Jump to content

Limitations and benefits of Lights Out?


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Loonytoony said:

Wait it can?

Currently forest stalker ignores boat border entirely. It would be cool to have a way to refuel moggles at sea and use it as portable sanity station (paired with Bee Queen crown) before killing Fuelweaver, but unless player traps skeleton via lureplants (like on land) or brings thurible, it's going to just walk away into open ocean and possibly hammer everything on the main boat while passing through it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think all of that is whats interesting about the lights out world.
Since it is supposed to make the player think differently as opposed to using the standard methods of play in a normal world.
What lights out does for itself is good.
what others have mentioned with adding maxwell lights would be a good start  to help out early games a bit more.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turns out beefalo can actually lose domestication while sleeping afterall...

Fully tamed an ornery in the middle of spring on year 3, then left it alone for a really long time (until winter year 4) and when I tried to ride it, it lost its domesticated status and the ride time became really short. That's unfortunate.

But at least I busted a myth, apparently!

image.png image.png.5f6b1ab653fc0cf54322e4f5aa6f2805.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From my experience:

It feels like playing WX is cheating on this mode, you can get nightvision very early and cheaply into the game, removing at least half of the problems permanently. 

As for Wicker's full moons, they are only limited to the surface world, and getting the initial black feather for the library can be a pain to obtain (usually not available until winter, unless the RNG gods bless you with a catcoon spitting one out, or a tumble drops one. I never got it that way).
Unless you rush living at moon island or in the lunar grotto, her perks also summon more nightmares creatures, ontop of the ones that haunt you all the time. Since she has the highest sanity pool, she is insane all the time until you get a tam. Her early game gameplay, despite having advantages from the extra knowledge, was very stressful.

Wurt is actually the most convenient way to both be able to hold a farm and get gold: you'd only need to keep a steady supply of living logs and yellow gems to craft starcallers for the farms to grow, but other than that the Merm king gives seeds and gold from sea fish. Wurt also makes killing Dfly easier (thus powering your life in starcallers/mooncallers is viable) and the merms work at night. She also has a passive extra sanity boost through holding fish to stay sane in the early game, when you are most vulnerable.

Wanda has an easier time killing nightmare creatures which in turn also keep powering her weapons and progress, living semi-nomad as Wanda with a Magi can prove an easier experience (at least compared to Wicker)

Overall I found the lights out mode too grindy and stressful for my liking, usually spending 3/4 of the time fighting nightmare creatures, but I may give it another try when Maxwell's rework is out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Turns out beefalo can actually lose domestication while sleeping afterall...

I'm sorry for misinformation then. To be fair that is that rare case when I didn't confirm it myself by testing it or looking directly in the code (I can't really do the latter because I don't understand lua fully); I heard it on MisutoM stream sometime around year of the beefalo. At that time there was a bug of beefalo never waking up if it was put to sleep in the caves, and streamer used it in megabase world to keep domesticated beefalo when one needed it without constantly putting salt licks or riding it. It seemed to work, but there was no way to be 100% sure as a viewer, because there was no way to keep track of beefalo's state in general, let alone check maximum riding time to calculate domestication percentage. That bug was fixed, but fix just made beefalos waking up to loose domestication normally, as far as I can tell. Also I heard about beefalo not loosing domestication here on the forum:

 

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Overall I found the lights out mode too grindy and stressful for my liking, usually spending 3/4 of the time fighting nightmare creatures, but I may give it another try when Maxwell's rework is out. 

I'm not sure about normal gameplay at relatively slow pace in lights out, but I never met these problems while rushing Celestial Champion in light out as both Wickerbottom and Wendy, so I was surprised by you comment, to be honest. Drop in difficulty is expectable after obtaining crown, but even before moonstorms activation I somehow didn't feel all that stress you mentioned, and I activated moonstorms around day 70 (before recent QoL with change of requirements of Pearl's house upgrade). When I think about it, I gained sanity in variety of ways:

Spoiler

- during very first days I rushed grotto (and got some moon shrooms from it along with living logs for future ruins), then while I was relatively sane thanks to shrooms I killed some spiders, werepigs and started beefalo taming;

- at that point I was fighting shadows, but 2-hitting them along with going to the caves and fighting in lightbulb fields made them not much of a threat, also moggles in the caves can be easily refueled;

- during ruins rush (with beefalo) I was insane most of the time, but I was using moggles; as for beefalo, I fed it with lots of lichen for 2 purposes: to always be able to hop on it's back and fight enemy, and to gain some pudgy points as I wanted default beefalo tendency (succeeded);

- after ruins rush I used miner hat while mining rocks for moonstone and killed shadows. They were a bit annoying, but that phase ended quickly once I fully tamed beefalo (default with regular saddle) and never had to worry about obedience anymore;

- then I killed Klaus, and I raised sanity a bit with dwarf star + killed shadows as needed since I had enough speed boosts to do it while kiting Klaus (I tried it in 2 variants: on beefalo and with cane + magi);

- in spring I gained a lot of sanity by prototyping boat stuff and during sailing itself I used thulecite suit (alternated it with rain coat) and dried kelp (I built drying rack on boat) (I used moggles almost entire time so no tam for sanity; I crafted 5 moggles back in winter after ruins rush);

- after that I finally used tam for a bit during quest in archives, but tam wasn't necessity; in other run I did archives late winter with only difference being bringing rain coat;

- then I fished in oasis for desert goggles recipe in the light of polar light;

- finished Pearl's quests and used part of picked cacti for restoring sanity before continuing sea activities;

- killed Crab King with bees;

- activated moonstorms and at that point sanity stopped to be an issue.

In Wendy run her reduced sanity drain helped to stay sane on boat by only wearing thulecite suit and occasionally eating crock pot foods/dried kelp (even in spring there were periods without rain), in Wickerbottom run I could force full moon and use thulecite suit along with eyebrella all the time and some cooked cacti/dried kelp (I didn't use much though) to stay somewhat sane on boat; I also visited lunar island in spring, so I raised my sanity on fissures as well.

I also didn't sleep in any of the ruins and didn't pick a single flower somehow.

Edit: in spring I also killed Bee Queen in both runs; casting 2 dwarf stars on top of each other or 1 dwarf star + polar light (2 polar lights if it's early enough in spring and winter insulation still works) was enough to raise sanity before the fight and/or kill shadows as if it was a day.

I remember game being stressful in failure ruins were I tried to get away only with lanterns/torches and went insane too early (without beefalo, armor and proper weapons, i.e. something better than spear, especially as Wendy), as well as generally running with 0 sanity on foot while not wearing moggles, but miner hat was already enough to get rid of most stress and flip statistics of death and successful survival, and early moggles did it even with greater result. I wonder how you played - maybe some little things could improve it greatly for you?

Edit: in spoiler above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

<SNIP>

I remember game being stressful in failure ruins were I tried to get away only with lanterns/torches and went insane too early (without beefalo, armor and proper weapons, i.e. something better than spear, especially as Wendy), as well as generally running with 0 sanity on foot while not wearing moggles, but miner hat was already enough to get rid of most stress and flip statistics of death and successful survival, and early moggles did it even with greater result. I wonder how you played - maybe some little things could improve it greatly for you?

Those were good tips, on hindsight I normally always go for an ornery beefalo and I did the same for the Wicker playthrough, which caused to be her demise, the beefalo proved very hard to wake up to feed every time I needed him to tank something or to run away so I kept getting sneaky terrorbeak hits and fighting 2 shadows at 10 health. I think the most far I got was when I died around day 70 to nightmares, I was very frustrated by then and deleted the world.
I didn't think about going for a default beef, I'll try that.
 

Spoiler


My Wurt playthrough was mostly to set up a merm king base, which I managed to do rather quickly but I got bored once I got to that point. My Wanda Playthrough was mostly a ruins rush and setting up a shadow manipulator as fast as possible. It went smooth, I didn't play anymore after the first winter though. 

 

7 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

Turns out beefalo can actually lose domestication while sleeping afterall...

Fully tamed an ornery in the middle of spring on year 3, then left it alone for a really long time (until winter year 4) and when I tried to ride it, it lost its domesticated status and the ride time became really short. That's unfortunate.

But at least I busted a myth, apparently!

Lakhnish found a long time ago a bug where tamed beefalos, if left unloaded for way too long, even with enough salt licks to sustain them for the time abandoned, would still lose domestication.
If this wasn't patched, it may be related to the same problem. So it is possible that it is not a lights out thing, but more of a beefalo unloaded for too long thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I didn't think about going for a default beef, I'll try that.

If you decide to do so, here are a couple of not very well-known things. While one can get default beefalo as long as points of any tendency don't exceed sum of other two, there is constant decay of tendency points as long as beefalo is not near salt lick (even if it countinues to gain domestication, and even if it continues to gain tendency points in question), moreover, that passive loss is enough to delete all of your 2-2.25 days (over course of roughly 20 days) worth of pudgy points if you gain them in the very beginning of domestication, so you may end up in a situation when window for default beefalo completely disappers despite cow clearly gaining some pudgy points. I still think that feeding beefalo well in early days is worth it because of low buck timer (in some normal ruins I managed to domesticate it after 20.5-21 days with this method), but keeping beefalo fed for 3-5 days wouldn't be a problem with recent QoL because of steamed twigs. Another tip: beefalo gains quite a few pudgy points, looses 30 obedience and 2% of domestication per overfeed (i.e. going over 375 hunger), but if one overfeeds beefalo before putting saddle on it and in the very beginning of domestication, one can get a lot of pudgy points with very little penalty (it is tricky in lights out, but doable). Also beefalo gains pudgy points while it's above 50% of hunger; however, it starts to beg for food under 45% (and it's a chance to perform animation), so in order to maximise pudgy points via steamed twigs I recommend to watch day-night clock instead.

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Lakhnish found a long time ago a bug where tamed beefalos, if left unloaded for way too long, even with enough salt licks to sustain them for the time abandoned, would still lose domestication.

Seems accurate since I tried beefalo domestication a few times before year of the beefalo (didn't like it though), and one time I left beefalo with 2 full salt licks, returned after roughly 25 days (2 salt licks should have been enough), but beefalo went wild despite that. That was the last time I tried to tame beefalo before year of the beefalo, and before at least bug with beefalo loosing 10x domestication than intended was fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Lakhnish found a long time ago a bug where tamed beefalos, if left unloaded for way too long, even with enough salt licks to sustain them for the time abandoned, would still lose domestication.
If this wasn't patched, it may be related to the same problem. So it is possible that it is not a lights out thing, but more of a beefalo unloaded for too long thing.

It was actually loaded the whole time. I left it in a part of the base where it's always visible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/8/2022 at 10:35 AM, SonicDen220 said:

Turns out beefalo can actually lose domestication while sleeping afterall...

Fully tamed an ornery in the middle of spring on year 3, then left it alone for a really long time (until winter year 4) and when I tried to ride it, it lost its domesticated status and the ride time became really short. That's unfortunate.

But at least I busted a myth, apparently!

Errr... if you place a single saltlick next to the beefalo and then wake it up, domestication wont decay and it wont lick up the saltlick while asleep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/15/2022 at 12:45 AM, SonicDen220 said:

Beefalos always sleep, which means very easy beefalo wool. Can you feed a beefalo while it's asleep if you want to ride it?

You can drop something underneath a beefalo that is cheap, like a log, grass or stick, or lightbulb to light it on fire and the beefalo will wake up to investigate and say hi before trying to sleep again lol. Plenty of time to feed it with no risk to the beefalo since it regenerates pretty fast.

Hmm, everyone else gave really good information on the rest of the tips already. My only real experience with Lights Out was the final mission of Adventure Mode, and even then I never beelined faster for the next Maxwell gate to escape that lol. The Maxwell Lights also made it much more easier I imagine.

However I can definitely see the fun in it after this thread!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/15/2022 at 6:45 AM, SonicDen220 said:

Birds don't appear

You can still catch a bird with bird trap, no need for book or catcoon. Bait the trap and unload it (walk away far enough) thers 50% chance for a bird to be trapped every time its unloaded and baited (yeh thats how code is written)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So after playing lights out for almost 500 days nights, I'm going to go over my actual experience.

I started as Wendy and played her for the most part. Yeah, Abigail is great as expected, reduced sanity drain is good. First few nights were just on torches, as expected. Got a lantern and a miner hat as soon as I found a cave entrance. Afterwards did a ruins rush for moggles, magiluminescence and star caller staff. Basically every light source acquired. Also had light bulbs in my inventory the whole time. And using flint tools only wasn't even that bad.

After doing the ruins and setting up a base in the oasis desert (reasons: volt goats, cactus and the fact that moon storms can't happen there). My first consistent food sources were: volt goats, killer bee biome and spiders. All of those combined to make honey ham.

By the way, spiders in lights out are really annoying, even as Wendy, because they wander far away from their nests, never go back and spider queens only "update their status" when they are awake (which means if one shows up from a t3 nest, it's going to stay in the world without turning into a t1 nest for a looong time because it sleeps) 

Night 50 - got myself a birdcage (seeds were from tumbleweeds, didn't take long at all) with a bird (from a catcoon, which took about 3 days). Now all the excess spider meat gets turned into eggs. Bacon and eggs became my #1 food for the rest of the playthrough. Plus this gave access to gunpowder, which means a marble farm. Drying racks were built afterwards to preserve the meat for much longer.

Switched a few times to Winona (to build catapults at fuelweaver), to Maxwell (to build magician's boxes in several places), to Wolfgang (to assemble the celestial altars in spring) and to Wurt (to obtain gold from ocean fishing)

Night 332 is when I activated the moon storms. Night 441 is when I killed the celestial champion. The only bosses I haven't killed yet are malbatross and toadstool.  

I need to mass produce feathers for the toadstool star+flingo method and for feather pencils to finally mark chests at base. I used splorange's feather farming method combined with a star + flingo (because at night birds will fly away as soon as they land). And yeah, I needed to farm a pumpkin for a scarecrow to get a canary to summon misery toad.

image.thumb.jpeg.cbc7a7ec58a1872e805f2c09e294f431.jpeg

I never actually built bee boxes at any point...

Also, beefalo are kinda jank. Not just in the taming process (as I previously described), but also in their baby form or shaved state. It's weird how at some points babies just didn't grow and I needed to visit them several times for them to advance their growth. Same with shaving, it seems incosistent when they grow or don't grow their wool back.

unknown.png

Pigs during moon storms are also kinda jank. I thought they would be werepigs all the time if moon storms are active, but they only turn into werepigs when they come out of their house.

image.thumb.jpeg.a33be99afe3f61cf47892019467913f9.jpeg

I can point out at least 3 more noteworthy advantages to lights out:

  • Mosquitoes. Since they show up for the entire night, this means you can kill them at any time and mosquito sacks are much easier to obtain (cause in a normal world you usually go to the swamp at daytime). Easy mosquito sacks -> easy water balloons -> you can use them on dragonfly combined with a morning star (it only takes about a stack of water balloons if it enrages 3 times) -> you have a high damage weapon and you don't use a lot of resources. Suddenly morning star became my go-to weapon for dragonfly, maybe even in normal playthroughs.
  • Low ambient temperature at the very start of spring means the first time it rains, things will stay wet for much longer than usual, sometimes even until another rain starts. Again, great for morning star usage. 
  • Moon storms. Not only do you get every benefit of a full moon permanently, not only do you completely remove the need of any light sources, but you also remove sanity management entirely. This makes several perks, namely Wickerbottom's books and Maxwell's spells completely free. Plus full moons are very pleasing to the eyes.

TL;DR: You can overcome lights out and every obstacles it presents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont personally feel like there are any significant advantages. Moreso there are noteworthy attibutes.
 

Instead I’ll run through some quickfire tips on lights out in no particular order.

pigs: burn their house and use ice/watering can/ice flingo to put it out to get them outside of their house, feed them immediately so they dont run back in. Pigs never leave their house naturally so doing this on full moon allows for 1v1s against werepigs

bunnymen are great for dealing with threats as they are always active. 
 

Get into the habit of flashing your map open and closed, it lets you see resources outside of your circle of light. 
 

Burn trees to chop other trees and see smaller resources like flowers.

 

To chop rocks, burn singular logs, its long enough for 3 rocks if you’re fast and much cheaper than a campfire.

Bees can be acquired by burning a hive. Regular bees spawn, not killer. Beehives will only passively gain honey while unloaded (1 a day this works during winter aswell in regular play) once yoy have one beehive, harvest to spawn more bees.

Managing your equipment is a lot tighter in lights out. You dont NEED that backpack, and its a lot easier to fight with chest armor and a head light with your weapon. 

 

have backup lights. A torch precrafted, a second lantern, a campfire precrafted. If you’re being chased you probably wont be able to stop and craft a torch if yours runs out, and sometimes you need to abandon your lantern. 
 

reviving is much harder in lights out, you cant grab things unless you can see them. Fireflies can easily light up a mining hat or turned off lantern. Alternatively seek out permanent light like the moon stone. 
 

Sanity restoring equipment is invaluable. get at least a tophat shortly after getting reliable light. If you’re not fighting, wear it. The resources saved are immense.

Growing green mushrooms is a good idea, i may be biased as a wormwood enjoyer, but they stay fresh indefinitely and being able to grab a half dozen green mushrooms quickly is quite helpful. Keep them underground or winter will ruin your harvest.

red and green mushrooms will never come up again, so dig them asap. Red is good filler, and green is 15 sanity. 

(wurt specifically)

dont farm, its not worth the effort. Imho. Just rush the island for kelp and stonefruit and make trailmix or butter muffin (lunar butterflies) for healing, alternatively, blue mushrooms.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Benefits:

- Catcoon morsel farms: Pen a catcoon in with a rock or a piece of flint and surround it with moles. Since the moles don't go to sleep every time they spawn they will try to get into the catcoon cage and evolve into their final form.

- Farm Seed Storage: Since crops don't grow without the starcaller star as you noted, farm plots can be used as indefinite storage for whatever seeds you acquire

- Ocean's Bounty: Basing near the water is a massive boon, Wobsters are also always awake during Lights Out mode, meaning you'll have access to easy lobster bisque (+60 hp food) whenever you want. One wobster, one ice, two twigs.

Also, if you haven't developed a respect for fig trees and their recipes yet, you absolutely will with this mode. Grow some near your LO base.

- Krampus farming is significantly easier since they go to sleep shortly after arriving

- The Eye of Terror & Twins are always active until you go out of range, combine this with the slurtle shell (or berry bush hat if you're brave) for easy, on demand solo boss cheese

- Pearl is always awake, no more working around her schedule

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a sudden realization. If you somehow destroy any sketch that is required for the shadow chess pieces, it's gone permanently in a lights out world. Normally after you assemble the sculptures, you'd be able to get black/white rook/bishop/knight trinkets from a tumbleweed and trade them to pig king for a sketch. But because pig king is always asleep, that's not an option. That hasn't happened to me, but still, it's worth pointing out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2022 at 11:00 PM, SonicDen220 said:

I never actually built bee boxes at any point...

They can still work in Lights Out, but you need them to be far away so that they work unloaded, and have a flower nearby.

Flowers in Lights Out don't regrow even in Spring in my experience and there's no butterfly to plant unless you play chance with Catcoon, and the bees will sleep in eternal night. They are basically non-renewable.

On 11/23/2022 at 11:00 PM, SonicDen220 said:

Pigs during moon storms are also kinda jank. I thought they would be werepigs all the time if moon storms are active, but they only turn into werepigs when they come out of their house.

Werepigs have a timer before they revert back, even in full moon. And once they revert back they will not turn into Werepigs again. Pig farms are really janky in Light Outs.

 

On 11/23/2022 at 11:00 PM, SonicDen220 said:

By the way, spiders in lights out are really annoying, even as Wendy, because they wander far away from their nests, never go back and spider queens only "update their status" when they are awake (which means if one shows up from a t3 nest, it's going to stay in the world without turning into a t1 nest for a looong time because it sleeps)

The Dangling Depth Dwellers are extremely annoying in Lights Out because they will never return to their home after you trigger them. Try to kill them if you happen to trigger the web.

11 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

I had a sudden realization. If you somehow destroy any sketch that is required for the shadow chess pieces, it's gone permanently in a lights out world. Normally after you assemble the sculptures, you'd be able to get black/white rook/bishop/knight trinkets from a tumbleweed and trade them to pig king for a sketch. But because pig king is always asleep, that's not an option. That hasn't happened to me, but still, it's worth pointing out.

I wonder if you give the chess pieces to Antlion, will you get the sketches?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
  • Create New...