Ohan Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Maxwell being able to read Wickerbottom’s books has always been a fun quirky side perk. But i feel like a line needs to be drawn now. Wickerbottom has gotten a bunch of fun and powerful new books and a bookcase that refreshes their durability. It feels kind of lame now that maxwell can just use all of that as well in addition to his shadow puppets. And this is even before maxwell’s own refresh, god knows what kind of new powers he’ll get on top of all of wickerbottom’s new books. Perhaps Maxwell should be limited to only the old books like before and none of the new ones. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_Mentos Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 What about no. We're not taking away poor old man's last few braincells that allow him to remember and read via lobotomy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flarezen Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Nah Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 There should probably be a drawback, like requiring more sanity or having a lesser effect of the original effect. I feel like just because he can use the codex umbra doesn't mean the other books work exactly the same. Wicker should have more experience than him and/or knowledge on how they work. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_Mentos Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said: There should probably be a drawback, like requiring more sanity or having a lesser effect of the original effect. I feel like just because he can use the codex umbra doesn't mean the other books work exactly the same. Wicker should have more experience than him and/or knowledge on how they work. They're both bookworms... just that one publishes them and reads and the other reads and forgets everything right afterwards. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said: They're both bookworms... just that one publishes them and reads and the other reads and forgets everything right afterwards. Maybe I missed something but has there been any lore about Maxwell being a bookworm? I believe he just happened upon the codex and is a failed magician. For all we know he could be a middle school drop out. I've always interpreted to him being able to read wickers books because he is experienced with magic and not actual reading. Otherwise Wilson would be able to use them too. However, what I'm proposing is that the magic in Wickers books could and should be different enough for Maxwell to be unable to use their full benefit. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty_Mentos Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 minute ago, HowlVoid said: -snip- I can only assume that Maxwell had a lot of time invested into researching to decyphering Codex's words along with other ancient thulean texts or something. Considering that knowledge is power meaning Maxwell can use Wicker's knowledge turning into his own power. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 12 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said: They're both bookworms... just that one publishes them and reads and the other reads and forgets everything right afterwards. I don’t think Maxwell is a book worm, I think judging from the cinematic's and animations Klei puts out that he is literally obsessed with the Codex Umbra.. for reference see here: skip to 2:05 he slams the book shut and cradles it closely like guarding a child from a hostile animal.. Being able to read all of Wickers books just undermines Wicker as a character.. It would be like if suddenly everyone could use Warlys cookware or Anyone can summon Abigail from Abby’s Flower- it respectfully needs to change.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said: I can only assume that Maxwell had a lot of time invested into researching to decyphering Codex's words along with other ancient thulean texts or something. Considering that knowledge is power meaning Maxwell can use Wicker's knowledge turning into his own power. Be that as it may, just because you spend your whole life learning Latin doesn't mean you also know how to read Russian. I also don't think Maxwell deciphering the codex suddenly means he somehow has Wickers memories. I think as it is now it isn't too bad, but when Maxwell gets his refresh Klei should draw a line as Ohan says. Nerfing the books slightly to him won't detract anything from him. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BezKa Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Considering Maxwell's up for a rework, it's better to just not do anything with him right now. He'll get his buffs and nerfs eventually, it's better to leave him alone instead of adding stuff that might get removed later on. What we actually need, is more incentive to stay as Wickerbottom instead of swapping to Maxwell after making the books. I don't have any ideas personally, though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 This is and has been one of my favorite interactions in game between two characters. I hope it stays Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, BezKa said: Considering Maxwell's up for a rework, it's better to just not do anything with him right now. He'll get his buffs and nerfs eventually, it's better to leave him alone instead of adding stuff that might get removed later on. Dont u think not giving him acces to 11 new powerful books is the way to ‘not do anything with him’ though? and the way to ‘leave him alone’, to prevent giving him stuff that will potentially need to be removed once he gets his refresh and the new powers that will undoubtably come with it? limiting him to only the old books would constitute leaving him alone instead of injecting a ton of power from a different survivor into him before hes even gotten his refresh. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanTheMime Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I think the idea is that Maxwell has a certain understanding of the Constant that other survivors lack, and they wanted to hammer that trait down by showing that he can do anything Wickerbottom can. That being said, I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable way to explain why Wickerbottom can use her books and Maxwell can't, or at least why she would have greater efficacy with them. I mean, he already can't mirror the other survivors' powers, so what makes her magic spells any different? I think that, for now, Maxwell should be restricted to her old books, because it does feel a little ridiculous post-rework. They can explore the concept further (or remove it altogether) in his rework, which is almost definitely next up anyways. Maybe Wickerbottom could take a crack at the Codex Umbra? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 40 minutes ago, Ohan said: Dont u think not giving him acces to 11 new powerful books is the way to ‘not do anything with him’ though? and the way to ‘leave him alone’, to prevent giving him stuff that will potentially need to be removed once he gets his refresh and the new powers that will undoubtably come with it? limiting him to only the old books would constitute leaving him alone instead of injecting a ton of power from a different survivor into him before hes even gotten his refresh. You're right. Something should probably be done now or this is a Wicker + Maxwell rework and not just Wicker. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantispidae Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I do think it should be looked at now, because if it stays and gets changed whenever we finally get around to Maxwell himself its going to sting a lot more for people who like it. Especially since a Maxwell rework addressing this particularly gimmick is basically guaranteed to be a nerf while his other stuff is buffed. Personally, I'm for not taking away the mechanic completely but making it less effective to use Maxwell for it. Either costing extra durability (making Maxwell less effiecent at using them but not completely locking him out), not allowing other characters to access the bookcase (in the same way that other characters cannot access Warly's equipment, thus preventing Maxwell from recharging books and putting a hard cap on his uses of them) or some other way of making Wickerbottom the decidedly stronger of the two when it comes to her books. Its a really nice flavor thing that he can and implies a mutual understanding of some form of magical manipulation between the two of them, but if books are going to be Wickerbottom's thing than Maxwell should not, from a gameplay perspective, get all that and more. Maxwell is going to be reworked, hopefully in a really good way! But if this is going to be a problem in the future its better to nip it in the bud now since it's not technically "his" perk anyway, and adjusting it now means it won't be missed and argued about when he gets his own fix up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhh2 Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 OP, It may have been better to make this a poll. I defniatly do not share the same opinion. The game is full of character combos (e.g. wortox + wormwood, warly foods + any characters, etc.). If the player really wants to switch to wicker, craft books and a bookshelf, and switch to maxwell to not have the sanity penailty, let them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Vol Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I think the people who are complaining about Maxwell being able to read wickerbottom's books is that because they don't play Maxwell and want Wickerbottom to have the spotlight. I enjoy Maxwell but the thing is he has no end goal. After the first year Maxwell is really not needed, you can gather trees with bearger and his duelist really do nothing good. One of the best items in the game (Enlightened Crown) makes it so Maxwell wont want to use his abilities. Maxwell being able to read the new books gives him a use after the first year. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said: I think the people who are complaining about Maxwell being able to read wickerbottom's books is that because they don't play Maxwell and want Wickerbottom to have the spotlight. I enjoy Maxwell but the thing is he has no end goal. After the first year Maxwell is really not needed, you can gather trees with bearger and his duelist really do nothing good. One of the best items in the game (Enlightened Crown) makes it so Maxwell wont want to use his abilities. Maxwell being able to read the new books gives him a use after the first year. Not really.. it just makes him do everything Wicker can do + more. It would be like if Klei made it so anyone can summon and use Abigail’s flower.. what’s the use in being Wendy anymore? Why Maxwell still has this Synergy just feels so busted.. and I’d rather they gave him his own gimmicks in his rework instead of riding off the coattails of other characters. Although I would not say no to being able to shadow boost Wolfgang’s strength as seen in Wolfgang’s animated short. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I agree. Maxwell should be unable to read Wickerbottom's books, and he should be unable to use Winona's catapults (they should break instantly at the sight of him), and he should be unable to eat Warly's food (simply sew his mouth shut so he dies), and he should be unable to get sanity from the sisturn, and he should automatically break anything else that anyone other than him made like spider dens and merm huts. I absolutely hate that I am forced to use the celestial portal every 5 minutes but clearly the issue is every single part of the game except the celestial portal, and not my outlook. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copyafriend Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: It would be like if Klei made it so anyone can summon and use Abigail’s flower.. what’s the use in being Wendy anymore? I disagree with this comparison on the grounds that maxwell has his own set of disadvantages that are arguably worse than wickerbottoms. Its only one character who can use the books, not the whole cast. I think thematically it makes perfect sense for maxwell to be able to use her magic to a certain extent. i am not against making some books just not work for him (the light books and the moon books would make sense?) but maxwell is an experienced magic user and its odd to remov this interaction completely. Personally i wouldnt switch to maxwell to use wickerbottoms books, even if i had a couple of bookcases full of them. Maxwells sacrificing sanity for workers playstyle isn’t exactly a perfect fit for wickerbottoms books, the only advantage is the sanity regen, which is a fairly minor one when forget me lots literally exist. i vote we leave it be entirely, but im not totally against removing functionality with a few books. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/141702-make-maxwell-illiterate/#findComment-1584819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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