Poll: What changes would you like to see for Wormwood, if any?

[loopuleasa]

Source thread is this:

Previously I asked "What character do you main?" and after, I contacted people that replied to the poll, I compiled a list of desired changes.

In this thread feel free to vote and discuss about this character.

[Waoling]

Terraform stuff.

[Waoling]

And more trap.

[goblinball]

I’d remove the thing where is bloom is worse in winter (takes longer to bloom, runs out of bloom faster). This really doesn’t serve any purpose and just makes winter more annoying.

[Waoling]

1 minute ago, goblinball said:

I’d remove the thing where is bloom is worse in winter (takes longer to bloom, runs out of bloom faster). This really doesn’t serve any purpose and just makes winter more annoying.

Maybe he becomes a winter flower or something.

[Hornete]

I just want bramble traps resetting automatically near a blooming wormwood, and one brand new crafts to replace the poison balm from Hamlet. Other than that, the character is as perfect as it gets for me, for sure in my top 3 favourite characters, if not my favourite.

[Waoling]

Just now, Hornete said:

I just want bramble traps resetting automatically near a blooming wormwood, and one brand new crafts to replace the poison balm from Hamlet. Other than that, the character is as perfect as it gets for me, for sure in my top 3 favourite characters, if not my favourite.

Why is the trap reset automatically near blooming wormwood?

[Theukon-dos]

My brother in Christ you could have done this all in one thread

[loopuleasa]

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

My brother in Christ you could have done this all in one thread

initially wanted to do it all in one thread, but it's not supported

max number of questions per poll is 5 unfortunately, and I didn't see how to make a big poll

[Waoling]

Just now, loopuleasa said:

initially wanted to do it all in one thread, but it's not supported

max number of questions per poll is 5 unfortunately, and I didn't see how to make a big poll

Just make it a regular thread.

Why does it have to be a poll?

[loopuleasa]

1 minute ago, Waoling said:

Just make it a regular thread.

the whole idea I had for all that prior work was to have poll like structure for people to vote and discuss

it took a while to compile all the replies, just adding them in a thread wouldn't gather the vote data

[Waoling]

1 minute ago, loopuleasa said:

the whole idea I had for all that prior work was to have poll like structure for people to vote and discuss

it took a while to compile all the replies, just adding them in a thread wouldn't gather the vote data

But it even harder for people to find these thread, if you make it just one thread then it be much easier for me to collect the data.

[loopuleasa]

Just now, Waoling said:

But it even harder for people to find these thread, if you make it just one thread then it be much easier for me to collect the data.

but how to vote on the options?

the data is in the votes

at the time I didn't see another way, and I wanted to finish fast as I have to go soon

[HowlVoid]

Hello everyone, I'd like talk to you about our beloved Wormwood; can you spare a moment?

Changes to a character are never easy, but it's important to understand that changes aren't going to break the character or ruin the experience. I'd like to talk about the choices I made today and why I think they will fill some gaps found in Wormwood's gameplay. A gap doesn't mean a character isn't good, does not work as intended, or even not fleshed out in a thematic way. Filling in gaps is meant to round out a character to be the best they can be and fulfill their potential in every way that makes sense.

Blooming speed 30% [Yes]

I know I'm repeating myself, but when you think of Wormwood what other thing comes to mind? Blooming. It's not farfetched to say blooming is Wormwood's identity. Yet when compared to other speed modifiers in the game, magi, walking cane, cobblestone, or even beefalo, Wormwood's 20% speed boost becomes an outlier. While you may think "Well Wormwood can stack most of those". You know who else can stack most of those? WX-78, can. This isn't meant to trash on Wx-78 but to use him as a guideline. For a rabbit, a gear, and few other things he can reach a near permanent state of 25% speed, 5% more than Wormwood. Now he can reach higher states of speed but I'd count those as multiple perks as he is sacrificing more and more potentially beneficial circuits in exchange. When comparing his lower speed Wormwood's blooming is also impacted by a few things, Winter, upkeep, and transformations that normally can't be skipped. A mere 5% increase, but in Wormwood's favor, is an attempt at making that identity more impactful. I don't think another character deserves that speed more than Wormwood. As it is now it can even be more beneficial to use a beefs speed as it tends to not just be faster, less upkeep, but also safer.

Bramble Husk [Yes]

The bramble husk has been recently buffed which is great. However, the synergy between Wormwood and his own crafts still falls flat. Synergies are important, not to be selfish and deny others some team co-operation, but to solidify a team players place in that team. Anyone can use Wormwood items, sometimes to a greater effect than himself, this reduces Wormwood to creating the items and falling back to a more passive role. This is like if Wanda crafted alarming watches for others and become weaker for it, Maxwell making puppets for other characters and watching from the sidelines; no matter the case it doesn't feel good. Increasing the synergy, the bond, between Wormwood and his items is rewarding the player for learning that character, interacting as that character, and mastering that character. Wormwoods bramble triggering while blooming is that reward, an effect meant to safe guard him from further harm given he already took damage beforehand to craft the living logs. Characters with greater defensive capabilities, no healing dowside and even their own thorn effect make greater use of Wormwood's own craft and this does also benefit team play. There's just no reason why Wormwood can't benefit in a unique way also, if not that effect, increasing the damage when blooming is a good compromise (so not to disturb the already high damage of other characters).

Bramble Trap [Yes]

The trap is in a similar place as the husk in regards to a lack of synergy. The upkeep of traps and management of them is what tends to push more knowledgeable players to more time saving methods such as mob spawners. This is a character exclusive craft so I don't believe there is a reason for it to be so clunky and unintuitive, what's more every time a trap misses Wormwood losses health (due to crafting living log) and if the all the traps are unable to kill all of the intended targets then that's more potential health loss. In order to keep it balanced I think Wormwood should have the reset effect centered at his feet only in order to still require some skill and caution when trying to hit the same mobs with the same traps more than once.

The Compost Wrap [Yes]

Finally, I think the compost wrap is in a weird place when it comes to healing progression. Not as accessible or as much healing potential as a tent in the super early game, not as synergistic or available as the bat bat middle game, and not as powerful and easily farmable as jelly beans late late game. When we compare the blooming effect, it also fall in a weird spot in progression. Not as available as spoiled fish early game and not as powerful or manageable as growth formula late game. I understand newer players use them as they might not know about purple gems from graveyards or are unable to rush the ruins, so it's place is good for what it does. An upgrade for it would be the perfect solution that implements the current compost wrap and gives every Wormwood more value per nitre, while not disturbing the current flow of healing progression. Allowing to skip tiers in blooming would also allow the character more transformation control found in other characters such as Wanda, Wolfgang, and Woodie. This item would always be a crucial craft in Wormwood's kit as all unique character crafts should be. 

Thank you, for reading this and hopefully keeping an open mind. Let's strive to build a better Wormwood today so we can have a perfect Wormwood tomorrow.

[vorti]

I just copypaste my older comment here, because why not.

On 4/26/2022 at 11:44 PM, vorti said:

My random ideas:

(We can say these would make me play them more, but I didn't really think any of these through.)

[...]

Wormwood

• (You guessed it, ) more unique crafts. Given he's a plant guy, there are even less limitations. Maybe he could always pacify treeguards, grow a whip out of his hand, weaponize that aggressive weed that grows from farms sometimes or deconstruct stuff using the green gem in his chest at maximum lunacy. Hopefully at least one of these could be balanced.

[Pig Princess]

I would like bramble traps to become unpickable by mobs when deployed: I want to construct various types of monkey killing areas regardless of nightmare cycle.

Increased damage of bramble husk (to break at least 25hp treshold, but 34 would be even better), even if applied only in case wearer is blooming Wormwood, would be also very nice.

And there is a bug that should be fixed as well: Wormwood doesn't start to bloom in spring if he joins the server in spring after disconnecting in non-spring season. I guess that happens because he doesn't catch the beginning of spring, but regardless of the reason, would be cool if he could bloom normally.

[pyroisshy]

Bramble traps need to be cheaper to craft. So many are needed for them to be effective, and they cost a living log each. Maybe each craft should give 2 traps

[HowlVoid]

4 hours ago, Hornete said:

I just want bramble traps resetting automatically near a blooming wormwood, and one brand new crafts to replace the poison balm from Hamlet. Other than that, the character is as perfect as it gets for me, for sure in my top 3 favourite characters, if not my favourite.

I don't see how he's perfect when his most important perk, blooming is so easily dismissible. When you think Wolfgang you think WOW 2x damage, or Wx-78 WOW 25% easy speed, Wordwood's is 20%... Its so lackluster when it's his most defining perk. Imagine if Wolfgang had 70% dmg, Maxwell only had 1 puppet, etc. It's especially sad because a beefalo is FASTER unless he starts stacking more and more external factors/items. Those are supposed to supplement an already existing strong perk, not make up for a lack of one. He has one the most impactful dowsides in the game.

The compost wrap falls of almost immediately when it comes to healing progression. The more knowledgeable you become with the game the more you realize how many better alternatives there are. This includes for blooming... It just need a quick upgrade to remain relevant. Having so many valid arguments against it wouldn't make it perfect imo.

The bramble husk... I could live staying the same. Though I hope it doesn't. With how niche the thorn effect is, it mostly competes with other armors in the defence category and in that regard it's not the best. Marble suit and night armor are far better when dealing with stronger threats. Having a unique synergy would make it perfect. I know the case of just because I don't use it doesn't mean others don't exists. I mostly play solo so the flaws are more "in my face" than others. 

To me perfection is a strong bond between Wormwood and his own craft that can't be so easily replicated. Not just for the sake of uniqueness but to strengthen the different approach one decides to take when using a new character. Adding a new layer of variance and comprehension to a character and the kit that revolves around them.

[Hornete]

9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I don't see how he's perfect...

I think hes fun.

that's perfection to me.

 

[loopuleasa]

29 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I don't see how he's perfect when his most important perk, blooming is so easily dismissible

To be fair, I don't think his blooming speed perk is easily dismissable, nor his most important perk.

[Riddla]

I think some small & fun Blooming perks would be really cool. Maybe a teeny tiny health regeneration from rain, or accelerating plant/tree growth when you're close by. It'd be also interesting to see more bonding interactions with plants, e.g. draining or giving them a piece of your life for exchange.
 

[Mike23Ua]

New planet mobs (preferably naturally hostile towards anyone but Wormwood) Add more Hamlet like features to make Wormwoods perks shine.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Hornete said:

I think hes fun.

that's perfection to me.

 

Aren't those two different things...?

Seems like when you said perfection you were alluding to game balance. Improving some gaps in his kit isn't going to make less fun either.

1 hour ago, loopuleasa said:

To be fair, I don't think his blooming speed perk is easily dismissable, nor his most important perk.

If you can get on a beefalo and ignore it completely knowing you're not losing out on a lot (or anything really, 2dmg on a darksword?)... I'd call that dismissable. 

Importance can be a gray area and subjective, but the reason why I call it important is because of how impactful speed is. In a game that may revolve around time management speed is crucial. Blooming is also make up a very large part of his identity. If you don't think it's important... Well that's kind of my point, that means to you it's dismissable. Speed should never not be important, unless it's not that impactful.

[Faintly Macabre]

27 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Aren't those two different things...?

Seems like when you said perfection you were alluding to game balance. Improving some gaps in his kit isn't going to make less fun either.

6 hours ago, Hornete said:

the character is as perfect as it gets for me

And calling his speed boost his defining perk seems incredibly reductive to me. He saves tons of time farming (and his products last a bit longer unpicked), he has some of the simplest, most readily accessible sanity loss and recovery methods in the game, he sneezes an important resource (living logs), bramble husks and traps are incredibly useful (especially since the former got so much better and cheaper to make).

And who would ever actually dismiss blooming? It's 15 extra hunger per day for a permanent speed boost that doesn't require dragging a beefalo around everywhere. I'm not mounting and dismounting a beefalo over and over again just to get around my base. Or in lots of other places, as there are plenty of places where taking your beefalo is an accident waiting to happen.

Also, the speed of a rider beefalo with the glossamer saddle is 10.85. The speed of a blooming Wormwood with cane + magi is 9.9. That's not a trivial difference, but frankly it's small enough that if I don't have to move a lot of stuff around I only hop on my beefalo for longer trips.

[HowlVoid]

22 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And calling his speed boost his defining perk seems incredibly reductive to me.

Speed is an important facet, if not the most important in the game. It is the most universal form of saving time in all aspects of the game. 

I have played Wormwood since his inception in Hamlet (on console) and it surprises me that anyone would disagree that blooming his is most defining perk. Blooming is to Wormwood as Abigail is too Wendy, something that is represented in every skin, how he is represented in the hamlet trailer and just something that every Wormwood player interacts with no matter in which way they decide to approach gameplay as him (it is forced in spring).

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He saves tons of time farming (and his products last a bit longer unpicked), he has some of the simplest, most readily accessible sanity loss and recovery methods in the game, he sneezes an important resource (living logs), bramble husks and traps are incredibly useful (especially since the former got so much better and cheaper to make).

Firstly, not everyone plays Wormwood as a farmer, that is something that was fleshed out AFTER his debut in Hamlet. Wormwood isn't represented as a farming character, and how sad to try and tie a whole character's identity to small patches of land, where as in Hamlet he made all the jungles his playground. Farming is a part of Wormwood now, however it does not represent him, it didn't in Hamlet it doesn't now. 

I don't know why you're bring up his lesser perks next? Wolfgang can mine faster when mighty, Wigfrid can make helmets, what of it?

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And who would ever actually dismiss blooming? It's 15 extra hunger per day for a permanent speed boost that doesn't require dragging a beefalo around everywhere. I'm not mounting and dismounting a beefalo over and over again just to get around my base. Or in lots of other places, as there are plenty of places where taking your beefalo is an accident waiting to happen.

 I have plenty of counter points for buffing Wormwood's speed using Wx-78 as a guideline, the fact that he cannot out run beefalo (whether you use them or not, and some people do and ignore blooming), and when comparing it to other speed modifiers it is an outlier.

My point is how comparatively it underperforms and given it is his most defining perk it should be stronger than that. The question is how much speed is enough speed? When making a case that you hope the developers will see you present objective numbers since as game development progress minds change and old designs get left behind. In this case Wormwood's perk is 20% speed and Wx-78's is 25%.

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Also, the speed of a rider beefalo with the glossamer saddle is 10.85. The speed of a blooming Wormwood with cane + magi is 9.9. That's not a trivial difference, but frankly it's small enough that if I don't have to move a lot of stuff around I only hop on my beefalo for longer trips.

Now, what if I used your line of think against you (your beefalo example)? What if I said I don't like having to refuel my magi or I don't like having to take off my backpack? Subjective preferences makes things tricky. All I can do is appeal to minds that think as closely to my line of thinking and everyone else is a lost case. With enough alike minds it at least proves my idea has some merit.

Having said that I have no clue what your argument is about and how it's relevant to the thread. Do you not want his speed increased? How does it affect you negatively? 

I find when other forumers approach a disagreement without an objective in mind and their only intent is to counter subjective opinions about "who plays the game how" it devolves into a shouting match. I can't change your mind on how you play the game, and I certainly don't want to waste my time doing so.