Do you think Dst should be more popular

[CaptainChaotica]

I've never really hated or run off from something just because it was Popular (though I do sometimes get really annoyed with a thing that EVERYBODY talks about ALL. THE FREAKING.  TIME to the point where it makes me not want to try that thing myself...right _then_, anyway) but what I fear, in _making_ something niche...ish more popular, is that it might become more Mainstream.  Now, I have faith in Klei, I don't think they'll go this way, but you know what I mean:  Suddenly, all the characters are conventionally attractive, generic love stories are shoved into plots where they don't make any sense, writing gets dumbed down/turned into whatever style is In at that time, whether it fits the original thing or not...you know.  Hollywood-izing. 

In games, well...the reason indie games tend to be so much more creative than the big expensive blockbusters is they cost less to make, so there's less at stake, so you can experiment around with it more.  But if an indie game studio suddenly decides they want a blockbuster AUDIENCE...

Anyway like I said, I VERY much don't think Klei would ever go _that_ far; they're not gonna do the game equivalent of taking off their glasses, putting in contacts, bleaching their hair blonde, throwing away all their dark goth clothes and start hangin' with The Plastics in pink Ugg boots while talking about BOYS!!!! all the time, (so with DST this would equal...taking away the game's last remaining roguelike elements, turning the art style saturated and cutesy, and suddenly writing canon love triangles into the lore) but when people get iffy about something niche-esque that they like starting to go Mainstream, THAT'S what they're worried about happenning.  (Well, for me anyway.  Some might indeed be more worried about letting in the riff-raff, I guess.)

...and mind you, there's nothing wrong with being pink, blonde and into boys, either, as long as you're not a bad person!  It's just that I don't think that style would fit Don't Starve, specifically.

Spoiler

 

As for fandoms being toxic...well pretty much all the big ones have at least toxic _elements_--and of course, THOSE are the ones who get all the attention!  Nobody does pictures/articles/videos/memes etc. of in-shape, well-adjusted anime fans with jobs and families or bronies who shower regularly and mountain-bike on the weekends. But sometimes the bad stories can get SO bad, and SO widespread, that...well, if you're like me and you're still curious about the original thing they're all fans OF, because you've heard that it actually _is_ good, the only way you CAN enjoy it is to stay the heck away from the community until AFTER you've made your own opinions.  (Actually this is a good idea for first-viewings in general, because it can also help avoid spoilers.)

Like three or four things I do actually quite like are known for having AWFUL fandoms, to the point where I wouldn't admit liking the thing myself to random strangers, only in private to people I trust.  But sometimes, a bad (reputation) fandom might be accidentally covering up good content.  So if possible, go straight to the episodes themselves first, and you might find something you like...and again, can only tell good friends about.  : P

 

...Notorious

[Ornge]

13 hours ago, LinknAllie said:

I never said popular = bad. 

 

On 4/13/2022 at 8:09 PM, LinknAllie said:

 When something becomes popular the fanbase ruins it.

That aside I think we can agree that toxic communities do exist and can ruin games for a lot of people (especially ones solely based around multiplayer) and I'm not going to try to argue that they don't. However to argue that a popular community = toxic community solely because it's popular and to say that therefore don't starve doesn't deserve more players because that would somehow ruin the game is stupid.

[jan Mele]

12 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

You know what's "cringe"? Unironically using cringe as a noun in 2022. And unnecessary us vs. them. And gatekeeping.

I got news for you: there are plenty of "not normal" people here. And thank god, too. The game probably wouldn't still exist without a lot of them.

Ya'll's "not normal" content is ******* everywhere. Why does everything have to be targeted towards vain, sensitive, empathetic people who need to be constantly complimented? I'm not against content targeted to them, I'm just not interested in this. Even if people like this are interested in things I am, it's usually for completely different reasons, for completely different aspects. 

What does "normal" even mean in this day and age?

[Capybara007]

i really wish dst had rust levels of popular

[Faintly Macabre]

5 hours ago, jan Mele said:

Ya'll's "not normal" content is ******* everywhere. Why does everything have to be targeted towards vain, sensitive, empathetic people who need to be constantly complimented? I'm not against content targeted to them, I'm just not interested in this. Even if people like this are interested in things I am, it's usually for completely different reasons, for completely different aspects. 

What does "normal" even mean in this day and age?

First of all, I'm not part of much of any "ya'll," let alone the bogeyman you're swinging at.

Second of all, what does vanity, sensitivity, empathy, or a need to be complimented have to do with ****ing anything? Just more "us vs. them" BS. A whole world of people exist that this game could be made more attractive to who don't have anything to do with any of that.

Third, the question "what does normal even mean" is an own goal, since I wasn't the one who supposed what normal is in the first place. 

[jan Mele]

5 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

A whole world of people exist that this game could be made more attractive to who don't have anything to do with any of that.

You want another generic game designed to appeal to most people? A lot of things about DST that appela to the established fanbase are things that wouldn't be sought after by the majority of that "whole other world of people". Is it wrong to enjoy DST as is? 

Optional modes? Sure, fine. Improved ui? **** yea. Anything that takes away from things I enjoy? I won't say that everything should be the way I want it, but saying that I am not allowed to dislike something is idiotic.

You probably dislike spam. 

[Faintly Macabre]

3 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

You want another generic game designed to appeal to most people? A lot of things about DST that appela to the established fanbase are things that wouldn't be sought after by the majority of that "whole other world of people". Is it wrong to enjoy DST as is? 

Optional modes? Sure, fine. Improved ui? **** yea. Anything that takes away from things I enjoy? I won't say that everything should be the way I want it, but saying that I am not allowed to dislike something is idiotic.

Neverminding that I actually don't have a strong opinion on the topic one way or the other and mostly came in to have a whack at the paranoid "tumblr's coming for muh survival gaem" crap...

No, nobody here wants another generic game designed to appeal to most people. That should seem fairly obvious to most, even someone looking to squash a discussion with a terrible bad-faith argument. There is a lot of distance between where we are and "generic" that could be maneuvered in and then stopped because contrary to some people's belief, the slippery slope is just a hypothetical argument and not immutable law.

And yes, somebody saying that you're not allowed to dislike something is idiotic. When that actually happens, you should tell them so. Since my issue was not that anybody dislikes the idea of change, but rather their lame, exclusionary, prejudiced rationalization for why, it's not relevant here.

[jan Mele]

4 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And yes, somebody saying that you're not allowed to dislike something is idiotic. When that actually happens, you should tell them so. Since my issue was not that anybody dislikes the idea of change, but rather their lame, exclusionary, prejudiced rationalization for why, it's not relevant here.

Sure then

[Catteflyterpill]

48 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

[SNIP]

 

 

17 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

Sure then

Not really my place to say this, but let's try to not let things get too heated.

As for the subject of the discussion, I think there's lots of people who haven't heard of or tried DST who would really enjoy the game. I don't think this means that Klei should attempt a more generalist approach, but I think through the pattern of good reputation and quality marketing DST will continue to grow. There's a lot of things to enjoy in the game for different playstyles, but that doesn't mean this should be a game for everyone - because there's just too much variety in tastes to try and cater. 

[Chesmu]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:29 PM, Capybara007 said:

i have a feeling that dont starve is not popular for a reason, even if people nowadays say that its becoming too casual or that its way less scary, the game its still so though for new players which might be the main reason why it isnt as popular

for me its totally fine if klei decides to change a little bit the core of the game to be more begineer friendly, to not always being sticked to that root that original dont starve is

in my opinion in its current state dont starve will not be more popular but i sure would like it to be

I would like klei to not further dumb-down the game, since they did "WAY" too much handholding already!

There is also something weird about new DST players: They seem to be all veterans of 1TB RAM action-adventure games, MOBA legends, RTS masters, and such when you visit their Steam profile, but they suddenly find this colorfull casual game that literally explains what every Item does, to be thoughest game of all; I just don't believe them, since the only thing a newbie doesn't know is that darkness kills them, and the rest can be managed and get learnt pretty fast, like in all games you lose a few games and you get going after that.

The real problem here is people dismissing the exact thing that makes games like this fun, which is discovering of new stuff with time, and replaying it; They are too much in rush and are "Achievement Hunters" that want to beat a game and post a screenshot as soon as possible and move on to the next big thing. But DST is about slowly learning, discovering, experiencing and having fun sometimes doing mistakes, and to laugh at that moments.

So If developers make this game a handheld easy to unlock everything in a moment kinda game, it will lose most of its charm.

On 4/13/2022 at 10:15 PM, Waoling said:

Since the new Switch port has just come out this could be a gateway for Dst to get more popular and mainstream, but is a good thing?, do you think Dst should get more popular and why?

Let's be honest, I'm not gonna name anything but you can pretty much get it: Think about all the things that are popular at Earth right now! See anything weird about it? do you see any talent in many popular songs or other subjects? Nope, because what becomes popular, becomes so due to many mental tactics on the public, money related stuff, infulence, and some shady practices of all kind,

To be popular close to that level in short time makes something subject to that, but there are actually products, companies, stuff and people that are popular enough without any of those I mentioned, but they built their legacy in a honest way, and in a VERY long time, still not reaching the screaming and fainting fans or worldwide billboards, because there is a bar and a limit to how far you can go being unique and honest.

[Faintly Macabre]

24 minutes ago, Chesmu said:

I would like klei to not further dumb-down the game, since they did "WAY" too much handholding already!

What handholding is there in DST? Are you just using a buzzword without actually knowing what it means?

In fact what is this entire post? It just looks like more made-up us vs. them bunk. Just how many profiles have you checked? You really see a whole lot of people that heavily invested in completely and utterly different genres like MOBAs, RTSes, and so on making a blind foray into this obscure, cartoony survival game? And they really find this the "toughest game of all"? "The only thing a newbie doesn't know is that darkness kills them?" Really, that's the only surprise in the game? And what version of DS are you playing where the game "literally explains what every item does?" Most items hint at what they do at best.

And you really think Achievement Hunters, those madlads with tons of platinum trophies from all kinds of games, struggle with this one in the slightest? The game has an incredibly informative wiki, you know.

Did you just google "indie gamer gatekeeping rhetoric" and copy/paste what came up?

[Chesmu]

@Faintly Macabre

Oh that's a bit more questions than I expected but here:

Handholding means when a developer gives players hint (recently added), nerfs the mobs, while boosting stats of characters, and adding strong new characters (Happens weekly), introducing more and more ways to survive, such as advanced farms and automatic Winona defenses, making uncomprehensive and vague categories more explaining, (Crafting UI) and simply providing for the player resources of all kind, an abundance.

Back in the day we didn’t have 100 gems and chests full of resources just sit there. Those are courtesy and "handholding" of developer towards the players, intentionally or not, that increase player’s chance of survival.

My post was my complaint to a player's post about being okay if developers make it "beginner friendly" and "change the core game" a bit.

I've checked about 14 profiles while playing DST; They had over 400 games and had more than 1000 hours in some extremely strategic games that require skill, item usage, crafting and such, and still asked "Where is base?" "Come pick me up at portal", "Help AAAAAH", and such.

Simply every gamer that didn't just start gaming yesterday, has a knowledge of how to survive in all games, acquired from reading reviews, guides, discussions, wiki (as you mentioned) and observing the tags and trailer video of the game.

Games like MOBA and Action games are not totally different from DST, since DST has fighting, and the fighting here is extremely easy as you just dodge the mob and run away and there you go! Surely a person fighting a champion of other real player with all kinds of surprises can handle a punch from a Pig man, and surely every player who has slightest idea of HP, Hunger and depleting bars of stats know to keep them up so they don't go down; Now the players don't have a darkness bar, and in majority of other games, darkness doesn't kill you, so this would be totally surprising and guarantee at-least a single death in carrier of the player, even the experienced gamers will struggle with this at-least once.

Rest are not surprises since they know they have HP bar, meaning there are hostile creatures all around them, and they know they will starve since there is a hunger bar, and so on, and the small details about other topics is where the fun of discovery rests; Many other games have torches too but they are not used for any purpose like this.

Achievement hunters might also struggle with this, but the main complaint I have against them is about rushing all the games without giving in to the experience, only to get a 100% and a screenshot of dead bosses, which then result in them wanting games nerfed, less time consuming and with no walls to get whatever they want done fast to move on to the next game. So developers must be careful not to destory the fun and charm of their game only to help these players pass quicky.

 

 

[jan Mele]

13 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Just more "us vs. them" BS.

When did I say that I have more rights for entertainment? I wouldn't be happy about seeing more content that doesn't interest me in my feed, that's it.

[MondayNight]

11 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

What handholding is there in DST?

Solely March's QoL update introduced in-game tips & hints at loading screens. Default Quick-Access Crafting Menu has Campfire, Torch, basic tools and Science Machine in it, essentially guiding players into the tech&survival path. Descriptions for every in-game item in down-left corner of new Crafting UI. Said update also toned-down the difficulty of Hound Waves and Deerclops' attack. Some time ago KLei added basic starting resources and seasonal items past day 10, default. Spawn Area protection. CookBook & farming data, on demand, in form of in-game item(s) - Premier/Gardeneer Hat. Etc. Then there are the basic differences in Survival hardship between DS and DST: introduction of Telltale Heart to revive on demand via other players, Life Giving Amulet doesn't need to be worn to revive, player doesn't need to activate Touchstones, Endless Mode. Slow fire-spreading mechanic. Caves not triggering Overheat in Summer. Better Thermal Stone and insulation. Etc. Nowadays certain people even advocate for in-game tutorials and NPC guides. Need I write more about "the dumbing-down of DST"?! And yes, we will probably get those tutorials too & co, and that's that for the spirit, the essence of DS. If all-listed above aren't "hand-holding" we probably are playing different games. I won't write these are good/superfluous/bad for game's health, player-base as a whole, player "retainability" and whatnot - most likely are ok to expand on short-to-mid term the total number of players. At the theoretical expense of original, hardcore-survival fans I reckon. Yet don't pretend DST wasn't "dumbed-down" over time (I won't argue in what capacity though), is disingenuous.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

Handholding means

It means almost none of the things you said. The closest you got was mentioning the new tips on loading screens, and if you guys really think "completely random, brief, basic tips about the controls and interface" is handholding, you're just plain out to lunch. Handholding is pretty specifically an intensive process of guidance and instruction, either explicit (like tutorials) or implicit (obvious logical tracks laid out leading you to a certain outcome), which the game's new loading tips simply are not. And putting the most basic things everybody is going to need starting out on the quick pin bar, that's handholding too? Did you guys' parents drop you in a field at age 5 and tell you to get home on your own? Your standards for what constitutes handholding at all, let alone a lot of it, are insane.

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Yet don't pretend DST wasn't "dumbed-down" over time

I did not, in fact, argue or pretend DST hasn't been "dumbed down," though I object to calling everything you listed (such as providing resources to players joining a world in progress, which may be picked barren of basic needs to a point where survival is impractical in a way that never occurred in the original game at all (save Adventure Mode, where a level that starts you out in Winter... gives you much the same things), or how the point at which hound waves are now less frequent and less busy is a point at which they're no longer an actual challenge but just a thing that keeps you from doing other things you'd like to do) "dumbing the game down."

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

I've checked about 14 profiles while playing DST while playing; They had over 400 games and had more than 1000 hours in some extremely strategic games

Sorry, but I don't believe this. At best I suspect you're exaggerating, and quite a bit. And

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

still asked "Where is base?" "Come pick me up at portal"

These are not completely unreasonable requests even for more experienced players, lol

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

Simply every gamer that didn't just start gaming yesterday, has a knowledge of how to survive in all games, acquired from reading reviews, guides, discussions, wiki (as you mentioned) and observing the tags and trailer video of the game.

No? No. Like, no. Many different genres of games require skills that don't translate directly at all, not everybody reads reviews, not everybody reads guides, not everybody participates in discussions, not everybody checks wikis, not everybody pays attention to tags or trailers (which are not designed to teach people how to play games, when last I checked?)... just no

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

Games like MOBA and Action games are not totally different from DST...

I said they were completely different genres, and considering all games to be alike because of basic things like "there's bad guys you fight" is absurdly disingenuous. Suddenly all games are the same because you give them inputs to do things in them. Ridiculous. MOBA and RTS skills don't translate into any but the most basic way possible.

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

Rest are not surprises since

Frogs not only being aggressive, but teaming up on you, stealing all your items, and licking you to death isn't a surprise? Lightning striking and setting everything you see on fire isn't a surprise? Deerclops isn't a surprise? You know, you guys can't have it both ways. You can't have your uNcOmPrOmIsNg sUrViVaL and everything's just perfectly intuitive and natural to anybody. That makes no sense.

1 hour ago, Chesmu said:

Achievement hunters might also struggle with this, but the main complaint I have against them is about rushing all the games without giving in to the experience, only to get a 100% and a screenshot of dead bosses, which then result in them wanting games nerfed, less time consuming and with no walls to get whatever they want done fast to move on to the next game. So developers must be careful not to destory the fun and charm of their game only to help these players pass quicky.

No meaningful movement of Achievement Hunters have ever wanted games nerfed just to get their trophies faster and no developer with any integrity has ever done so, hahahaha. Wow. Good grief.

[jan Mele]

2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Need I write more about "the dumbing-down of DST"?! 

51 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I did not, in fact, argue or pretend DST hasn't been "dumbed down," though I object to calling everything you listed (such as providing resources to players joining a world in progress, which may be picked barren of basic needs to a point where survival is impractical in a way that never occurred in the original game at all (save Adventure Mode, where a level that starts you out in Winter... gives you much the same things), or how the point at which hound waves are now less frequent and less busy is a point at which they're no longer an actual challenge but just a thing that keeps you from doing other things you'd like to do) "dumbing the game down."

We got: decreased bee range, birds leaving flint and other resources for new players, less dangerous seasonal bosses, summer caves, Wendy rework, multiplayer and reviving hearts, easier hounds, no random spring starts by default, RWYS, possibly more resources... but we also got a number of mobs getting increased health, removal of armour stacking, less armour durability, removal of a number of exploits, rock lobster nerf, fog of war and a Maxwell nerf. 

A lot of these changes are explained by the fact that DST is a multiplayer game.

[minespatch]

16 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

A lot of these changes are explained by the fact that DST is a multiplayer game.

That's why I have to doubletake when people want a multiplayer game out of Oxygen Not Included. 

[Chesmu]

23 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

It means almost none of the things you said. The closest you got was mentioning the new tips on loading screens, and if you guys really think "completely random, brief, basic tips about the controls and interface" is handholding, you're just plain out to lunch. Handholding is pretty specifically an intensive process of guidance and instruction, either explicit (like tutorials) or implicit (obvious logical tracks laid out leading you to a certain outcome), which the game's new loading tips simply are not. And putting the most basic things everybody is going to need starting out on the quick pin bar, that's handholding too? Did you guys' parents drop you in a field at age 5 and tell you to get home on your own? Your standards for what constitutes handholding at all, let alone a lot of it, are insane.

It just means holding a hand that belongs to someone, if I get even more literal than that.

You hold someone's hand to guide them, but why? is it to help them find something? did you even hold someone's hand to show them an address they are asking for? nope, you hold hands for two reasons, to keep someone safe (mostly a child, or a granny that you are helping pass street), bringing them to safety and or to show someone affection.

Keeping the above in mind, developers which are unknown to survivors, if they apply nerfs, always hold hands of the survivors by giving them safety, abundance, providing them many ways to keep themselves safe, making more categories and explanations of items to guide them and not making the common mobs much more dangerous to also keep the survivors safe.

Since I don't think a mad scientist like Wilson passes as a 5 year old, his mom (developers) should indeed drop him in the field, since he is already a grown up and needs to know some stuff to be our adventurer.

23 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

No? No. Like, no. Many different genres of games require skills that don't translate directly at all, not everybody reads reviews, not everybody reads guides, not everybody participates in discussions, not everybody checks wikis, not everybody pays attention to tags or trailers (which are not designed to teach people how to play games, when last I checked?)... just no

No not everybody has to do all that, yet they all need to look at the tags and genre of the game they are launching to play right? For example I don't start my system to hear it suggest me a random suggestion of a game from my inventory, not knowing what I'm going to play today! So as I said if they didn't start gaming [in their lifetime] untill yesterday, they will have pretty much a good idea of how to survive and what to do.

23 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I said they were completely different genres, and considering all games to be alike because of basic things like "there's bad guys you fight" is absurdly disingenuous. Suddenly all games are the same because you give them inputs to do things in them. Ridiculous. MOBA and RTS skills don't translate into any but the most basic way possible

It's a harsh reality, tho MOST games are same concept even if they have different genre; Many genres share same traits, for example survival games have hostiles, starvation, and ofc survival (it's on the name) and food problem, since the characters are human mostly; In MOBA games you have the same thing, hostiles, matter of not dying or survival, and you also eat food and use sutff, but for healing and boosts! DST happens to share MANY traits with genres other than its own, but if it was a puzzle or tabletop game, I wouldn't make this argument since those are always casual with every inch of the game being unique and differen to even next title, let alone other genres.

 

23 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Frogs not only being aggressive, but teaming up on you, stealing all your items, and licking you to death isn't a surprise? Lightning striking and setting everything you see on fire isn't a surprise? Deerclops isn't a surprise? You know, you guys can't have it both ways. You can't have your uNcOmPrOmIsNg sUrViVaL and everything's just perfectly intuitive and natural to anybody. That makes no sense.

I mean if someone plays DST expecting to have a walk on sidewalk of a small city and work on office, then yes they would find these surprising! These are game-specific traits, for example some MOBA players will find a rare item used by the opponent to be surprising, because they never saw it before in the game, but everyone will find the "Darkness Kills" rule surprising since not only it's unique, it has no real life or fantasy reference! One might think it will be a bit dark and scary, with an aura of light around them (like other games), but they don't know the pitch-black darkness and the shadow hands in it.

 

23 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

No meaningful movement of Achievement Hunters have ever wanted games nerfed just to get their trophies faster and no developer with any integrity has ever done so, hahahaha. Wow. Good grief.

Achievement Hunter is a mindset that can be adpoted and dropped by any player; It doesn't have a movement that covers all people with this mindset, not a capital to gather them;That is why this is very dangerous since all can adopt this and eventually they will want nerfs or walls to be removed for them to pass.

 

I'm liking this discussion very much. Feel free to ask anything else on the topic.

[Guille6785]

the community is already terrible as is so nothing would change to me tbh

[Faintly Macabre]

3 hours ago, Chesmu said:

It just means holding a hand that belongs to someone, if I get even more literal than that

If you get literal, the developer literally can't hold your hand. Handholding is a figurative term, one that has a meaning decided by a broader group, and the broader group does not define handholding the way you do. You're just using a word you know is maligned by likeminded video gamers to evoke an emotional response in them that pulls them into your corner. Nerfs, buffs, tuning, expansion of solutions to problems, sensible categorization, basic information about how to interact with your inventory on a loading screen, none of these things are handholding. Sorry.

3 hours ago, Chesmu said:

No not everybody has to do all that, yet they all need to look at the tags and genre of the game they are launching to play right?

No.

4 hours ago, Chesmu said:

It's a harsh reality, tho MOST games are same concept even if they have different genre

In the most basic, largely meaningless ways, yes. But someone who's Super Bling Bling Platinum rank in Battle Royale Game Of The Season can have virtually no preparation for a game of Picross. This is just disingenuous nonsense.

4 hours ago, Chesmu said:

I mean if someone plays DST expecting to have a walk on sidewalk of a small city and work on office, then yes they would find these surprising! These are game-specific traits, for example some MOBA players will find a rare item used by the opponent to be surprising, because they never saw it before in the game, but everyone will find the "Darkness Kills" rule surprising since not only it's unique, it has no real life or fantasy reference! One might think it will be a bit dark and scary, with an aura of light around them (like other games), but they don't know the pitch-black darkness and the shadow hands in it.

I knew I wasn't having a stroll through a city on my way to a data entry job and I found those things pretty surprising! I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I don't consider myself an idiot, so I feel like that was a pretty fair and not-atypical experience. Also, everyone will find "Darkness Kills" surprising? No? I didn't find it surprising at all! And I suspect I'm far from the only one. I didn't know in advance it was going to happen, but the first time I died to it, there was no shock. Of all the examples you've given or been given, this is the only one that's actually fairly logical - all human beings are literally born with a notion that darkness outside of shelter is dangerous. It is very common in all sorts of games, and particularly survival games, for things to get dangerous in the dark. Are you always immediately murdered the moment the lights go out? No, but this is sure as hell not the only game where it happens.

4 hours ago, Chesmu said:

Achievement Hunter is a mindset that can be adpoted and dropped by any player; It doesn't have a movement that covers all people with this mindset, not a capital to gather them;That is why this is very dangerous since all can adopt this and eventually they will want nerfs or walls to be removed for them to pass.

Achievement Hunter is literally the name of a Youtube channel with 1.5m subscribers, with content revolving around the acquisition of various video games' meta achievements. There are lots of websites devoted to sharing tips and tricks and showing off your exploits in the world of achievement metagaming. To act like there are no significant collectives of them is silly; almost as silly as thinking they have ever, ever had any effect on the balance of any noteworthy game. This is pure (and utterly bizarre) paranoia. No game has ever been ruined for the sake of catering to people who want to play it, get trophies, and leave.

[Mike23Ua]

11 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Solely March's QoL update introduced in-game tips & hints at loading screens. Default Quick-Access Crafting Menu has Campfire, Torch, basic tools and Science Machine in it, essentially guiding players into the tech&survival path. Descriptions for every in-game item in down-left corner of new Crafting UI. Said update also toned-down the difficulty of Hound Waves and Deerclops' attack. Some time ago KLei added basic starting resources and seasonal items past day 10, default. Spawn Area protection. CookBook & farming data, on demand, in form of in-game item(s) - Premier/Gardeneer Hat. Etc. Then there are the basic differences in Survival hardship between DS and DST: introduction of Telltale Heart to revive on demand via other players, Life Giving Amulet doesn't need to be worn to revive, player doesn't need to activate Touchstones, Endless Mode. Slow fire-spreading mechanic. Caves not triggering Overheat in Summer. Better Thermal Stone and insulation. Etc. Nowadays certain people even advocate for in-game tutorials and NPC guides. Need I write more about "the dumbing-down of DST"?! And yes, we will probably get those tutorials too & co, and that's that for the spirit, the essence of DS. If all-listed above aren't "hand-holding" we probably are playing different games. I won't write these are good/superfluous/bad for game's health, player-base as a whole, player "retainability" and whatnot - most likely are ok to expand on short-to-mid term the total number of players. At the theoretical expense of original, hardcore-survival fans I reckon. Yet don't pretend DST wasn't "dumbed-down" over time (I won't argue in what capacity though), is disingenuous.

It makes me sad to see the game that I loved for being confusing and a struggle to figure out, now holding players hands with pretty much step by step guides…

It makes me even more sad to see the game becoming easier, without so much as even a hint of harder seasons/content anywhere in sight..

Im remaining hopeful that Klei giving us all this help is so they can later pull the rug out from under our feet when we get nice & comfy.

But Tencents acquisition of Klei Entertainment could’ve played a huge role in the whole “Over-Simplification” of features.. Yet: Klei devs assures us they maintain all creative control over the game- So I’m expecting to see that creative control in the next year or so when we get to those quote “more substantial” 2023/2024 updates.

[Faintly Macabre]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It makes me sad to see the game that I loved for being confusing and a struggle to figure out, now holding players hands with pretty much step by step guides…

This

does

not

happen

Don't Starve Together has virtually zero handholding. There is nothing even vaguely resembling a step by step guide in the game. You guys have got to chill on the hyperbole, unless you're fine with nobody who sees things differently from you ever taking you seriously. Hyperbole should have some basis in reality and the idea that DST gives anybody step by step guides has literally none. Regardless of any valid points you might have about simplification, casualization, or whatever, people who feel differently see this nonsense and even if they're not inclined to just stop reading your post altogether (like I was), the credibility of your message tanks.

If you just want to complain and get nothing done, stay the course I guess.

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

This

does

not

happen

Don't Starve Together has virtually zero handholding. There is nothing even vaguely resembling a step by step guide in the game. You guys have got to chill on the hyperbole, unless you're fine with nobody who sees things differently from you ever taking you seriously. Hyperbole should have some basis in reality and the idea that DST gives anybody step by step guides has literally none. Regardless of any valid points you might have about simplification, casualization, or whatever, people who feel differently see this nonsense and even if they're not inclined to just stop reading your post altogether (like I was), the credibility of your message tanks.

If you just want to complain and get nothing done, stay the course I guess.

k good argument just one thing. The game says maxwells real name which allows noobs to ruins rush which is too extreme in hand holding and should be removed in the next patch

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

This

does

not

happen

Don't Starve Together has virtually zero handholding. There is nothing even vaguely resembling a step by step guide in the game. You guys have got to chill on the hyperbole, unless you're fine with nobody who sees things differently from you ever taking you seriously. Hyperbole should have some basis in reality and the idea that DST gives anybody step by step guides has literally none. Regardless of any valid points you might have about simplification, casualization, or whatever, people who feel differently see this nonsense and even if they're not inclined to just stop reading your post altogether (like I was), the credibility of your message tanks.

If you just want to complain and get nothing done, stay the course I guess.

Hand holding would be where the game tells you what to do (If you can’t catch this Rabbit, build a Grass Trap & bait it with Carrot/Berries)

The game has in fact become more Hand-Holdy over its course..

Is that a good or bad thing? only time will tell…

If Klei doesn’t intend to add new stuff for us to figure out then yes? Probably..?

You can’t sit here and lie telling me that having crafting columns that now puts items and clothing into their own category to find out things like Summer/Winter items isn’t direct hand holding in its finest example.

Like seriously.. Who’s going to know an Umbrella is good for both Spring & Summer protection? These were thing you originally had to experiment with & discover on your own (or read wiki pages to spoil for yourself) when now the game says

Hey here it is: you us it for X Purpose.

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You can’t sit here and lie telling me that having crafting columns that now puts items and clothing into their own category to find out things like Summer/Winter items isn’t direct hand holding in its finest example.