[Game Update] - 516384

[-Nick-]

Please make Maxwell lose 1.5x or even .5x sanity when reading books. The shadow creature being summoned along with the 2.5x sanity drain rate is a bit much. Especially when Maxwell commonly has lower sanity with his shadow puppets.

[Ornge]

6 hours ago, GuyNamedChris said:

The only change I would like to see before release is for the Lunar Grimoire to not change the lunar cycle after forcing a full moon.

I think they should keep it the way it currently works. You can actually put yourself closer to a new moon by using Lunar Grimoire. Let's say you miss the day 21 new moon. By making day 22 a full moon, day 32 will become a new moon which will come faster than day 41. Statistically speaking, half the time you use the book, it will put you closer to a new moon rather than further.

[bagherthegamer]

11 hours ago, JesseB_Klei said:

wisecracker

Whats that?  His last name? Or is it just what they call it in the code?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, GuyNamedChris said:

The only change I would like to see before release is for the Lunar Grimoire to not change the lunar cycle after forcing a full moon.

i hope no, i like to control new moons

[LiamAshvinn001]

Noice

[maxwell_winters]

5 hours ago, Nickolai said:

Please make Maxwell lose 1.5x or even .5x sanity when readong books. The shadow creature being summoned along with the 2.5x sanity drain rate is a bit much. Especially when Maxwell commonly has lower sanity with his shadow puppets.

Completely agree. I think this was made because a lot of people complained about Wicker being a "swap character" but this is an overkill. This completely annihilates a fun synergy between the two for the sake of trying to please a small group of players who can't play the same character for longer than 5 minutes. 

[oregu]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

Completely agree. I think this was made because a lot of people complained about Wicker being a "swap character" but this is an overkill. This completely annihilates a fun synergy between the two for the sake of trying to please a small group of players who can't play the same character for longer than 5 minutes. 

I don't even know why they tried knowing that bookreaders are just going to use bonehelms and sanity dishes to counter any effects

[maxwell_winters]

11 minutes ago, oregu said:

I don't even know why they tried knowing that bookreaders are just going to use bonehelms and sanity dishes to counter any effects

or just go to the Lunar

[JesseB_Klei]

3 hours ago, bagherthegamer said:

Whats that?  His last name? Or is it just what they call it in the code?

The wisecracker component listens for many game events and makes the character do a context specific quote in reference to the event and does its own internal timeout periods so the character does not spam out line after line.

[Anthony_L3hr]

16 hours ago, minespatch said:

Does this apply to the hollow Wormwood set? I always wanted to see the butterfly hands with fingered hands.

Yep!

[Bumber64]

20 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

So Klei reconsidered  this Wolfgang's mechanic for PvP but didn't consider that WX and especially Woodie have zero chances against Wicker in PvP. Wicker can mess with them from the opposite side of the map, and they won't be able to do anything about it.  

I'm pretty sure the fix involved one line of code. PvP stopped other players' followers from counteracting his sanity penalties, but didn't stop counting the players themselves. Now only Wolfgang's own followers are counted.

The issues you mentioned are a bit more involved (and aren't even limited to PvP.)

[Mert_TR]

Do we still have any hope for some gameplay changes to the character other than just the books? 

[Parusoid]

4 minutes ago, Mert_TR said:

Do we still have any hope for some gameplay changes to the character other than just the books? 

We have 17 books in total now, its like 17 abilities and they add to the gameplay a lot already, i dont know if we gonna see anything on top of that

[Dr. Safety]

On 7/23/2022 at 5:09 AM, Nickolai said:

Please make Maxwell lose 1.5x or even .5x sanity when reading books. The shadow creature being summoned along with the 2.5x sanity drain rate is a bit much. Especially when Maxwell commonly has lower sanity with his shadow puppets.

Yeah I agree. It's odd to me that a lot of people were saying the portal is a "non issue" when it comes to balancing this game, and that if we find swapping characters to be unfair, then to simply not use it. Yet when a mechanic that only effects one character is naturally buffed due to more content being added, people cried about it being busted lol.

If this is suddenly an issue now, then add more to Wickerbottom outside of her books, don't kill the interaction her and Maxwell had.

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Yeah I agree. It's odd to me that a lot of people were saying the portal is a "non issue" when it comes to balancing this game, and that if we find swapping characters to be unfair, then to simply not use it. Yet when a mechanic that only effects one character is naturally buffed due to more content being added, people cried about it being busted lol.

If this is suddenly an issue now, then add more to Wickerbottom outside of her books, don't kill the interaction her and Maxwell had.

Tbh I've seen a strong character bias with what's considered between character interactions

[Mike23Ua]

23 hours ago, Parusoid said:

We have 17 books in total now, its like 17 abilities and they add to the gameplay a lot already, i dont know if we gonna see anything on top of that

Pretty sure they mean small character “fluff” that adds to the characters unique gameplay and personality- for example: Wolfgang gaining the ability to row boats faster, yank sail masts up quicker, pull up anchors faster, % chance to instantly chop or mine a rock etc..

Wendys ability to use Abigail as a light source, interactions with new Wendy exclusive mob Pipspook etc..

Webber got TWO new mobs with his rework- Nurse spiders and immediately after that Water Gliding ones.

Wickerbottom being just about the books she crafts is boring.. like going to the school library and having to be quiet because that one librarian with the huge glasses keeps smacking the desk with a ruler you and your friends are playing and laughing at as she says Shhhh very loudly- type boring.

I was hoping they would give her more “Fluff” such as having a cute interaction with Catcoons, or not being able to sleep.. but getting exhausted and falling asleep eventually anyway, or hating spoiling foods to the point she outright refuses to eat them. just.. something other than a ton of books would be nice.

And if books are her “thing” double down on it- She should lose sanity when they get wet or damaged.. maybe even add a new Book Munching type of insect into the game.. just anything that makes her feel unique beyond a few song scrolls..

(Wigfrid Flashbacks sorry..)

Unlike Wigfrid however: who still has Craftable armor, weapons, meat only gameplay and a Vampirism health stealing trait- Take Wickers “Song Scrolls” away from her and she has NO FOUNDATION TO STAND UPON ON HER OWN.

Which as much as I hated Wigfrids rework- Wigfrid still has a Foundation outside of her scrolls, Unlike Wicker & her book collection.

[Copyafriend]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

or not being able to sleep.. but getting exhausted and falling asleep eventually anyway, or hating spoiling foods to the point she outright refuses to eat them. just.. something other than a ton of books would be nice.

Ive seen this suggested a dozen times as if its not simultaneously very weird (with no other character needing sleep) and also a rediculous disadvantage with her randomly falling asleep losing all agency for no reason and wasting time and VERY realistically taking multiple hits from a boss. Imagine fighting celestial champion and you fall asleep right as he buzzsaws you, you’re dead unless you are full health with VERY good armor, with no way to prevent it

 

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Ive seen this suggested a dozen times as if its not simultaneously very weird (with no other character needing sleep) and also a rediculous disadvantage with her randomly falling asleep losing all agency for no reason and wasting time and VERY realistically taking multiple hits from a boss. Imagine fighting celestial champion and you fall asleep right as he buzzsaws you, you’re dead unless you are full health with VERY good armor, with no way to prevent it

 

At its heart and core DST is or well rather was- a survival game, all characters should need to sleep at some point: and if they do not.. then they will suffer hallucinations and get attacked by shadow creatures- eating sanity restoring foods shouldn’t be enough..

If you don’t sleep in Minecraft monsters will attack at night. If you don’t sleep in Fortnites Survival creative modes- the storm will eat you.

Im tired of a game that’s advertised and sold to me as a survival game, completely ignoring features that are common place in other survival games.

If Klei wants to change DS/DST into another gaming Genre then that’s fine.. I guess they can do that- but do it as it’s own spinoff type game.. I see a Exhaustion Mechanic for Wickerbottom working no differently from Wanda and her aging mechanics.

ALL characters should need sleep at some point, which would make wickers inability to sleep on her own free will that much more important.

If you want to prolong your forced sleep- you can probably eat or drink something to stay awake longer.. but eventually- just like Warly eating the same food dish- it starts to lose effect.

Wickerbottom being forced to sleep would also allow her to get WintersFeast gifts in a creative Unique to playing as Wickerbottom Way- as long as the player times their exhaustion well.

Currently: Shes completely locked entirely out of WF.

[Arcwell]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wickerbottom being just about the books she crafts is boring.. like going to the school library and having to be quiet because that one librarian with the huge glasses keeps smacking the desk with a ruler you and your friends are playing and laughing at as she says Shhhh very loudly- type boring.

I for one think it's quite fun. Being the first character to have a crafting list of more than 1 item is what drew me to Wickerbottom in the first place. It might've been dulled down a bit by the addition of other character-specific crafting menus (i.e, Wigfrid, WX-78, Wormwood, etc.), but Wickerbottom's crafts are still incredibly unique, especially considering the newer ones. I think adding separate features would only serve to bring attention away from what her character has always been about.

If you think books are boring, that's fine. Wickerbottom probably just isn't the character for you.

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

At its heart and core DST is or well rather was- a survival game, all characters should need to sleep at some point: and if they do not.. then they will suffer hallucinations and get attacked by shadow creatures- eating sanity restoring foods shouldn’t be enough..

If you don’t sleep in Minecraft monsters will attack at night. If you don’t sleep in Fortnites Survival creative modes- the storm will eat you.

Im tired of a game that’s advertised and sold to me as a survival game, completely ignoring features that are common place in other survival games.

If Klei wants to change DS/DST into another gaming Genre then that’s fine.. I guess they can do that- but do it as it’s own spinoff type game.. I see a Exhaustion Mechanic for Wickerbottom working no differently from Wanda and her aging mechanics.

ALL characters should need sleep at some point, which would make wickers inability to sleep on her own free will that much more important.

If you want to prolong your forced sleep- you can probably eat or drink something to stay awake longer.. but eventually- just like Warly eating the same food dish- it starts to lose effect.

Wickerbottom being forced to sleep would also allow her to get WintersFeast gifts in a creative Unique to playing as Wickerbottom Way- as long as the player times their exhaustion well.

Currently: Shes completely locked entirely out of WF.

But… no?

very few survival crafting games actually require sleep. And the reason is simple: its an additional need with no interesting implications. Its just “go back to your established safe zone and lose a couple hours” minecraft doesnt punish you for not sleeping, a unique mob that drops tbe only loot capable of repairing the best gear spawns, not something to force you to sleep, its a suggestion at best, and i disagree with it.

choosing to not require sleeping is a stylistic choice. It has nothing to do with the games status as a survival game, and its quite odd for you to sat that needing sleep is a staple of survival games when honestly i can only remember like two actual serious survival games that require sleeping.

also… really? To support your claims of sleeping being a staple of survival games you choose… minecraft and fortnite, one of which is the most sandbox game to ever sandbox which does NOT actually have any punishments for not sleeping, and the other is a wildly popular battle royale game that happens to have a survival mode so unpopular that i have never even heard of it. despite my girlfriend, her dad, and her dads best friend all playing fortnight. 

as for actual examples (though you didnt ask): CDDA and zomboid. Only one of which pops up on steam.

which i just checked and the top 20 survival games that i knew, none of which actually required sleeping, unless “dinkum” does but i kind of doubt it.

Sorry to rip into you so hard over this but i hate when people try to compare two not very comparable games and complain over what is very clearly an artistic design choice

[Evelo]

46 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Ive seen this suggested a dozen times as if its not simultaneously very weird (with no other character needing sleep) and also a rediculous disadvantage with her randomly falling asleep losing all agency for no reason and wasting time and VERY realistically taking multiple hits from a boss. Imagine fighting celestial champion and you fall asleep right as he buzzsaws you, you’re dead unless you are full health with VERY good armor, with no way to prevent it

 

Just a personal preference. I love when characters have rediculous disadvantages. (Wormwood) it drastically changes the way you play the game. More characters should have these downsides that drastically affect how you play. It creates diversity in gameplay instead of Wilson + some extra stuff.

I understand the dislike of it though. If Klei doesn't add it, they don't add it. Is what it is. I still got my Wormwood buddy! <3

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Just a personal preference. I love when characters have rediculous disadvantages. (Wormwood) it drastically changes the way you play the game. More characters should have these downsides that drastically affect how you play. It creates diversity in gameplay instead of Wilson + some extra stuff.

I understand the dislike of it though. If Klei doesn't add it, they don't add it. Is what it is. I still got my Wormwood buddy! <3

I do as well, however i think my main issue with the idea of wickerbottom falling asleep is that there isn’t a way to counter or prevent it as proposed. Id love if a character was added that needed sleep as a downside, (sleeping rolls actually useful?!?!) wormwood is one of my favorites as a result of his downside interestingly interacting with his perk of creating living logs, making his health both expensive and a far more valuable commodity compared to the average characters. Its interesting and difficult and unique 10/10 absolutely my favorite downside upside pair klei has ever done. 

but falling asleep with no way to counter it isnt interesting, it wojld just be frustrating and annoying “okay time to fight drago- nevermind guess i’ll wait 30 seconds instead. Or you’re fighting deerclops as a new player, you’re low on health and armor but hes gotta be close to dead.. just a few more hi- and i passed out, and now im dead because there’s a wake up animation agter being hit the first time

its like wickerbottom and wickerbottom alone would need to take a break to TELL YOU about OUR NEW SPONSOR!! Raaiiid shadowle- 

ya get my point its an unnecessary interruption that wouldnt make it interesting

also as a absolutely shameless ad for someone elses game: rainworld, its technically a survival game with sleep mechanics, except its more make it to the safe area where you sleep or the rain will crush your bones or drown you depending on where you’re at

[maxwell_winters]

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Im tired of a game that’s advertised and sold to me as a survival game, completely ignoring features that are common place in other survival games.

Forest, Raft and Valheim that are also advertised as survival games don't have a sleep meter. Sleeping in those games just skip through the night and maybe heals a bit. I only saw sleep meter in The Long Dark but this game wants to make survival realistic which definitely isn't something DST tries to achieve. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Just a personal preference. I love when characters have rediculous disadvantages. (Wormwood) it drastically changes the way you play the game. More characters should have these downsides that drastically affect how you play. It creates diversity in gameplay instead of Wilson + some extra stuff.

I understand the dislike of it though. If Klei doesn't add it, they don't add it. Is what it is. I still got my Wormwood buddy! <3

downsides are more game changing that upsides but we all know what sells more... we need game changing downsides with useful perks... not downsides that can be ignored and underwhelming perks or worst, just strong perks and any noticeable con...

[Arcwell]

Opinion: "You don't get to play the game for (insert time interval)" sounds like the single most unfun downside any character could possibly have.