So yes, the lunar grimoire still requires iridescent gem

[Duck986]

Whaddya think about this? Shall I remind you that when beta just appeared, its cost was 2 papyrus and 2 moon rocks instead.

I personally don't really care since I don't play Wickerbottom, I'm just interested in your opinions. But if you wonder about mine at the current moment - the present one is ok, since it allows you to farm opals pretty often and full moon is just a good bonus than a farming method most of the time.

[HowlVoid]

I'm over it. 

As others point it out it's very cool that you can go down to the archives and get two for free and can refund them with a deconstruction staff. That's a bit of Wicker+archives synergy and I'd honestly like to see more characters synergize with the world. My problem is people are butts. 

I'm sure that if I had friends I wouldn't have cared from the start.

Edit: I'd like to add that the yellow moon lense was probably my favorite substitute for the iridescent gem. It's essentially the same thing just skips a couple of steps.

[Cheggf]

Iridescent gems are easy to get in private servers. The only time they're difficult to obtain is if someone has taken them. The book isn't very good and the hard part of the recipe is the moon moth wings anyways so I don't think it should take the gem. 

Edit for clarity: when I say it isn't very good I don't mean it is bad. I mean compared to the rest of her books it's about as useful, yet the cost is disproportionately high for no reason. It can make a lot of food with a werepig farms, but she could already make a lot of food with books that cost a few seeds or a few eggs (aka monster meat) and get said food a lot faster and safer. It can start the moonstone event whenever you want which is pretty good, but it requires and consumes a scs. Is anyone really gonna be spam converting perfectly good scss for any reason other than trying to recoup the cost of this book? It has some things it can do but overall is pretty average and undeserving of such a recipe. I honestly think the 2 moon rock was fine but if it has to be a bit expensive for whatever reason just remove the iri and make it only cost wings, I'd say. 

[Creatorofswamps]

I still think that this is a beautiful, but maralno wrong recipe, robberies, prohibition in a world without caves, misunderstandings for beginners. it still persists, I really think the yellow lunar lens will solve these problems and do it right

[Cuernito.]

Its actually easier than you think to get the ingredients for that book. I dont main Wicker but i got all the books i wanted really early during my first match as her(it was a klei dedicated server btw)

People like to forget that she has one of the better if not the best early game of all cast. She doesnt need an alchemy engine at all. I just used the science machine to get all i needed to start my expedition to archives( i always find it fast, you just have to look for blue caps forest). I got some living logs from gnomes and i picked up the 2 moon gems(didnt know about the bookcase recipe change at this point), i went to surface and after destroying just one beehive i get all i needed for my fav book, apicultural notes. I crafted the bookcase and used it to make my bees book and i used my everything encyclopedia to craft a dark sword, then i went to explore the sea, pearl's bottles are always easy to find so i used that on my favor( by this point i had 8 bees), i arrived at perl's island and choped some trees to get my lunar month wings, and after being harassed by 2 pirate raids( yeah i have worst luck sometimes but with help of my bees and my ds they were easy drops) i finally made it to mainland and i crafted the lunar book on day 12. And i wasnt really rushing that book, remember that i crafted others book first included my fav.

So yep at the end of the day is not really that hard if you know what you are doing( the book is not really that good and worth it for all that btw).

[Cuernito.]

9 hours ago, Creatorofswamps said:

I still think that this is a beautiful, but maralno wrong recipe, robberies, prohibition in a world without caves, misunderstandings for beginners. it still persists, I really think the yellow lunar lens will solve these problems and do it right

Why do people want to make the recipe even harder to make lmao. Gonna tell you something, the lunar book is awful mediocre during early game, sure it could be really good to farm moonrocks or pigs or krampus sacks but all those things are mid to late game stuff. During early game the book is not worth it, if you want extra light just use the lux aeterna, its a lot better my friend c:.

And if you dont know why using a yellow gem instead of moon gem is actually worse then i guess you need more experience in this game. But i gonna explain it fast: ruins(yellow gem location) is a more dangerous place to stay than grotto/archives(moon gem location). And please dont try to say that yellow gems can be found in others places cause you know, all the other ways to get a yellow gem are strong rng based or as a drop from a boss(dragon fly, malbatross and twins). 

[Kur0u]

I have 9 iridescent gems gathering dust because nowadays I mostly take care of my long term world. As someone who used to play Wicker constantly, I really don't care, I'll probably have some of those and use it every now and then. People freak out about something they'll barely use on a character they just played during beta, sheesh.

[Mr.Tarunio]

Uhh its in a perfect state. its not like you are locked from ruins or dfly to do moon base and you can spam moon base event. also all you need is 2 in a book shelf and you can cycle as they heal up.

[HowlVoid]

6 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

And if you dont know why using a yellow gem instead of moon gem is actually worse then i guess you need more experience in this game.

 

Quote

But i gonna explain it fast: ruins(yellow gem location) is a most dangerous place to stay

 

Quote

drop from a boss(dragon fly, malbatross and twins).

I like how you accuse them of needing more experience and then subsequently call the ruins the most dangerous place. But don't even realize this is the cheapest recipe BECAUSE of experience.

But I'm gonna explain it fast:

The ruins is only dangerous to the inexperienced. A single moggles allows you to bypass every single danger and mine as many yellow gems off statues (which you can see based of color) as you can carry. The most I've gotten is 5.

Dragonfly, is only hard to the inexperienced. Also no, it's not RNG, one of each gem is always guranteed. 

For half to a full day, and basic kiting, you have 1 more guranteed gem. This can be quicker than even finding the grotto.

The methods above allow you to easily acquire far more than 2 lunar grimores before winter. And if you want more iridescent gems, than guess what? You'll not only need to do the above to collect yellow gems, you need green gems too, plus have enough night time to do enough lunar events to turn those yellow gems and autumn nights are short. Oh yeah, and living logs, but maybe you have a Wormwood handy; otherwise good luck. 

So you need green gems and enough time which can easily extend to days, so no it's not more expensive. Harder? Maybe. More expensive? Not really. 

An experienced player could collect enough grimores to keep the long nights of winter brighter than my future 24/7. But you say "it's bad early game", yet this change would still not only make it cheaper in the long run, but also faster.

I don't think you should accuse someone so arrogantly of being inexperienced if you're not experienced yourself. Just makes you look bad.

[ADM]

Once you get your first lunar grimoire then nothing is a problem again as for making more of them or just more Moon Caller's Staff, you have full moon on command so if your wish is to have full moon every nights and have multiple book, then it already gets tremendously faster to make more, so go for it with a specific timing once and you're good to roll with as many as you want it. Crafting Star Caller's Staff isn't that much of a big deal to farm and same for the Deconstruction one, you can save multiple uses of one for this purpose.

All I will agree with is that it would be nice to have those two items obtainable from surface only world (not that I'm affected by this directly but this is surely a problem to some, well aware not crafting a book isn't the first time they're missing on something anyway).

I've got my 3 grimoires, I'm rarely looking to have perma full moon so even one would have been enough for me, and last time I checked I had about 5 Moon Caller's Staff waiting in a corner and a few Star Caller's at 5% waiting at the stone, yeah it's a late world but doing any fragment of this isn't that much of an effort, only a short time investment then you're good with a very strong perk after doing a ruin trip and timed for a full moon.

[Captain_Rage]

It is in a good state now because once you obtain an Iridescent Gem the book can be refreshed and reused almost at a whim. It feels wise to have to venture to the Ruins in order to unlock such a potentially powerful ability. Wickerbottom has enough tricks that she can pull out of her rear without much effort already.

[Dextops]

4 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

such a potentially powerful ability.

k but what potentially powerful abilities does this hold cause the only thing i can think of is werepigs and if you do it right you'd have enough meat and pigskin for the next century.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Dextops said:

k but what potentially powerful abilities does this hold cause the only thing i can think of is werepigs and if you do it right you'd have enough meat and pigskin for the next century.

Pigskin, moon stone farm, glass farming, glom goop farm for hostile flares.

[Captain_Rage]

Farming Glommer / Krampus ad infinitum using full moon....? Probably even easier so since she can spawn tentacles everywhere. If the only requirement was moon rocks or something equally easily obtainable. Looks like some players want a character that can obtain every single item in the game within the first days or they won't be satisfied, lol. Lorewise it would feel very bad if Wickerbottom could meddle with the moon at a whim.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Pigskin, moon stone farm, glass farming, glom goop farm for hostile flares.

so you use an iridescent gem to get more iridescent gems so you can use them to make things to make more iridescent gems?
 

pigskin falls under pig loot and if you do it correctly you don't need to do it for a while, moon glass has barely any uses to make it useful and glommer goop for hostile flares isn't enough to make it op

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dextops said:

so you use an iridescent gem to get more iridescent gems so you can use them to make things to make more iridescent gems?

Sure why not?

17 minutes ago, Dextops said:

so you use an iridescent gem to get more iridescent gems so you can use them to make things to make more iridescent gems?
 

pigskin falls under pig loot and if you do it correctly you don't need to do it for a while, moon glass has barely any uses to make it useful and glommer goop for hostile flares isn't enough to make it op

Powerful and op are different things goop allows to call on rewarding encounters at will that have powerful loot which in turn makes it powerful, if nothing else glass makes glass cutters which are dark swords without sanity drain with high durability to boot vs shadow type enemies being able to stockpile them is decently powerful the book gives a variety of effects that allows multiple farms while also eliminating darkness that in turn makes it powerful.

[Well-met]

its perfectly fine

[abrocator]

6 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I like how you accuse them of needing more experience and then subsequently call the ruins the most dangerous place.

Could be that they meant that it is the most dangerous place to stay. Not necessarily that it is terribly dangerous in an absolute sense.

[user1464576869]

What's the durability anyway? Wiki isn't updated yet

[Cuernito.]

6 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

 

 

I like how you accuse them of needing more experience and then subsequently call the ruins the most dangerous place. But don't even realize this is the cheapest recipe BECAUSE of experience.

But I'm gonna explain it fast:

The ruins is only dangerous to the inexperienced. A single moggles allows you to bypass every single danger and mine as many yellow gems off statues (which you can see based of color) as you can carry. The most I've gotten is 5.

Dragonfly, is only hard to the inexperienced. Also no, it's not RNG, one of each gem is always guranteed. 

For half to a full day, and basic kiting, you have 1 more guranteed gem. This can be quicker than even finding the grotto.

The methods above allow you to easily acquire far more than 2 lunar grimores before winter. And if you want more iridescent gems, than guess what? You'll not only need to do the above to collect yellow gems, you need green gems too, plus have enough night time to do enough lunar events to turn those yellow gems and autumn nights are short. Oh yeah, and living logs, but maybe you have a Wormwood handy; otherwise good luck. 

So you need green gems and enough time which can easily extend to days, so no it's not more expensive. Harder? Maybe. More expensive? Not really. 

An experienced player could collect enough grimores to keep the long nights of winter brighter than my future 24/7. But you say "it's bad early game", yet this change would still not only make it cheaper in the long run, but also faster.

I don't think you should accuse someone so arrogantly of being inexperienced if you're not experienced yourself. Just makes you look bad.

Lovely, i like how you just plain lied about what i say, like you dont even read my post at all xD. First i never say that ruins is the most dangerous place, i was comparing ruins with grotto, but hey if in your experience grotto is harder... xD

You said that you only need moggles? thats really funny cause you know, moggles is a harder recipe than a lamp(please dont make it sounds like i saying moggles is the hardest item to craft xD) So at the end of the day your own words kill your argument, if you need to use harder recipes to explore ruins, then how the hell ruins are easier than grotto/archives x_x.

Second i never say anything about df yellow gem bein rng based, please dude just read my post... and df is not easier to dealt with than just pick up the moon gems from archives, at the end of the day, so you are telling me that its easier for you to kill df with wicker than just went to archives and pick the gems? oof, im gonna tell you something interesting. In my first run as wicker i found archives in day 2 and got the lunar gems in day 3, so according to your weak argument df can be killed solo by wicker before day 3? sure... xD

Finally i dont know how much experience you have but im starting to think that you dont read my post at all which is lame ngl, trying to argument with me using things i dont even said lol.

At the end im just using my experience as a solo pub player, thats right i have a lot of ex playing in pub worlds and they dont usually last long, so you can think of me like an expert of early game, so you should trust me when i say that using a yellow gem is harder than just oppal gem( but as i said in my post the book is lame in early game so i dont really care if klei listen to crying people about changing the recipe) c:

 

 

[ShadowDuelist]

2 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Farming Glommer / Krampus ad infinitum using full moon....? Probably even easier so since she can spawn tentacles everywhere. If the only requirement was moon rocks or something equally easily obtainable. Looks like some players want a character that can obtain every single item in the game within the first days or they won't be satisfied, lol. Lorewise it would feel very bad if Wickerbottom could meddle with the moon at a whim.

The thing is if they wanted to make the book harder to get they wouldn’t use an item that is readily available for free in the archives (and tbh reaching the archives is not hard at all for any intermediate level player or even below that. It’s usually next to a cave entrance)

Most people that say it is fine is because they play alone, and for that type of playthrough I agree that it is fine, the recipe’s problem is NOT how hard or easy to get it is, it’s because it encourages any basic level or intermediate level player to go to the archives, take the free gems and most likely leave the world with them, making everyone else’s life more difficult to go down that questline. 
 

I really don’t mind if the recipe is changed to 20 moon moths, 50 moon rocks, and one gem of each color, I actually encourage Klei for it, the only problem I see is the soft griefing for those of us who play in public or open servers about the opal gems.

 

[abrocator]

I didn’t really understand the folks who were complaining that this book doesn’t synergize with rushing CC. That the book was not even that useful. Well sure: if you are rushing CC then you don’t want to make this book. So how is it competing with rushing CC if it’s not useful to your run?

I could understand though if they were concerned that some people who were not rushing CC in the same world could take one of the gems in order to make the book. In which case they should make the case to them that the book is useless.

11 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I really don’t mind if the recipe is changed to 20 moon moths, 50 moon rocks, and one gem of each color, I actually encourage Klei for it, the only problem I see is the soft griefing for those of us who play in public or open servers about the opal gems.

With such high numbers they would have to make some kind of contraption like the construction kit for the portal in order to make duping with construction/deconstruction impossible.

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The thing is if they wanted to make the book harder to get they wouldn’t use an item that is readily available for free in the archives (and tbh reaching the archives is not hard at all for any intermediate level player or even below that. It’s usually next to a cave entrance)

I don't think the whole point was just to make it harder to get as it also fits the most thematically because it's a gem made from energy that was concentrated from the moon it makes the most sense to use energy from the moon to make a book that can draw it back or serve as a anchor to it.

17 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I really don’t mind if the recipe is changed to 20 moon moths, 50 moon rocks, and one gem of each color, I actually encourage Klei for it, the only problem I see is the soft griefing for those of us who play in public or open servers about the opal gems.

I don't work for Kiel but I'm willing to bet the thread about how the game shouldn't be balanced around the potiental for griefing is probably the biggest factor in them keeping the cost as opal.

[Dextops]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Sure why not?

Powerful and op are different things goop allows to call on rewarding encounters at will that have powerful loot which in turn makes it powerful, if nothing else glass makes glass cutters which are dark swords without sanity drain with high durability to boot vs shadow type enemies being able to stockpile them is decently powerful the book gives a variety of effects that allows multiple farms while also eliminating darkness that in turn makes it powerful.

flares are chance based and is mostly useful only in winter. Glass cutters are a darksword that also takes you to go to an island to get them while having bad durability. It's an ok weapon but is still a worse darksword. Neither of these things justify the cost imo. It's a mediocre item which isn't too bad but isn't too good either.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think the whole point was just to make it harder to get as it also fits the most thematically because it's a gem made from energy that was concentrated from the moon it makes the most sense to use energy from the moon to make a book that can draw it back or serve as a anchor to it.

I don't work for Kiel but I'm willing to bet the thread about how the game shouldn't be balanced around the potiental for griefing is probably the biggest factor in them keeping the cost as opal.

It "could" work thematically if it wasn't some free item you take from a static spot, with nearly no effort. For that purpose it's the same as getting 3 moon rocks.

I think the best route to keep the opal gem and make it entirely thematic would be to make the 2 already placed opal gems non removable, with characters saying something like "it's been there for so long its stuck now" or whatever.

This would actually encourage Wickerbottom players to actually do the lunar event on a real full moon, and have to decon the staff to craft the book, and wouldn't bother anyone else trying to advance in the game's questlines. Another thing I read that could probably go along with this, is that Wicker needs to "have it" to craft the book, but does not consume the opal gem (like Wanda's tools). This would allow to still use the opal gems to activate the device even if it was used to craft a book or two.