Pirate Raids Are Way Overtuned

[Copyafriend]

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if having a weapon and armor on you shouldnt be expected in a game that even throw you enemy waves isnt suggesting to change the game cathegory idk what it is. Im not saying that thing about animal crossing because of skill or experience or whatever but for denying a real important part of the game. The sea has enemies and you need armor and weapon, period

is like saying that super mario shouldnt expect from you to press A when there is a cliff, that would make it a walk simulator but im not atacking walking simulator neither the difficulties behind jumping but the non sense of someone suggesting to change the game because they wanna play other kind of games

take it as you want but what you said arent my words

pd. i think animal crossing is fun but isnt dst like dst isnt super mario and super mario isnt FF. Clear?

see? is okey if this person dont like certain game mechanics but the game has them like super mario has jumping mechanics

is like if i go to a super mario forum and start talking how i hate needing to jump

Bro this isnt it. Marble armor and a spear is good enough to beat deerclops, considering that the water is now day 1 content, im thinking it should probably be tuned down. Beating the monkeys isnt the hardest thing in the world with proper gear, but its a little odd to require proper gear for stuff thats day 1 content the second you grab 20 reaources. Considering how easy it is to get to the monkeys, we need to keep in mind that this is day 1 content for even the most inexperienced players. Its right ourside spawn if they make a boat and row in the right direction. And they will have no idea why the ocean has 5 pirates that killed them nearly instantly. I mean why is day 1 seek you out content not beatable with a single log suit and a spear? I can beat like 3 or maybe even 4 clockworks 1 at a time with that gear and facetanking. If its not a boss that should be good enough. We shouldn’t expect boss killing gear for day 1 content. Especially since it purposefully seeks you out and steals all of your **** and kills you. Thats not frustrating at all. You’re not asking why you gotta jump in mario, you’re asking why they added one of the final levels into the first world randomly replacing one of the easier maps, potentially stopping all your progress and forcing you to restart by taking your lives. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

Bro this isnt it. Marble armor and a spear is good enough to beat deerclops, considering that the water is now day 1 content, im thinking it should probably be tuned down. Beating the monkeys isnt the hardest thing in the world with proper gear, but its a little odd to require proper gear for stuff thats day 1 content the second you grab 20 reaources. Considering how easy it is to get to the monkeys, we need to keep in mind that this is day 1 content for even the most inexperienced players. Its right ourside spawn if they make a boat and row in the right direction. And they will have no idea why the ocean has 5 pirates that killed them nearly instantly. I mean why is day 1 seek you out content not beatable with a single log suit and a spear? I can beat like 3 or maybe even 4 clockworks 1 at a time with that gear and facetanking. If its not a boss that should be good enough. We shouldn’t expect boss killing gear for day 1 content. Especially since it purposefully seeks you out and steals all of your **** and kills you. Thats not frustrating at all. You’re not asking why you gotta jump in mario, you’re asking why they added one of the final levels into the first world randomly replacing one of the easier maps, potentially stopping all your progress and forcing you to restart by taking your lives. 

another one who doesnt read the part where i said it should scale over time...

[sudoku]

Finally klei releases some survival content that actually challenges the player and it comes as no surprise people want it nerfed, like the beta has been out for a week, most people havent played the content yet. Can we give it some time before we nerf everything? 

 

[LitulLola]

11 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

idk if i didnt make it clear or you dont want to understand. Im saying that they should scale over time like hounds!!!!

I don't think going by day count is a great solution. I would love for it to work based on player numbers. I let my friends log on to my worlds (so they have access to better stuff while they learn the game) and if they want to see the new content, they'll get destroyed on my 2000+ world's. I hardly ever play with ppl, I'll get a world built up and then I hand it over to friends. So I'm A little worried if it goes by anything other than player count. 

I could also see a potential to make it to where if your flying their pirate flag (maybe make it attach to the sail) they will be less likely to attack you or stop them from attacking at all. I would hope the flag could be raised and lowered so you have a bit more control (like when ur fighting CK)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, LitulLola said:

I don't think going by day count is a great solution. I would love for it to work based on player numbers. I let my friends log on to my worlds (so they have access to better stuff while they learn the game) and if they want to see the new content, they'll get destroyed on my 2000+ world's. I hardly ever play with ppl, I'll get a world built up and then I hand it over to friends. So I'm A little worried if it goes by anything other than player count. 

I could also see a potential to make it to where if your flying their pirate flag (maybe make it attach to the sail) they will be less likely to attack you or stop them from attacking at all. I would hope the flag could be raised and lowered so you have a bit more control (like when ur fighting CK)

it can mix being based on players and on days like hound waves. What i dont want is a nerf on the current ammount of monkeys at any stage of the game, let them be this hard atleast in late game. Isnt like they are super hard

and if you wanna teach your friends you can always create a world from the beguinning and play with them so you teach them how to progress

[LitulLola]

9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

and if you wanna teach your friends you can always create a world from the beguinning and play with them so you teach them how to progress

Yeah we just have completely opposite schedules. I'm awake during late night early morning and sleep during the day so it's hard to coordinate. Like right now is 3am where I live.

I also thought hound waves were purely dependent on in-game days. So each person would get 10 hounds late game (or varglette)

[SonicDen220]

After trying out some raids in a creative world, I can say the raids are not the worst thing ever, but still a bit much. They're not hard to defeat if you're in a perfect scenario where you are prepared (about 17 electric darts are enough to kill a raid and you only lose about 8 hp with thulecite armor). Unfortunately, you can't kill them with darts from a distance - the range is too short, their rowing is too fast and they will always jump on your boat. But still, just the fact that you have to tank them at all just rubs me the wrong way. All because kiting a group of mobs on a boat is literally not possible (and you can't convince me that it is, don't even try). Pan flute is an option, yes, I acknowledge that, but it's honestly a wildcard for just about any situation.

BUT THIS? WHY AND HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? One raid is bad enough to deal with, but TWO AT THE SAME TIME? This is stupid and completely unfair. I can't name any other situation in the entire game that screws you over this much (maybe double terrorclaw or double rockjaw). You can't even run away from that.

Also, question: Do you have to hit their boat with a cannon to scare them away? Or do you just have to shoot it and they're gonna go away even if you miss completely (or even if you shoot in the opposite direction)? Obviously this doesn't help you kill them, but still, I'm interested.

[Hornete]

15 minutes ago, SonicDen220 said:

Do you have to hit their boat with a cannon to scare them away?

You must hit their boat with the cannon to scare them away.

I wonder if you could have given them a banana to make them satisfied, and then jump on their boat as they try to sail away. Iirc when i've accidentally done that, only the Prime Mate ever aggroed on me while the other monkies were too busy rowing, though I might be mistaken.

[HeatAndRun]

The problem is, that whether your character is strong towards solo monkey raid or not after dealing with several monkeys you'll eventually turn into Wonkey who doesn't have any remarkable ability to deal numbers of monkey at the same time. And, the monkeys will still wreck and steal the stuffs on your boat, no matter hat. The hats as reward are really interesting, especially the Polly Roger hat, but it's way too punishing if you don't have enough thulecite crown or bramble husks. They even steal your spare helmets and use those against you! Some tuning definitely required, it seems.

And.. About the cannon.. For now a single boat is obviously crowed for everything, and the magnet things don't perfectly sinc and connect every boats in long sailing, so it does not solve the problem from the bottom.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, SonicDen220 said:

After trying out some raids in a creative world, I can say the raids are not the worst thing ever, but still a bit much. They're not hard to defeat if you're in a perfect scenario where you are prepared (about 17 electric darts are enough to kill a raid and you only lose about 8 hp with thulecite armor). Unfortunately, you can't kill them with darts from a distance - the range is too short, their rowing is too fast and they will always jump on your boat. But still, just the fact that you have to tank them at all just rubs me the wrong way. All because kiting a group of mobs on a boat is literally not possible (and you can't convince me that it is, don't even try). Pan flute is an option, yes, I acknowledge that, but it's honestly a wildcard for just about any situation.

I took them down with a log suit, spear, and 1 merm I still think this is being entirely overblown.

7 hours ago, LitulLola said:

I don't think going by day count is a great solution. I would love for it to work based on player numbers.

I feel like what people are expecting is 1 per player but at that point we may as well have the ships spawn empty with the pirates already defeated. Facing a crew of 1-2 pirates would not only kill the mechanic for me but they wouldn't really feel like a pirate crew anymore.

[QuartzBeam]

1 hour ago, SonicDen220 said:

double rockjaw

At least Rockjaws deal damage to each other, so a double Rockjaw attack can devolve into free Fish Meat delivery with a bit of luck.

[LitulLola]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

feel like what people are expecting is 1 per player but at that point we may as well have the ships spawn empty with the pirates already defeated. Facing a crew of 1-2 pirates would not only kill the mechanic for me but they wouldn't really feel like a pirate crew anymore.

I do agree that I don't want them nerfed into the ground but I think they should be tuned down a bit depending on how many players there are. I posted my full idea that would allow for both in another thread. It would allow you to have more control over the raids while leaving them tough for ppl that don't want them changed

[xhyom]

22 hours ago, sudoku said:

Finally klei releases some survival content that actually challenges the player and it comes as no surprise people want it nerfed, like the beta has been out for a week, most people havent played the content yet. Can we give it some time before we nerf everything? 

 

Sorry but I think your speech is a little superficial, it sounds more like you want to criticize people for giving their opinions than to have an opinion in fact, it's like you're saying that everyone who gave their opinion is a crybaby who wants everything easy and you , who is a good player, doesn't care about the difficulty.
The beta is there to be tested and tuned according to the tests of those who propose to judge the content before it is oficially launched, of course people will give their opinion, especially the negative ones, there are several threads explaining their experience with pirate attacks and why they deserve an extra attention. Just saying hey how about not having an opinion because it's too early for that doesn't help at all.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

18 hours ago, SonicDen220 said:

 

that is hilarious. I get that situation few times and with all the chaos and how the monkeys row i couldn't stop laughing

i like these situation, spice up things since reviving is so damn cheap and easy. Isnt DS were you could only revive with meat effigies that gave you health penalty while active or being nostradamus and equip the LGA before diying

[sudoku]

10 hours ago, xhyom said:

Sorry but I think your speech is a little superficial, it sounds more like you want to criticize people for giving their opinions than to have an opinion in fact, it's like you're saying that everyone who gave their opinion is a crybaby who wants everything easy and you , who is a good player, doesn't care about the difficulty.
The beta is there to be tested and tuned according to the tests of those who propose to judge the content before it is oficially launched, of course people will give their opinion, especially the negative ones, there are several threads explaining their experience with pirate attacks and why they deserve an extra attention. Just saying hey how about not having an opinion because it's too early for that doesn't help at all.

Thats a whole lot of you projecting onto someone who you have never interacted with before.

My plea is simple, i am not able to test out the beta until it hits live, and i, as well as countless others im sure would like to test kleis original intent without it being drastically changed a week into testing.

When Wolfgang rework was released, klei came right out and said give the rework some time to be tested and played, players still left feedback and in the following months he was adjusted due to player feedback. Thats all i am asking, if the raids need to be adjusted im not against it,  but a single week and with a fraction of the playerbase is not enough of a proper testing phase for such drastic nerfs that are propesed here such as making the raids contain a single monkey.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, sudoku said:

When Wolfgang rework was released

Many players we're able to predict the problems that came with his initial rework just by the changelog and when the beta came it was just more evident. There is a beta and plenty video evidence of how the pirates function I'm pretty sure with enough experience with the game and a little bit of imagination you can already guess how facetanking 5 enemies feels like without playing the beta.

Spoiler

Of course actually playing is way better for experiencing and reviewing but I'm just saying it's not too hard to foresee some issues.

 

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Many players we're able to predict the problems that came with his initial rework just by the changelog and when the beta came it was just more evident. There is a beta and plenty video evidence of how the pirates function I'm pretty sure with enough experience with the game and a little bit of imagination you can already guess how facetanking 5 enemies feels like without playing the beta.

  Hide contents

Of course actually playing is way better for experiencing and reviewing but I'm just saying it's not too hard to foresee some issues.

 

If someone chooses to face tank the primate alongside the other monkeys that's really just them being a bad player not the game being hard the captain stays on his ship. My big issue with this is it feels like this content is being misrepresented by people who cry nerf with the best example being the video on the first page of this very thread. I've been testing raids as often as I can since I don't know how to console command spawn them (I tried the command shown in the vid but didn't work some reason) but no matter how I sliced it the fight felt reasonable the most minimal gear I've beaten them with so far was with a spear and log suit while player Walter with no healing items and ideally most players should be more prepared than that.

I do agreed a cooldown is needed tho in the case of back to back spawns and when that becomes the case I just hope it isn't a super long one.

Personally I'd go with a 5 day cooldown if you win and a restriction that only 1 crew can be active at a time.

Edit: Winning counting as either killing the pirates or causing them to flee in the case above such as hitting their ship with a cannon ball or killing all the powder monkeys causing the captain to flee..

[ArubaroBeefalo]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

a restriction that only 1 crew can be active at a time.

2 raids at the same time is hilarious :_

[goblinball]

5 hours ago, sudoku said:

i am not able to test out the beta until it hits live, and i, as well as countless others im sure would like to test kleis original intent without it being drastically changed a week into testing.

You do realize the whole point of betas is receiving feedback so klei can make these “drastic” changes, right? I do agree that reducing the raids to just 1 monkey is a bit much, however I don’t see why a week isn’t enough time for feedback such as this. It doesn’t take a week to experience everything the update has to offer.

Besides, who are these “countless others” you speak of? 

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

2 raids at the same time is hilarious :_

It doesn’t make any sense though..? Unless the pirates are all from the same crew, they would obviously all be fighting each other for the loot.

Thats what pirates do.. they loot and they plunder and then they stab their crew mates in the back with a sword to take all the gold for themselves.

If Klei wants to balance pirate content, they should balance it properly..

If Pigmen can gleefully say “You friend, love friend” right before you smack them with a spear and them cry out “Traitor!” “Stay Away” I am pretty sure it shouldn’t be too hard to watch a pirate crew loot your stuff and then turn on each other.

As someone who literally had birthday parties on board actual pirate ship replicas- I’m in love with the idea of pirates, pirate weapons, pirate hats- and over all else.. Pirates that are loyal until they get Greedy.

If Klei wants to Balance pirate raids.. I don’t want it tuned down to one monkey per ship, I want them to do what actual pirates do.. then whomever is left over, the player can deal with.

Would this be too much game programming work for a monthly update? Maybe… but I haven’t been looking at ANY of the updates Klei has put out as small monthly updates.. instead I’ve looked at everything that’s been added to the game since 2019 and have seen all of that as DST becoming a full fledged sequel to DS..

Usually sequels have lots of cool features, fun little animations for no other purpose but to make the game feel more advanced, such as how animals in borderlands 2 limped when injured compared to Borderlands 1 where they did not.

You get the idea.. if Klei wants to Balance pirate raids- don’t do it with boring damage numbers or nerfs, do it with some cool on screen crew betrayal! <3

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

It doesn’t make any sense though..? Unless the pirates are all from the same crew, they would obviously all be fighting each other for the loot.

they are from the same island, are under the rule of the same queen ruler, etc

[Capybara007]

49 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If someone chooses to face tank the primate alongside the other monkeys that's really just them being a bad player

This makes me wonder if you tested the raids or not

its impossible to do a pirate raid without tanking, do it as wilson, dont use some ridiculous setup, just you, a hambat, a boat, and as many helmets as you need

I feel offended by that statement since it pretty much states that kiting the raids is possible and i am just skill issue

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

This makes me wonder if you tested the raids or not

its impossible to do a pirate raid without tanking, do it as wilson, dont use some ridiculous setup, just you, a hambat, a boat, and as many helmets as you need

I feel offended by that statement since it pretty much states that kiting the raids is possible and i am just skill issue

one thing is tanking the monkeys and other is the show shown in the previous video where you could see someone complaining about how difficult are the raids while tanking the prime monkey plus the monkeys instead of just the monkeys

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

This makes me wonder if you tested the raids or not

its impossible to do a pirate raid without tanking, do it as wilson, dont use some ridiculous setup, just you, a hambat, a boat, and as many helmets as you need

I feel offended by that statement since it pretty much states that kiting the raids is possible and i am just skill issue

Re-read what you quoted I didn't say anything about you not needing to tank at all I said you don't need to tank all the powder monkeys and their primate boss as in you do not need to stand at the edge of your boat where your in attack range of the captain while fighting off the crew or are you saying that's the case that while your fighting them you need to huddle your body up against their ship?

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Re-read what you quoted I didn't say anything about you not needing to tank at all I said you don't need to tank all the powder monkeys and their primate boss as in you do not need to stand at the edge of your boat where your in attack range of the captain while fighting off the crew or are you saying that's the case that while your fighting them you need to huddle your body up against their ship?

**** you right my bad

still tanking the powder monkeys still feels lame