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Limitations and benefits of Lights Out?


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Let's say I hypothetically want to start a long playthrough in a lights out world. What kind of obstacles and benefits come with an endless night? And how to overcome those obstacles

Limitations:

  • Farm crops don't grow at night. They only do with a star caller staff (or Wickerbottom's light book), but it's not very affordable or worth it. Also, do any other plants (like, berry bushes, grass tufts and saplings for example) not grow at night?
  • Pigs don't come out of their houses at night. Do they come out if you set their house on fire and put it out? How would a full moon pig farm look like?
  • Pig king is asleep, which means no easy source of mass producing gold. What else remains as a renewable source of gold? Moleworm farm (they function at night, not just dusk, right?), earthquakes, fishing for Wurt's merm king? 
  • Birds don't appear, so the only way to get a bird for your birdcage is from a catcoon puking it out. Are catcoons out at night or do you need to hammer (or burn and put out) their house to make them come out? Does Wickerbottom's birds of the world book work? If that doesn't work, then darts aren't an option entirely. Jet feathers for feather pencils come from pengulls though.
  • Red and green mushrooms don't come out. Hardly a problem, because mushtrees (and mushroom planters) should work just fine.
  • Always needing a light source. So it's better to have body slot seasonal clothing + miner hat if you want to use a walking cane.
  • Permanent sanity drain.
  • I'm very unsure about how bee boxes work at night. Do they produce any honey at all?
  • Butterflies never appear.
  • Frogs never appear (except frog rains)

Benefits:

  • Abigail always does 40 damage.
  • Beefalos always sleep, which means very easy beefalo wool. Can you feed a beefalo while it's asleep if you want to ride it? 
  • Pengulls always sleep, so it's easier to kill them.
  • Volt goats always sleep, which means you don't need an ice staff or a boomerang to aggro them.
  • Infinite night means you have an entire day to fight the eye of terror or the twins.
  • Bunnymen are always available.
  • No wildfires.
  • Morning star becomes a bit more useful as a weapon+light source, since you wouldn't need to drop a lantern everytime you want to fight something.

If I'm wrong on any of these, please correct me. Are there any more limitations and/or benefits that you know?

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1 hour ago, SonicDen220 said:

Benefits:

infinity forest stalkers. Easy light bulbs, lesser glow berries and can be used to recover sanity or chop

long full moons to fight werepigs or produce moon caller staffs or even use the moon altar to farm meat and pig skin

more time to do, if fast enough, multiple shadow bosses

not sure of this one but i think beefalos dont domestication while sleeping so taming them is a little easier

1 hour ago, SonicDen220 said:

Can you feed a beefalo while it's asleep if you want to ride it

you can equip them a saddle and try to ride them to wake them up. Also i guess they wake up to follow you if they are linked to a bell

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3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

not sure of this one but i think beefalos dont domestication while sleeping so taming them is a little easier

If they don't lose domestication when sleeping, does that mean you can avoid using the salt lick entirely?

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12 minutes ago, SonicDen220 said:

If they don't lose domestication when sleeping, does that mean you can avoid using the salt lick entirely?

yep. But i didnt read the code so not sure of this one, i heard this from that youtuber that did a run domesticating a beefalo with wendy time ago (cant remember the name)

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It would be cool if they reworked lights out mode- mobs behaving differently in this mode, perhaps add some of Maxwells torches from Story Mode of Solo DS as random set pieces..

When I tried to play this way I felt like it wasn’t a fully fleshed out “Mode” I had a lot of fun with Chapter 5 Darkness in Solo DS, but the actual mode in DST could use some work..

Now that Skittersquid 100% drop lightbulbs upon kill it’s a step in the right direction, but I’d like to see more done this mode.

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18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Also, do any other plants (like, berry bushes, grass tufts and saplings for example) not grow at night?

Yes, they all grow in lights out world.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Pigs don't come out of their houses at night. Do they come out if you set their house on fire and put it out? How would a full moon pig farm look like?

Yes, you can set their houses on fire, feed them while house is burning (so they don't return to house immediately after you extinguish it), then extinguish house. If you have bait nearby, you can just set house on fire and extinguish it immediately after. The only difference between full moon pig farm in normal and lights out worlds is requirement to build ice flingomatic or use other tool to extinguish houses after setting them on fire.

Another cool thing with pigs one can do in lights out is to relocate them during full moon. One has 8 minutes to do so with all houses in the forest, and pigs are guaranteed to be not dead (due to spiders) because they stay inside houses, so one essentially gets 75% of pig skin instead of 50% during relocation. I recommend setting houses on fire and extinguishing them right after pig starts to transform, because if one just hammers the house and pig skin spawns too close to the pig it can instantly turn into werepig and start eating pig skin.

Also even for regular worlds I would recommend putting ice flingomatics nearby so one can force pigs out of houses any time. In that case full moon pig farm is no different in lights out than in regular world, but one have more time to kill all werepigs.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

What else remains as a renewable source of gold? Moleworm farm (they function at night, not just dusk, right?), earthquakes, fishing for Wurt's merm king?

Aside from mining initial amount of gold-containing boulders earthquakes become primary way to get more gold outside of character-specific solutions (like Merm king). It's not as bad as it seems though, because caves are generally more lit than surface (so one is encouraged to stay there) and player will need to go there more often anyway until celestial crown or thurible + materials for forest stalker are obtained. Moleworm way is too inefficient in my opinion, since it's only 6.6% chance per burrow to get gold, and it's completely out of one's way.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Are catcoons out at night or do you need to hammer (or burn and put out) their house to make them come out?

Catcoons are out at night, their behaviour is the same in both lights out and normal worlds. The only time they return to hollow stumps is when it's raining.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Does Wickerbottom's birds of the world book work?

Yes, it works, but birds fly away immediately after landing. However, you can freeze them (dwarf star + ice flingomatics is the most reliable method out of all) and put traps under frozen birds to catch them, or put birds to sleep (so the ones that are still flying drop stunned to the ground, giving player time to pick them). Alternatively you can craft a lot of bird traps, so birds that land right on traps will be caught (this works despite birds trying to fly away immediately).

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Jet feathers for feather pencils come from pengulls though

This works, but one should be aware of the fact that since pengulls are permanently asleep they don't move to the nesting place. That means they don't lay any eggs and often it's hard to find them again in complete darkness without map icon to indicate their location.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

So it's better to have body slot seasonal clothing + miner hat if you want to use a walking cane

Not only walking cane, but all tools and weapons. Yes, difference between miner hat and lantern increases drastically in lights out, especially since player is going to be insane at night more time than usual, and lantern's light dims (only visually, but that makes huge difference regardless) with both decrease of player's sanity and decrease of fuel in it, unlike miner hat (light of which remains the same regardless of fuel left in it). Rushing moggles helps in early game as well, and even later for things like finding no-eyed deers and sailing it's very noticeble upgrade from other light sources.

I have long-term world in lights out, and here I almost didn't use eyebrella. On foot I prefer rain coat, and on beefalo - umbrella. Works with celestial crown nicely, and even though umbrella + celestial crown is 90% of rain protection, it's enough to not get wet. Plus giant trees at base eventually will cover that remaining 10% if one decides to grow them.

If one wishes to use lantern and head insulation, taming beefalo is another option. It's more inconvenient than in normal world, but it brings more benefit than in normal world as well (compared to the state without beefalo), for example, ability to move fast with lantern and keeping ability use head clothing (head gear) with convenience.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

I'm very unsure about how bee boxes work at night. Do they produce any honey at all?

They produce honey like in regular world if unloaded. That means that honey is produced at slow rate as long as it's not winter and there is at least 1 flower near bee box.

I'm not sure if bees come out of bee boxes if dwarf star is nearby (since I don't know if they check for light source at the beginning of each "day" or for daytime), but if it works, it's another option.

To build bee boxes you can light bee hives, catch bees while it's on fire and extinguish it. It's much more convenient to do as Willow or with scalemail; one also needs to be quick because otherwise bee hive will turn to ash. Bees have to be caught while hive is burning, because otherwise they return to it immediately. I guess one can put them to sleep though, but I find scalemail + watering can be convenient enough.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Can you feed a beefalo while it's asleep if you want to ride it? 

Feeding it initially to put saddle on is a pain in the butt. If you try to put saddle on it with 0 obedience it will attack you, and fall asleep immediately after it calms down. One option is to bond it to the bell and run long distance with it, so beefalo awakes to get to the bell; one should prepare to spend whole day on it though, because very often beefalo falls asleep even before catching up to the player. Sometimes player will have enough time to put like 2 lightbulbs in it's mouth, and after that one can safely put saddle, try to mount beefalo, and while it performs declining animation, feed it more.

So saddling it initially and in case it drops saddle is complicated (to say the least), but after that it's much more bearable.

Also because it's always night, beefalo always sleeping while not mounted; sanity drain leads to insanity monsters often attacking; those 2 facts in combination make taming ornery is less beneficial compared to normal world since one would need to perform additional animation every time one needs to fight shadows (and other enemies). Default beefalo is stronger in lights out than ornery, and the difference is even more pronounced than in regular world, at least with the way I play.

Since it's always night, beefalo doesn't loose domestication while not ridden (while it sleeps), so there is even less need for salt licks than usually (I don't build them even in regular worlds though). Also since it's always night and beefalo is asleep, it's more convenient to bring it on the boat for sailing, since it doesn't visually block things while wandering on boat aimlessly.

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Infinite night means you have an entire day to fight the eye of terror or the twins.

But remeber that your time is still limited. If you activate terrarium and EoT/ToT are still in the world, you can't reactivate it, which means that if you activate terrarium on day 1, fight through day 1 and 2, at the beginning of day 3 Twins will despawn and terrarium will become inactive since technically you "skipped" night during 2nd "day".

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Are there any more limitations and/or benefits that you know?

Pearl's quests. On one hand, she is nocturnal in lights out so she is always out of her house; on the other hand, friendship point from planting flowers is not an option, so one either needs to do all non-fishing tasks (including giving seasonal clothing for both rain and snow, and retrieve junk around her island), or complete 1 fishing task compared to most widespread set of tasks people usually complete.

You can't switch head light sources for other hats on the go to get benefits from both, so running with tam at day/dusk and miner hat at night is not an option to stay at high sanity, for example.

You can be forever completely insane after activating moonstorms. Since there is no day, lunacy effect is present 100% of the time, so there is no inconvenience of staying semi-insane compared to regular world, or fighting shadow monsters once day comes when you are fully insane.

Another benefit of lights out is long full moon, so you have enough time to do both moonstone event and pick glommer on the other side of the map during same full moon. Or do multiple moonstone events in autumn, do more moonstone events per night in other seasons than usually.

Not only wildfires are off, but birds are not spawning normally, which means your world isn't drowning in rot after some time passes, because birds don't drop all those seeds. That means tumbleweeds and fruit flies are the only source of regular seeds for birdcage, though.

Since bird requires some grinding (and option is not available for Webber and Wortox), one should consider using alternative recipes instead those with egg requirement. Flower salad instead of perogie, honey ham instead of bacon and eggs, etc.

One can still get gunpowder at reasonable point in playthrough, but for that one needs to plan and catch mutated bird from moonstorm.

One can shave sea weeds any time, as well as relocate them much more easily. Since they don't wake up even if another one is attacked nearby, are stunlockable and are always asleep during permanent night, one can set up barnacle farm easier, without fear of day coming before one is done killing sea weed and without need to wait between nights.

Forest stalkers are not dying with day coming since there is no day, which means they can be used as sanity station if paired with Bee Queen crown (with thurible or blocked by lureplants).

Spiders are always out though, which might be angerous if there are too much of them (especially since it's dark and player can't see a lot). Clearing red mushroom forest from spitters is more dangerous and complicated because of that.

Early game priorities shift. Instead of normal exploration one needs to rush better light sources, and use extra means of sanity restoration, or use moggles and proper weapons in early game.

If one wants to fight bosses, rushing ruins for star caller staff increases in value immensely.

Bats are coming out of cave entrance only when it's initially opened, so there is no harm in basing right near it, and there is no need for bunnymen/other mobs nearby.

One starts to freeze after less autumn days have passed, and starts to overheat later through summer (in terms of days since it's beginning).

Glossammer saddle is not available in reasonable time periods. So it's either war or regular one, which changes my early game, for example.

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5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

you can equip them a saddle and try to ride them to wake them up. Also i guess they wake up to follow you if they are linked to a bell

As far as I remember, there was problem with that when obedience was extremely low (<10%) since beefalo would attack you if you try to put saddle on it. On the other hand you can't wake it up by click if you don't have saddle on it. And even when you run away with bonded bell and make it chase you, it tends to fall back asleep very quickly.

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10 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:
  • Always needing a light source. So it's better to have body slot seasonal clothing + miner hat if you want to use a walking cane.
  • Permanent sanity drain.

I personally felt in love with the magiluminescence while playing this mode. With the permanent sanity drain you'll always have fuel to refuel it while lantern/miner hat you'll need to go to cave "often" and you have speed boost on top of that !

 

Limitation:

Spiders wont go back home (I lost a run dying on my way back of the labyrinth forgeting that they wont despawn ...)

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15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

When I tried to play this way I felt like it wasn’t a fully fleshed out “Mode” I had a lot of fun with Chapter 5 Darkness in Solo DS, but the actual mode in DST could use some work..

 

This might be a good time to ask for tweaks to Lights Outs since the devs proudly put it forward as a separate mode and not something hidden in world settings. 

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Gold will probably be one of the constant problems in a Light Outs world.

You may want to find alternative methods for breakint boulders/petrified trees/marble shrubs, as these can eat through gold pickaxes fast.

Though, if you have a handful of green gems, you can trade 3 green gems for 20 gold via duping them with the scaled chest. Telelocator focus is probably better however, you get 1 less gold per dupe, but you also get 2 nightmare fuel and 2 living logs per dupe.

Forced earthquakes with Wicker's books is also a good idea, but it gets rather boring after a while and having 20+nightmare creatures constantly swarming you isn't really ideal.

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22 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

You can also trap him on docks, he has less chance to commit Jesus.

the bulbs will grow. Therefore he is on a boat, you can do this on land, but then his eyes will interfere

image.thumb.png.c5f7311398086950f66bcba7919069b6.png

but if it’s all the same to the eyes, then you can use 2 bulbs and he won’t be able to escape

image.thumb.png.aeca97d2930092a8dcdd77001caaa4fe.png

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On 10/14/2022 at 11:45 PM, SonicDen220 said:

Farm crops don't grow at night. They only do with a star caller staff (or Wickerbottom's light book), but it's not very affordable or worth it.

The lights that can grow crops are super cheap and long lasting. This is probably the best use they have. Plus, it illuminates your base as well so you need less light.

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On 10/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, GodIess said:

I have some worries that he will run away due to some bug

this mechanic isnt really a bug but mobs tend to load before objects like lureplants, fossils, statues etc.

so over a long period of time its possible that the stalker with just walk through the lureplants before they have a chance to load in.

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15 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

this mechanic isnt really a bug but mobs tend to load before objects like lureplants, fossils, statues etc.

so over a long period of time its possible that the stalker with just walk through the lureplants before they have a chance to load in.

The ability of a stalker to walk on water is already a mistake, but the fact that he can get out of the trap is no less a mistake, because it should not be so

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