can point them all Winona's Catapult 1 trusty tape, 15 rocks, 3 twigs to build one. damage = 42.5 (1.25 AoE radius) 42.5*18 = 765 BALANCED !!! XD 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now