Lazy Deserter Rework Ideas.

[00petar00]

10 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

???

No. You can simply create a world and roll with it and play it for > 800 days. I have at least three such purely random worlds. Stop lying, please. If you want to reroll and pray for certain RNG until your whims are satisfied you are free to do so but don't pretend it is the downfall of DST. The game is just as fun and functional when exploring / playing a new world regardless of how many walrus camps it has or some other arbitrary criteria.

Just because you are willing to put up with subpar worlds for thousands of days, doesn't mean that everyone else is. It is much better to even regenerate 10 times in hope of finding a world that is good for example instead of playing 2000 days or longer on a world that would make me spend much longer time walking between areas i need to walk to.

It isn't a downfall of DST, when was i ever so dramatic about it? I am just saying that i am playing Wanda so much that i don't even want to play other characters on my long term worlds because i don't have to care about generation RNG when i am able to teleport on any location at any second and even with good RNG this is too much to pass out on in the late game.

There's literally no reason not to make Lazy Deserter work similarly but with limitations, like you can only link them with gems, so it would only be possible to build as many as there are gems, they shouldn't work across shards. So Wanda's watches will still be much superior but this would make other characters much better in late game.

[reallychina]

On 5/7/2022 at 4:20 PM, yourAnty said:

So I've seen more and more people over-time suggest a 'Lazy Deserter rework', especially after Wanda was released, this post is both for my idea to which I'll get to soon but also as a hub for klei to pick ideas from to make this forgotten structure used. My idea makes sure that Wanda's backtrek watches would still be a lot better in the long run, but also so people who don't like to play as her and/or play solo can have something similar.

So, here's my idea: Lazy Deserters no longer need more than 1 player to function, making them useful in solo play and not wasting other's time in multiplayer. IF there are more than 2 Lazy Deserters in the world (across shards counts) then the structure would teleport the player to the nearest one of the same gem/ or default if no gem is inserted. And last, Lazy Deserters would have the ability to have a gem socketed into them for easier linking, both across locations and across shards, all gemmed and not gemmed LD's would work the same, but couldn't work with other coloured gems/ a gemmed one with a non gemmed one, they just wouldn't work unless there's a LD of the same gem kind/ungemmed.

Feel free to correct every single grammatical issue.

This is by far the best and most elegant solution to deserter teleporting that i have read.

 

Its so good because it severely limits not only how many you can have but also which ones you will be using more often.

 

Since the orange one is bound to classic deserter and you wont really be using green gems for common routes, you are left with 4 effective routes (r,b,p,y). Which means 2 common ones (r,b), one fairly common (p) and one that is more expensive, y

 

This is enough for a moon island tp, a ruins tp, a fw tp and some other one of your choice.

This also doesnt undermine wandas flexible and infinite porting perks.

 

[Captain_Rage]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Just because you are willing to put up with subpar worlds for thousands of days, doesn't mean that everyone else is. It is much better to even regenerate 10 times in hope of finding a world that is good for example instead of playing 2000 days or longer on a world that would make me spend much longer time walking between areas i need to walk to.

It isn't a downfall of DST, when was i ever so dramatic about it? I am just saying that i am playing Wanda so much that i don't even want to play other characters on my long term worlds because i don't have to care about generation RNG when i am able to teleport on any location at any second and even with good RNG this is too much to pass out on in the late game.

There's literally no reason not to make Lazy Deserter work similarly but with limitations, like you can only link them with gems, so it would only be possible to build as many as there are gems, they shouldn't work across shards. So Wanda's watches will still be much superior but this would make other characters much better in late game.

You are saying that a player who enjoys the normal game by simply playing it is wasting time while one who is obsessed with rerolling a world to meet arbitrary criteria and gets annoyed by that fact is having more fun and is more entitled. Nice?

Varied worlds is one of the things that makes DST interesting. While players can definitely be subpar while the world generation is not.

And the Lazy Deserter is fine as it is.

[Antynomity]

2 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

You are saying that a player who enjoys the normal game by simply playing it is wasting time while one who is obsessed with rerolling a world to meet arbitrary criteria and gets annoyed by that fact is having more fun and is more entitled. Nice?

Varied worlds is one of the things that makes DST interesting. While players can definitely be subpar while the world generation is not.

And the Lazy Deserter is fine as it is.

So you want to gatekeep a structure from a chunk of the playerbase because you think it's fine? I mean sure, it's your opinion, but I don't think people would be unhappy with any change to the Lazy Deserter to be useful in solo play (aside from the usual forums crybabies that cry about every single change no matter what it is.) Heck, you could even keep the current functionalities of it with the default state (orange gems). Everyone would be happy.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, yourAnty said:

So you want to gatekeep a structure from a chunk of the playerbase because you think it's fine? I mean sure, it's your opinion, but I don't think people would be unhappy with any change to the Lazy Deserter to be useful in solo play (aside from the usual forums crybabies that cry about every single change no matter what it is.) Heck, you could even keep the current functionalities of it with the default state (orange gems). Everyone would be happy.

your idea is cool really but personally, if they decided to adapt it to solo instead of adding more desert stone recipes, i would prefer if it works like telelocator focus so there is the need of thinking placements to make better "jumping" but instead of using telelocator focus (which i find good to waste 3 gems... they stock pile..) we just use the stones. In that way solo player can use both teleportation items to make a good enough network while the item will still have more impact in multiplayer. And is simplier to understand from players that dont read every patch note and wiki

also i guess it will be easier to change code and art wise

[reallychina]

5 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

You are saying that a player who enjoys the normal game by simply playing it is wasting time while one who is obsessed with rerolling a world to meet arbitrary criteria and gets annoyed by that fact is having more fun and is more entitled. Nice?

Varied worlds is one of the things that makes DST interesting. While players can definitely be subpar while the world generation is not.

And the Lazy Deserter is fine as it is.

If you play long term, bad map generation with useless wormholes and big distances between points of interest literally makes you waste time for no reason whatsoever.

 

It's not a question of "is this a waste of time" because the answer is invariably "yes", but rather "do you enjoy wasting time". If you do enjoy wasting time, that's your prerogative, but i don't see why having a basic porting system would inconvenience you. You could simply not use it and do your 123rd, 3 minute trip to ruins on foot or on a beefalo

[Antynomity]

On 5/9/2022 at 6:03 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

your idea is cool really but personally, if they decided to adapt it to solo instead of adding more desert stone recipes, i would prefer if it works like telelocator focus so there is the need of thinking placements to make better "jumping" but instead of using telelocator focus (which i find good to waste 3 gems... they stock pile..) we just use the stones. In that way solo player can use both teleportation items to make a good enough network while the item will still have more impact in multiplayer. And is simplier to understand from players that dont read every patch note and wiki

also i guess it will be easier to change code and art wise

I like your idea, it plays with mine, and I did change my mind about going between shards, it would take something more unique from wanda's watches, and make you think more (plus a lot less bugs since it either teleports to the closest one or the one in the other shard)

Oh yea plus desert stones would finally be useful, and wouldn't stockpile as much.

[Psychic Chicken]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:20 AM, yourAnty said:

So I've seen more and more people over-time suggest a 'Lazy Deserter rework', especially after Wanda was released, this post is both for my idea to which I'll get to soon but also as a hub for klei to pick ideas from to make this forgotten structure used. My idea makes sure that Wanda's backtrek watches would still be a lot better in the long run, but also so people who don't like to play as her and/or play solo can have something similar.

So, here's my idea: Lazy Deserters no longer need more than 1 player to function, making them useful in solo play and not wasting other's time in multiplayer. IF there are more than 2 Lazy Deserters in the world (across shards counts) then the structure would teleport the player to the nearest one of the same gem/ or default if no gem is inserted. And last, Lazy Deserters would have the ability to have a gem socketed into them for easier linking, both across locations and across shards, all gemmed and not gemmed LD's would work the same, but couldn't work with other coloured gems/ a gemmed one with a non gemmed one, they just wouldn't work unless there's a LD of the same gem kind/ungemmed.

Feel free to correct every single grammatical issue.

Here's an idea: You can slot a desert stone into a LD, then your character has a subtle orange outline until you right click your character, teleporting to it at the cost of some sanity.

[goatt]

I think lazy deserter is good as is.

If you want something that can teleport you somewhere without others' help, just like telelocator staff and telelocator focus, maybe create another structure using deserter stones, but don't merge that function into lazy deserter.

One simple workaround is to let telelocator focus to accept deserter stones in place of purple gem. Deserter stones are way cheaper than purple gems cuz you can trade them massively using eggs. 3 eggs to replace 3 purple gems, that'll make deserter stones a lot more useful without changing much of the current balance.

[Bumber64]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:35 AM, goatt said:

maybe create another structure using deserter stones, but don't merge that function into lazy deserter.

Why? What's the point of making it another structure?

[goatt]

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Why? What's the point of making it another structure?

Because it will mess up the current lazy deserter mechanism. I can't think of a way to add the mechanism mentioned in op to lazy deserters while preserving the simplicity of the current lazy deserter mechanism.

[Waynel]

Nope. I think teleporting over long distances as a solo character should remain Wanda exclusive.

Now if we get to a point where most players get extremely envious of Wanda's unique ability, we could consider erasing Wanda from the game altogether.

[Copyafriend]

2 hours ago, Waynel said:

Nope. I think teleporting over long distances as a solo character should remain Wanda exclusive.

Now if we get to a point where most players get extremely envious of Wanda's unique ability, we could consider erasing Wanda from the game altogether.

Well its fine if you think it should remain exclusive to wanda thats your opinion maaaan

 

but really? If wandas teleport is so good then delete her? Feels pretty extreme ngl.

 

also I think the idea of making it out of different gems for different teleports is a good idea, but i think it can be expanded upon. Perhaps you can craft the desert stones into a desert socket, and insert the various gems. Then you can carry a stack of carved stones and three gems in a bundle and insert the one needed. But they all function as the old lazy deserter still when used with an uncarved stone.

[Bumber64]

10 hours ago, goatt said:

Because it will mess up the current lazy deserter mechanism. I can't think of a way to add the mechanism mentioned in op to lazy deserters while preserving the simplicity of the current lazy deserter mechanism.

Prioritize LDs that are being channeled by players, ignoring the gem mechanic?

I think you'd have to give the LD a desert stone or gem to perform a one player teleport, in order to keep the default action as channeling.

[maksym]

i have a better idea. we approach the ld, activate it, our sanity begins to fall, and at this time when it is active, we can take stones and tie them to this teleport. after which the stones will be with spikes meaning that it is charged. now when we go somewhere we have 2 stones charged for different teleports, use 1 to teleport to the base, the second to teleport to the dragonfly for example. the function of free movement between 2 teleports will still be available, but you need a friend or use charged stones

gems will destroy all his coolness we have a telelocation center if you want to use gems. there is Wanda and her teleporter. it should become a more cost-effective but less functional replacement.

telelocation - teleports anything

portal - spends amethyst and teleports players

ld - spends a charge of the stone and then it will need to be reactivated by spending sanity

and make either ld more expensive by increasing the required number of stones. or add a percentage to the stones that were once activated, that is, you tied the stone to 1 teleport, now you can use it 5 times and then it will break. because one-time use is too expensive, considering that you only need to trade in the summer to get them

idea for a telelocation center. you need to insert 3 gem to activate it and after that we can use the staff 3 times. because 3 gem to move 1 creature is very expensive which makes this idea not very useful

[goatt]

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

I think you'd have to give the LD a desert stone or gem to perform a one player teleport, in order to keep the default action as channeling.

Your scenario will be a perfect scenario. I can see it can cause confusion / griefing in pub:

1. Socket LD troll / confusion. When some player inserts a stone in LD intentionally or unintentionally, all the other players are prevented from using LD.

2. Disruptive solo LD troll / confusion. When some player wants to activate a solo trip via LD, some troll or confused people touch LD.

I think it's a good idea to seperate LD network from Solo TP network.

[GodIess]

There is another interesting idea:
when building it, you can charge the Desert Stone and then it will work until someone touches another and teleports or the player uses the stone.
When it is charged, we can use the Desert Stone to teleport, after which we need to charge it again if we want to return in the future.
It would also be nice to add movement between caves because Wanda can do it

[ShakerGER]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:03 PM, Captain_Rage said:

Telltale Hearts are useless in single player worlds and nobody cares nor should care. >_> The Lazy Deserter is perfectly fine as it is (unless you want to make domesticated Beefaloes and other mechanics for traversing the world completely redundant).

Is the tell tale heart a boss drop?

[Captain_Rage]

1 hour ago, ShakerGER said:

Is the tell tale heart a boss drop?

No, and if it got added to a boss loot table I would not be whining about it.

[Dextops]

 

1 hour ago, Captain_Rage said:

I would not be whining about it

i would. Crying just thinking about it

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, ShakerGER said:

Is the tell tale heart a boss drop?

The Hibearnation Vest and insulated pack are, but if I'm playing solo WX they're pretty useless. The eyebrella is and when I'm playing anyone, uh I mean Wormwood or Wurt, it's not very useful either. Basically everything Toadstool drops is cosmetic.

I don't think there's any issue at all that if you kill one of the easiest bosses in the game, who you're already encouraged to kill because it stops his harassment, the item you get is very powerful if you play Together together and not the best otherwise.

[maxwell_winters]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:38 AM, Waynel said:

Nope. I think teleporting over long distances as a solo character should remain Wanda exclusive.

Now if we get to a point where most players get extremely envious of Wanda's unique ability, we could consider erasing Wanda from the game altogether.

Apart from teleporting, Wanda has

• The strongest weapon in the game which is also refuelable 
• The only whip-like weapon that deals more than the spear damage
• The unique healing mechanic
• A cheap resurrection item which can be reused on other players infinitely

In no way creating a better teleportation system would make her obsolete. In fact, they should also add a whip which deals at least tentacle spike damage as a boss drop. 

[Bumber64]

17 hours ago, goatt said:

Your scenario will be a perfect scenario. I can see it can cause confusion / griefing in pub:

1. Socket LD troll / confusion. When some player inserts a stone in LD intentionally or unintentionally, all the other players are prevented from using LD.

2. Disruptive solo LD troll / confusion. When some player wants to activate a solo trip via LD, some troll or confused people touch LD.

I think it's a good idea to seperate LD network from Solo TP network.

1. If a stone is inserted, anybody who inserts a stone into another LD (or uses a stone in inventory when nobody's channeling) is teleported there.

2. If someone is channeling LD, anybody who activates an LD without item (or uses a stone in inventory) is sent to the channeled LD.

Gems either work the same as stones, or you slot gems before using stones on LD (in which case the stones are consumed while the gems are preserved.)

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

The strongest weapon in the game which is also refuelable 

It's not the strongest. It swings slow so it's on par with a dark sword, making a dark sword the strongest since Wolfgang can deal 2.00x damage with it and Wanda can only deal 1.75x.

3 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

The only whip-like weapon that deals more than the spear damage

I would honestly prefer if the alarming clock wasn't a whip and was just a refuelable dark sword. It being a whip offers minor benefit to cowards but just playing normally all the whip does is control awkwardly.

3 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

The unique healing mechanic

Why are you listing downsides now lol

3 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

A cheap resurrection item which can be reused on other players infinitely

A roleplay perk. Resurrecting is already just a spider gland or a red gem so if you're on a world where you've killed antlion resurrection is basically free. The only time that is helpful is if you're on a pub and the players there are SUPER bad and dying every single day, and you want to keep reviving then to be nice.

What Wanda actually has is damage that's almost as high as Wolfgang's, and for an extremely high cost she can teleport around. If Wolfgang could have superior damage and superior harvesting and superior teleporting Wanda would just be a more difficult and less rewarding version of Wolfgang. 

[goatt]

17 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

1. If a stone is inserted, anybody who inserts a stone into another LD (or uses a stone in inventory when nobody's channeling) is teleported there.

2. If someone is channeling LD, anybody who activates an LD without item (or uses a stone in inventory) is sent to the channeled LD.

Gems either work the same as stones, or you slot gems before using stones on LD (in which case the stones are consumed while the gems are preserved.)

Good design. It will totally work.

But it will also totally work as an independent structure.

I feel design something unique as such and put it on an existing building is kinda rare in this game. In other words, I can't think of anything hybrid like this in this game.

Your design will work, but i can't like it, cuz it's just weird, personally to me.