[Suggestion] Shadow Inspired Willow buff?

[Harrowick]

Seeing the recent Wickerbottom short gave me some inspiration for a buff to Willow. I thought of a little upgrade to Willow's lighter, a shadow lighter that produces shadow flames very similar to the Night Light.

The idea behind this lighter is a "controlled fire" mechanic, anything that Willow burns with this lighter would instead burn with shadow flames that do not spread to anything nearby, and on top of that, the shadow flames could do improved fire damage as well as not burn the loot on death!

I feel like it would give Willow a nice little boost of players + incentivize more Shadow Manipulators? I think it would tie in nicely with her whole nightmare farming capability.

(demo image using a night light's fire!)

They could just use the night light's pre-existing fire animation to make it easier to implement by only requiring coding!

[ADM]

I like that the way it's proposed, an upgrade, cause by default it's clear Willow doesn't mind how much fire eats on its way. Might even be better if the Night Light was the way to get the flame, by having the lighter equipped and a sort of "Take Flame" action added to change it ? Could also be applied to endo flames just for slowing a little more overheating ? I think I would like that a lot !

[HowlVoid]

Willow unlocks amaterasu, because she killed Wickerbottom.

Very nice. 

[-Variant]

Willow has been sorta falling into an awkward spot that makes me want to say she's in need of a touch up, much akin to Wortox/Wurt recently.
I'm all for this. Any sort of change or mechanic to allow her to actually play with fire without putting everyone else at risk would be wonderful. 

[Fill-Lips]

1 hour ago, ADM said:

I like that the way it's proposed, an upgrade, cause by default it's clear Willow doesn't mind how much fire eats on its way. Might even be better if the Night Light was the way to get the flame, by having the lighter equipped and a sort of "Take Flame" action added to change it ? Could also be applied to endo flames just for slowing a little more overheating ? I think I would like that a lot !

Ooo, I do like that idea of taking fires with the lighter to imbue said lighter with that fire.

Could maybe even add a new structure to moon tab that's reverse of night light, gain sanity, but if that's too much, maybe it causes an area of effect drowsiness? I'm just spitballing here...

[Frosty_Mentos]

I feel like Wigfrid getting the fire resistance song doesn't feel right when we got a firestarter that could be providing people with that. Her having more powerful controlled flames would be neat, like heating the enemies into death instead of burning them or something.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Willow unlocks amaterasu, because she killed Wickerbottom.

Very nice. 

I love how this joke creates even more lore implications in context.

[Terra_Zina]

Hey, I remember this suggestion when the reworks were announced! Some...

*checks notes*

3 YEARS AGO?!?? No...no that can't be right...

Existential dread aside, honestly I love this idea! Not only would she get a fire related buff, but also potentially lore friendly too. Two birds with one stone!

And I know craftables were memed on during this time. But honestly? Hot take, special craftables were always cool. Meters drool.

6 hours ago, -Variant said:

Willow has been sorta falling into an awkward spot that makes me want to say she's in need of a touch up, much akin to Wortox/Wurt recently.

I agree wholeheartedly. When Willow's rework was new, she was strong. Not OP by any means. But she was useful granted the Willow in question didn't troll. It was either feast of famine when a Willow joined the server. Especially if you had a Maxwell.

Now wait a minute... accidental lore implications years in advance?? 4D chess move by Klei

Tbh getting a bit of attention wouldn't hurt, especially now when she's in a bit of a spotlight. While there's nothing inherently wrong with her, unlike the case with Wortox, she has just fallen behind (again)

[maxwell_winters]

9 hours ago, KM_Harrowick said:

I thought of a little upgrade to Willow's lighter, a shadow lighter that produces shadow flames very similar to the Night Light.

YES. Actually, a similar idea crossed my mind yesterday. I also had an idea of throwable explosives (like Coconade) and a shadow or Ancient upgrade to them that doesn't burn loot. 

8 hours ago, -Variant said:

Willow has been sorta falling into an awkward spot that makes me want to say she's in need of a touch up, much akin to Wortox/Wurt recently.

I would argue that Willow needs more than that. Wurt and Wortox got tweaks and QoL to their pre-existing mechanics. Willow needs new mechanics. I think reworks of Willow, Woodie and Winona feel half-baked now if we compare them with recent ones like WX-78. 

[Stonetribe]

8 hours ago, KM_Harrowick said:

flames that do not spread to anything nearby, and on top of that, the shadow flames could do improved fire damage as well as not burn the loot on death!

Would love it if this just applied to any kind of "weaponized" fire item that Willow uses, fire staffs and fire darts being the two main examples. Would love to see some buffs/QOL tweaks for Bernie as well.

Please, keep up the Willow discussions my fellow forumites. With the recent Wortox attention, I feel like another character touch up side update is looming around the corner. ^_^

[Dragonboooorn]

I like how everyone get a magic or shadow magic bonuses in their rework, but Maxwell look like a clown around town now, lol

[Harrowick]

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I like how everyone get a magic or shadow magic bonuses in their rework, but Maxwell look like a clown around town now, lol

I'm sure Maxwell will take back his throne as best nightmare fuel user once he has seen a rework! I believeeee!

15 hours ago, ADM said:

I like that the way it's proposed, an upgrade, cause by default it's clear Willow doesn't mind how much fire eats on its way. Might even be better if the Night Light was the way to get the flame, by having the lighter equipped and a sort of "Take Flame" action added to change it ? Could also be applied to endo flames just for slowing a little more overheating ? I think I would like that a lot !

The "Take Flame" would be pretty cool! Imagine if each flame had unique upside/downsides, like shadow fire not being able to warm you up and only used for combat/single item burning, and endo flames not being able to turn things into ash, but makes anything you burn wet? Could pair well with lightning damage. 

[GrapeVruit]

1 hour ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I like how everyone get a magic or shadow magic bonuses in their rework, but Maxwell look like a clown around town now, lol

Yeah, how does a librarian show a better use of magic than the actual dark magician?

[-Variant]

8 hours ago, Terra_Zina said:

I agree wholeheartedly. When Willow's rework was new, she was strong. Not OP by any means. But she was useful granted the Willow in question didn't troll. It was either feast of famine when a Willow joined the server. Especially if you had a Maxwell.

 

8 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

I would argue that Willow needs more than that.

Fine. You got me... I cave in.
She needs a lot of attention. I was trying to suppress myself and not seem greedy but she really could use a handful of touch ups right now.

This is more of a personal note, but I wish her rework focused on her and not Bernie. She was made better in her rework but it feels like she's falling behind again. 
I love her, she's my favorite character, but I do get instances where people get onto me for picking her instead of literally any other character who can bring more to the table, which, needless to say, feels bad.

I don't think she oughta be a powerhouse or anything but I do think she could use far more interactive mechanics.
Something I miss is her cut downside from the rework where she'd cool down when insane:
I liked this downside because it was VERY in character, and it pushed players to play with fire more.
Losing sanity when going insane would prompt players to make fires (duh) which both increases her sanity and warms her up, this is a in-character mechanic as it goes to show her desire for starting fires, and the fact that this mechanic extends to making players also want to/desire to start a fire to survive just feels really damn good.

She got something close in the final product where she'd loose sanity when freezing, which is sorta the reverse of the old mechanic but I don't feel like its as interactive. The concept mechanic also brings in some neat interactions with seasons, as being insane via summer to stay cool would be pretty neat! 

I'd argue fire itself could also use change, since I don't imagine you can only work with Willow alone without touching fire in of itself.
I like how the UM mod does fire, where if a mob that's on fire dies, it drops its loot on fire instead of instantly burning. This lets prepared players save any potential loot if they come prepared with watering cans or water balloons! Also gears don't burn. Thank Alter.

All in all I think there's a lot to be done to both Willow and fire mechanics as a whole, I think Willow could use a handful of touch ups to bring her up to par with some other characters, I don't think she needs to be absurdly powerful or anything but a viable pick next to the other cast would be a dream.

[LiamAshvinn001]

This would be nice, tho i feel like Willow herself could use another rework along with Winona. My biggest problem with her is that she's worse at the 2 more interesting seasons, Winter and Spring and she's only good at Summer, the season a lot of ppl I know just disable. Her lighter could also use a rework, and I really hope it gets removed durability.

[Stonetribe]

1 hour ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

This would be nice, tho i feel like Willow herself could use another rework along with Winona. My biggest problem with her is that she's worse at the 2 more interesting seasons, Winter and Spring and she's only good at Summer, the season a lot of ppl I know just disable. Her lighter could also use a rework, and I really hope it gets removed durability.

Her disadvantage/advantage during winter/summer is actually pretty negligible. Winter clothing only get a -30 insulation penalty and her innate overheating resistance is also a measly 30 insulation. Honestly, I think that I'd like it if they turned up dial for both of these things, like her total winter insulation being cut in half while at the same time having outright immunity to over heating.

[LiamAshvinn001]

1 hour ago, Stonetribe said:

Her disadvantage/advantage during winter/summer is actually pretty negligible. Winter clothing only get a -30 insulation penalty and her innate overheating resistance is also a measly 30 insulation. Honestly, I think that I'd like it if they turned up dial for both of these things, like her total winter insulation being cut in half while at the same time having outright immunity to over heating.

Yea but its still annoying that shes best in the worst season and shes less good at the best seasons.

[flamboyant wolf]

4 hours ago, Stonetribe said:

Her disadvantage/advantage during winter/summer is actually pretty negligible. Winter clothing only get a -30 insulation penalty and her innate overheating resistance is also a measly 30 insulation. Honestly, I think that I'd like it if they turned up dial for both of these things, like her total winter insulation being cut in half while at the same time having outright immunity to over heating.

wait, so Blooming Wormwood is more heat resistant than Willow? 

why and how? 

[maxwell_winters]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:55 AM, KM_Harrowick said:

that Willow burns with this lighter would instead burn with shadow flames that do not spread to anything nearby, and on top of that, the shadow flames could do improved fire damage as well as not burn the loot on death!

I just had an idea for another effect. I should spoil eggs when they're "cooked" on it. It would speed up mass production of gunpowder.