QOL for Respawning Things, Drop/Track Chances, Crafting Cost and Refueling

[ZombieDupe]

There are many things that don't respawn and in long term worlds will leave many new players stranded for resources. Some of these things maybe shouldn't respawn in the traditional sense but maybe should be indestructible, such as pig houses. Getting some of the resources later in the game renewably becomes difficult as the earlier and easier options have been destroyed completely. The respawn locations are best left somewhat radom so that players can't simply identify respawn points and set up traps to farm resources.

Spoiler

* Reeds

* Spiky Trees and Spiky Bushes

* Cactus (both versions)

* Pig Houses (or the ones that spawn in the world to be indestructible)

* Gold Boulders (otherwise you have to find pig king or enter caves for some gold, either by meteors and/or just respawn in forest biomes too occasionally for easier access)

* Bee Hives (otherwise you have to hit bee queen hive too many times or kill bee queen for the loot)

* Tentacles (keeps the danger and you don't have to kill tentapillars in caves if you need tentacle spots)

* Fireflies (only 3 per summer if you catch them after every summer isn't fair with the amount of players that come and go, it's also something you can very easy just dump as fuel source for lantern and miner hat to dispose of)

* Moles? (Check my clarification about this one in post further down)

Few notes:

Many things could do with costing less too. If a pig house only cost 1 pig skin, rebuilding them would be much easier and someone hammering one would be less of a problem. Some other costs to consider would be for the straw hat, thermal stone, piggyback, some rare or hard to obtain crafting recipe items and so on. Ideally it would be good to limit the crafting resources to 1 or 2 of an item if it's rare, maybe a bit more if the resource is much more common.

Also drop chance for a lot of loot is annoying as you keep grinding to kill multiple of the same creature for a chance to get an item. If drop chance was guaranteed for more things you could think of it as the player overcoming a challenge for a fair reward, like goat horn, tentacle spots or beefalo horn. Otherwise if players new to the game don't get any special loot the first time, why would they think to kill something tough again if they assume it drops nothing let alone dozens of times? It just becomes tedious and not fun at all.

More things should be possible to repair or even combine/recycle to basic materials in some way. It is often annoying to have to get rid of items with low durability and for higher end items to be left with no way to repair them and losing them, with the only way to really get back what you used being a very limited and small durability deconstruction staff, only possible to craft in the ruins.

A few things that respawn but don't respawn enough I noticed are grass and berry bushes. Trees respawn a lot, but these two resources don't respawn anywhere near enough and you end up with very little of that resource available. For someone more experienced in an unmanaged world, grass can become more valuable than gold.

The way you implemented Volt Goat respawn mechanic is great although it shouldn't necessarily be the player's job to maintain herds. If up to 2 or 3 herds of goats and beefalo could respawn on their own if there's less than that in the world or in specific biomes (desert and savanna) that would be fantastic. Means if those herds die out new players aren't left with thinking that they just are extinct forever. I also end up never tracking suspicious dirt piles, as fun as it is to do, because of the dangerous creatures it can spawn randomly that I can't deal with on my own. Maybe if much like with goats you tracked a creature in a specific biome, you would have guaranteed chance to get that creature there, it would be useful. For example Beefalo in Savanna, Varg in Forest, Goats in Desert (always in desert, no matter what season or weather condition), Koalefant in Grass biome and Ewecus in... Mosaic?

Speaking of chances to find things, there was previously mention of being able to find the Tentapillar for the Atrium easier. The initial suggestion was for having an item, but I suggested a method which I think is a bit more nuanced for this. You could take this same approach for a number of biomes that have nothing really to them as paths to finding essential or useful content for progression in conjunction with pieces of progression that really aren't that intuitive right now. Like for example the somewhat obscure clockwork statue pieces? Just throwing it out there.

All these changes would be massive QOL additions in my opinion. I hope you consider all of them in some way.

[QuartzBeam]

5 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Fireflies (only 3 per summer if you catch them after every summer isn't fair with the amount of players that come and go, it's also something you can very easy just dump as fuel source for lantern and miner hat to dispose of)

Fireflies respawn regularly in the waterlogged biomes, provided there's fewer than 10 under the tree's shade.

[Baark0]

If goat herds die out then you can get more by doing oaisis hunts in spring while raining, yeah its specific as hell and new players wont even find that out other than by chance. My point here though is that if you don't want to do that, then it is your job to maintain your goat herds, at least by leaving 1 alive so they can respawn.

For repairing things: what do you really need repaired? Bee queen crowns? just kill more bee queens, same goes for fuelweaver bone helms. No weapons or tools need to be repaired since they're all relatively cheap to create new versions of, except for the trident, which you can just deconstruct at like 37% durabiility or something to get 2 horns back, at which point you can use a green amulet to make a new trident/ Sure it's a little conveluted, but it's better than wasting a bunch of time implementing a whole repairing system that you'd only use for one niche item.

Moles are dropped by catcoons which im pretty sure respawn thanks to yotcc update.

Removing the danger from the hunts would make them less fun imo, plus the mobs arent that hard to kill, just grab some pigs/spiders/merms and hold f with any decent weapon and armour. Fun fact, ewecus cant stun you if you're riding a beefalo.

Bushes/tufts/saplings should respawn on non endless worlds, i agree

Having 100% drops for things like beefalo/goat horns and tentacle spots would mean either you get tons of a valuable resource, or your world gets flooded with hundred of beefalo horns because deerclops/bearger wiped out one too many herds, which going back to the volt goat point, should be your responsibility to maintain if you want to keep beefalo around.

[ZombieDupe]

34 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

If goat herds die out then you can get more by doing oaisis hunts in spring while raining, yeah its specific as hell and new players wont even find that out other than by chance. My point here though is that if you don't want to do that, then it is your job to maintain your goat herds, at least by leaving 1 alive so they can respawn.

For repairing things: what do you really need repaired? Bee queen crowns? just kill more bee queens, same goes for fuelweaver bone helms. No weapons or tools need to be repaired since they're all relatively cheap to create new versions of, except for the trident, which you can just deconstruct at like 37% durabiility or something to get 2 horns back, at which point you can use a green amulet to make a new trident/ Sure it's a little conveluted, but it's better than wasting a bunch of time implementing a whole repairing system that you'd only use for one niche item.

Moles are dropped by catcoons which im pretty sure respawn thanks to yotcc update.

Removing the danger from the hunts would make them less fun imo, plus the mobs arent that hard to kill, just grab some pigs/spiders/merms and hold f with any decent weapon and armour. Fun fact, ewecus cant stun you if you're riding a beefalo.

Bushes/tufts/saplings should respawn on non endless worlds, i agree

Having 100% drops for things like beefalo/goat horns and tentacle spots would mean either you get tons of a valuable resource, or your world gets flooded with hundred of beefalo horns because deerclops/bearger wiped out one too many herds, which going back to the volt goat point, should be your responsibility to maintain if you want to keep beefalo around.

Completely disagree. None of this should be your job to manage. There are management simulators that are fun in their own way, this is a survival game and when survival, you shouldn't have to worry about that your attempts to survive will start creating lag and require you to do a chore. It is simple to implement.

For repairs, again, it's a chore to kill bosses over and over, if I could repair, say bee queen crown, morning star, thulecite crown, bone armor with something common or somewhat reasonably rare (honey/honey comb/bees wax, thulecite, fossils if made renewable) I would be fine with that as it means I get to keep the item and use it over and over without having to worry about it breaking so much and having to kill a boss again unless I lost it (this could be solved a bit with getting blueprints for such items as well, to then be able to share with other players as well without having to kill a boss over and over). Even if we are talking about cheesing and farming bosses it is a chore in and of itself and I would much rather have more fun fights I do occasionally than over and over simply because of some item want or QOL necessity. It's already enough if not too much that you have to kill multiple bosses or specific creatures for getting more of an item for ONE player, but now you have to get multiples of items for multiple players, and with players coming in and out and a few staying around for longer, they will become very possessive of rare loot and leave nothing for anyone else. If someone joins and takes something that they don't understand the incredibly rare value of because it just happened to be lying around, then leaves and never comes back, that is also a bigger blow to someone who got it for themselves in the first place than it should be. First come, first take it all, that's not fun cooperative survival at all!

Because of that, I think ideally you want resource abundance in specific places to keep scarcity in specific places, but not globally. This way survival aspect is retained while no world management is needed, stuff respawns appropriately. World management also won't normally exist in worlds unmanaged as it is much easier to lose source of resources than it is to get them back. Hence you won't get grass anywhere in ruins for example even if you desperately needed it, but savanna and some grass areas, even some places in caves will have you covered.

Also the danger of hunts would not be removed. You have no control where the tracks will end up at times and you won't know until you search till the end how many tracks you really need to go through to get to the creature. You may go from grassland to forest and get a Varg, or it may go back to grassland and you will get a Koalefant.

[ALCRD]

My dream is to one day be able to replant Cave Banana trees

[Baark0]

9 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Completely disagree. None of this should be your job to manage. There are management simulators that are fun in their own way, this is a survival game and when survival, you shouldn't have to worry about that your attempts to survive will start creating lag and require you to do a chore. It is simple to implement.

For repairs, again, it's a chore to kill bosses over and over, if I could repair, say bee queen crown, morning star, thulecite crown, bone armor with something common or somewhat reasonably rare (honey/honey comb/bees wax, thulecite, fossils if made renewable) I would be fine with that as it means I get to keep the item and use it over and over without having to worry about it breaking so much and having to kill a boss again unless I lost it (this could be solved a bit with getting blueprints for such items as well, to then be able to share with other players as well without having to kill a boss over and over). Even if we are talking about cheesing and farming bosses it is a chore in and of itself and I would much rather have more fun fights I do occasionally than over and over simply because of some item want or QOL necessity. It's already enough if not too much that you have to kill multiple bosses or specific creatures for getting more of an item for ONE player, but now you have to get multiples of items for multiple players, and with players coming in and out and a few staying around for longer, they will become very possessive of rare loot and leave nothing for anyone else. If someone joins and takes something that they don't understand the incredibly rare value of because it just happened to be lying around, then leaves and never comes back, that is also a bigger blow to someone who got it for themselves in the first place than it should be. First come, first take it all, that's not fun cooperative survival at all!

Because of that, I think ideally you want resource abundance in specific places to keep scarcity in specific places, but not globally. This way survival aspect is retained while no world management is needed, stuff respawns appropriately. World management also won't normally exist in worlds unmanaged as it is much easier to lose source of resources than it is to get them back. Hence you won't get grass anywhere in ruins for example even if you desperately needed it, but savanna and some grass areas, even some places in caves will have you covered.

Also the danger of hunts would not be removed. You have no control where the tracks will end up at times and you won't know until you search till the end how many tracks you really need to go through to get to the creature. You may go from grassland to forest and get a Varg, or it may go back to grassland and you will get a Koalefant.

I mean in a survival game, the goal is to survive, so if you plan to eat goats to survive, yeah it should probably be your job to maintain the herds so that you dont need another food source. I wouldn't call leaving 1 goat alive so they can respawn a management simulator, and if you're really that impatient and need to kill that one last goat, then the drawback is having to do hunts in spring to create a new goat herd. Idk, just seems kind of redundant for goats to respawn naturally when theres already a way to spawn new goats in. Besides gekkos and maybe beefalo i dont really see any ways your survival attempts could create lag, please feel free to elaborate on this.

I personally enjoy killing bosses, i get it's not for everyone, but there are plenty of ways to easily farm bosses, namely winona's catapults, even just 4 will dramatically speed up any boss fight. Maybe I'm just used to farming bosses but I feel as though that's how the game is kind of meant to be, if you want the good rewards of a boss, you should have to kill said boss to get the desired rewards. Ultimately though, repairing seems like it'd just be a noob trap that gets newer players to spend resources to repair items which they've already been able to get once at least (by them or someone else on the server). The way I see it, the alternative if you dont want to re kill bosses such as bee queen and fuel weaver is to just not let their helmets break.

[ZombieDupe]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:28 AM, Baark0 said:

I mean in a survival game, the goal is to survive, so if you plan to eat goats to survive, yeah it should probably be your job to maintain the herds so that you dont need another food source. I wouldn't call leaving 1 goat alive so they can respawn a management simulator, and if you're really that impatient and need to kill that one last goat, then the drawback is having to do hunts in spring to create a new goat herd. Idk, just seems kind of redundant for goats to respawn naturally when theres already a way to spawn new goats in. Besides gekkos and maybe beefalo i dont really see any ways your survival attempts could create lag, please feel free to elaborate on this.

I personally enjoy killing bosses, i get it's not for everyone, but there are plenty of ways to easily farm bosses, namely winona's catapults, even just 4 will dramatically speed up any boss fight. Maybe I'm just used to farming bosses but I feel as though that's how the game is kind of meant to be, if you want the good rewards of a boss, you should have to kill said boss to get the desired rewards. Ultimately though, repairing seems like it'd just be a noob trap that gets newer players to spend resources to repair items which they've already been able to get once at least (by them or someone else on the server). The way I see it, the alternative if you dont want to re kill bosses such as bee queen and fuel weaver is to just not let their helmets break.

Sounds to me like you are thinking in context of a single player experience. The game is multiplayer oriented and many people will play like that, you should consider multiplayer mayhem as an issue but also to have fun with and not having some player experience ruined because they lost everything as a result of it. Having to put in work to regain a source of a resource because of someone else due to carelessness, malice, accidents or whatever else is not fair and creates a world management scenario. The thing to note is the have to part. If the respawning happened slowly, even if only one or two herds were to just respawn on their own a few days after all the herds were wiped out, I would consider that more or less fair, it would be your choice to wait or aim to get more in place right now if possible.

Survival attempts being someone else at least (or rather a lot of other players) coming in and because of how they play, littering the world with even more items around, whatever skillset they may be. It shouldn't be your job to clean up after them. Again, multiplayer setting, something that can be taken into account but isn't, despite this supposedly being a multiplayer-first game.

The farming should not be such a necessity, or killing multiple times long-term. It does become grind at a certain point. Yes, the reward should be only given when a boss is killed. However, once you do, there shouldn't be any necessity to kill it again in my opinion. It's stretching gameplay time for no reason. If you can cut down time and get a sense of progression without grind, it should be done pretty much always in my opinion. Make the player overcome a challenge, but don't make it a chore. Honestly getting blueprints for the loot when killing a boss for its loot or something like that and being able to craft said boss items if you have learnt the blueprint sounds fair enough. Other players can then get loot if you craft extra for them and you can craft extra for yourself, however other players would have to fight a boss themselves if they want a blueprint for said loot or if there is none to offer them an item. It also means that the loot later down the line wouldn't need to be gate kept so much. Someone takes your bone helmet? Just craft another if you have the resources to craft it, and the other player can have fun with the other item without you dreading just how rare that item really is. Doesn't work for all boss loot, but it can be done for some already. Though Dragonfly itself drops scales only (so it's not the best example), the furnace blueprint lets you craft as much scaled furnaces as you can afford. Not the same thing with something like Bee Queen crown or Fuel Weaver's loot.

[Baark0]

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

The farming should not be such a necessity, or killing multiple times long-term. It does become grind at a certain point. Yes, the reward should be only given when a boss is killed. However, once you do, there shouldn't be any necessity to kill it again in my opinion. It's stretching gameplay time for no reason.

by this logic if i can craft rope once i should have infinite rope since ive clearly shown im able of crafting one rope. I've already eaten 75 hunger worth of food which is how much you lose in a day so i shouldnt have to eat anymore, its just stretching out gameplay for no reason gathering more grass/food.

If it's a multiplayer world, then it's the hosts job to make the world the players want it to be, if the players dont want to hunt new goats then the host/server admin could just spawn in a new herd. Again, can be the hosts job to clean up the world if there's too many items littering the world.

[Cheggf]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:18 PM, Baark0 said:

Moles are dropped by catcoons which im pretty sure respawn thanks to yotcc update.

They also fall from the sky during earthquakes and I think can be inside tumbleweeds.

[jan Mele]

You can get pig skin with the mooncaller staff event

On 3/26/2022 at 2:03 AM, ZombieDupe said:

(or the ones that spawn in the world to be indestructible)

NO

[ZombieDupe]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:37 AM, Baark0 said:

by this logic if i can craft rope once i should have infinite rope since ive clearly shown im able of crafting one rope. I've already eaten 75 hunger worth of food which is how much you lose in a day so i shouldnt have to eat anymore, its just stretching out gameplay for no reason gathering more grass/food.

If it's a multiplayer world, then it's the hosts job to make the world the players want it to be, if the players dont want to hunt new goats then the host/server admin could just spawn in a new herd. Again, can be the hosts job to clean up the world if there's too many items littering the world.

Not exactly. There are challenges you are supposed to continuously struggle with, like hunger, periods of lack of resources at times as they may be inaccessible until you move to a different area (if you were being negligent, lessened as you get better at the game), weather, hound waves and so on. Without reoccurring challenges there would be no gameplay left. Later in the game you do get to ease yourself on these challenges as you get better tools to overcome them and are presented with other challenges, until you inevitably get into a looping set of it, like the seasons cycling through. However some challenges such as bosses can be seen more as forms of progress. Having to fight the same bosses multiple times, especially if they are raid bosses becomes a chore however. There is a balancing act to do here, but I definitely don't want to have to fight more of the same bosses with damage sponges for rare items just so I can get more of those rare items for myself. It also creates a bottle neck in a pub as people will have to live without having the chance of getting some of these items earlier because first come, first serve.

It should not be the hosts' job to clean **** up if possible to automate it through game mechanics. That is how it probably happens on a lot of worlds now, but it should not be the case. Why should they? If the host is going to respawn things anyway, why not have this happen automatically? Why should players intervene with console commands just to take out such annoying oversights?

On 3/28/2022 at 8:56 AM, jan Mele said:

You can get pig skin with the mooncaller staff event

NO

Yes because getting 3 pigskin from the mooncaller event when situation is dire is a very reasonable thing to ask from a player who has never player the game before.

I recognize there are possible issues that indestructible pig houses that spawn in the world could cause. But that's something that can be taken into consideration from development perspective. Simply saying "no" to an idea shows invalidation without considering anything or how you see the idea presented, I would suggest you elaborate next time if you care enough to respond at all.

On 3/28/2022 at 1:57 AM, Cheggf said:

They also fall from the sky during earthquakes and I think can be inside tumbleweeds.

I guess I should have clarified what the idea behind respawning moles was. The point was to have them respawn in the biomes they would typically be found to start with. As is now, the biomes you find moles in the long term when they get can dug up and hammered are different from ones they respawn in. With tumbleweeds they may be most likely in desert or any other biome if the tumbleweed escapes the desert as they often do, while with catcoons, those spawn only in deciduous. I'm not 100% sure which biomes themoles are first spawned in, but I know I have seen some in grass biomes, mosaic and maybe evergreen forests.

Or a simpler solution could be to just make them spawn from the beginning in biomes they would normally respawn in right now anyway, like the deciduous biome as it is annoying seeing moles steal flint in grass biomes when you first join in and have very little flint to go around, especially in older worlds where the first few pieces of flint will likely be dropped by birds. And you can't get it back really if you don't have a shovel as it also requires flint.

[jan Mele]

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

Yes because getting 3 pigskin from the mooncaller event when situation is dire is a very reasonable thing to ask from a player who has never player the game before.

What do you suggest next, removing hunger bars? I know it was a hyperbole, but games are built on restrictions. How is the fact that these resources don't respawn so much worse than other game elements that will give consequences to players' actions? It doesn't even restrict what you can do in throw away worlds.

Removing all sources of a resource will leave the latter unavailable if you spend your reserves. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. The game is literally built upon getting good using knowledge. And, well, sandbox elements. (By no means saying that the game is flawless) 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

when situation is dire

You can spam heal, you can use other weapons, you can use other armour. If any of those aren't an options, 1 How??? 2 It's probably your fault. If early game log suits are too "grindy" for you, then I can say that not hammering pig houses is too grindy/random for me. Not only that, making pig houses indestructible will leave people who like to decorate with unwanted props.

On 3/26/2022 at 2:03 AM, ZombieDupe said:

  Hide contents

* Gold Boulders (otherwise you have to find pig king or enter caves for some gold, either by meteors and/or just respawn in forest biomes too occasionally for easier access)

* Tentacles (keeps the danger and you don't have to kill tentapillars in caves if you need tentacle spots)

* Moles?

 

You don't even have time to go down to caves? Man, how the f4ck do you play?

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

Simply saying "no" to an idea shows invalidation without considering anything or how you see the idea presented, I would suggest you elaborate next time if you care enough to respond at all.

Btw, forgot to mention that your only justification for these changes is your subjective feeling *you* are experiencing. You didn't even try to explain *why* you are feeling this. 

[Gerrard]

I like the actual status of some items being "renewable" but scarse, that's the magic that got me and my wife into the game... the fact that you can clean different biomes (like swamp) at the cost of not getting future tentacles. Same for Beehives...

I like the idea of being able to replant or respawn the swamp reeds in some kind of way, even if it's a boss that drops the reef to be planted (like a reef alligator that spawns on the beach lunar biome?)

The actual way for most of items makes it so they're renewable but you need to "be careful", micro managing decisions on one side and being able to be a bit more free on the other, makes the game so unique to us.

Just our opinion though!

 

[ZombieDupe]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:36 PM, jan Mele said:

What do you suggest next, removing hunger bars? I know it was a hyperbole, but games are built on restrictions. How is the fact that these resources don't respawn so much worse than other game elements that will give consequences to players' actions? It doesn't even restrict what you can do in throw away worlds.

Removing all sources of a resource will leave the latter unavailable if you spend your reserves. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. The game is literally built upon getting good using knowledge. And, well, sandbox elements. (By no means saying that the game is flawless) 

That is inherently awful and unfair game design by any stretch of the imagination that works purely for "throw away" worlds and for sure makes some people inconsiderate. This is not how you do restrictions, especially in an open world survival sandbox.

On 3/31/2022 at 6:36 PM, jan Mele said:

You can spam heal, you can use other weapons, you can use other armour. If any of those aren't an options, 1 How??? 2 It's probably your fault. If early game log suits are too "grindy" for you, then I can say that not hammering pig houses is too grindy/random for me. Not only that, making pig houses indestructible will leave people who like to decorate with unwanted props.

I don't like chopping down 2 big trees or the equivalent + shovelling up a stump, then collecting 6 grass total, getting it refined to rope near a science machine along with the suit itself, all just to give a mediocre armor that won't last very long, and if I want more I'm gonna have to put more time sink into that. It is a pointless grind, there is no fun in that. Things should cost resources, but if the effort for the cost is so boring and time consuming to do then it can't really be justified to a player. Collecting resources should be, and can be more fun in and of itself, especially if you do it briefly or in a more adventurous way, but this game doesn't really do too much of that with basic resources. Not to mention, many players not even recognizing armor when they play, people usually don't wear armor when in a survival situation, so why would you? Either way, that is besides the point. There can be a few dire instances, especially if you play as someone frail like Maxwell or Wanda in some cases.

Also it seems you misunderstood what I mentioned about pig houses. I was differentiating between the pig houses that are spawned in the world by default and the pig houses you can build. The ones you build could still be removed or at least easier. Need I mention that it's just a beginning to a possible solution? You can expand upon or tweak ideas or have a different approach entirely, letting yourself and others think about an issue and trying to come up with a solution. If you drop the basic premise of what an idea is trying to solve right from the start, you won't be able to make any decent design decisions as a developer, short-minded stubbornness just doesn't work to accomplish anything well in the industry. Imagine if Klei looked at their first iteration of changing the game UI and when they didn't like the first idea, they dropped trying to do anything about it on the spot and everything was left as it always has been. That's currently how you are treating this. You don't always get to the best solution from the get go, you might even take a path that works just as bad if not worse, but trying is what's important. You can think "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but the fact of the matter is that it IS broken, you just probably don't see how, even when explicitly explained why somehow.

On 3/31/2022 at 6:36 PM, jan Mele said:

You don't even have time to go down to caves? Man, how the f4ck do you play?

Pretty sure I explained this well enough after for you to try and read what I wrote further down and try and understand why I mentioned this.

On 3/31/2022 at 6:36 PM, jan Mele said:

Btw, forgot to mention that your only justification for these changes is your subjective feeling *you* are experiencing. You didn't even try to explain *why* you are feeling this. 

It is not a subjective feeling, when resources are destroyed and you can't get anything like it again, that's it. Or if getting the resource back is small amount of it by going through very specific hoops to get more of it again, as opposed to how you used to get more of it in the first place then that's almost equally as bad in many circumstances. Let me give you a few examples.

All goats dead? During spring, during a rain, hunt tracks and hopeyou end up in oasis then wait.

All pig houses destroyed and pigs dead? Craft a star caller staff in the ruins, go through the mooncaller staff event, try to get some pig skin that way.

All bee hives destroyed? Spend huge resource sink to kill bee queen that only respawns every 20 days for a few honey combs, pick tumbleweeds or go to Pearl's island just to get bees.

All reeds burnt? Pick tumbleweeds for a measly chance to maybe get one.

All cactus or kelp burnt? Abandon world or use console command to respawn them.

On 3/31/2022 at 6:55 PM, Gerrard said:

The actual way for most of items makes it so they're renewable but you need to "be careful", micro managing decisions on one side and being able to be a bit more free on the other, makes the game so unique to us.

Players, especially new ones will not be "careful", period. Survival is instinctively more important when you see yourself in a game like this the first time, you will not care. If it can be destroyed, at some point it probably will be. And that's what developers should consider as a problem. I don't understand how the uniqueness plays a beneficial role here, there are other games where things are not renewable and that has never really been a positive. The only exception to this is if you are playing to complete a story or campaign as opposed to playing open world. What's the fun of a sandbox if playing in it you actively remove sand with everything you touch or having to add more sand yourself?

Also I have yet to see where micromanagement is any fun in any game. Oxygen not included works well where the world management aspect works and would be expected, as, well, you are managing a colony in a limited space. But even in that game micromanagement is super annoying. The only slight exception to that I could see being automation, as not only does it teach you a little bit about how computers generally work but it is one very good approach for progression in the game.

[jan Mele]

9 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

It is not a subjective feeling, when resources are destroyed and you can't get anything like it again, that's it.

And then you just said "and that's bad"

Like, the game is resource management one. Do you expect epic action from picking grass?

All damage to resource renewability is preventable. 

9 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Players, especially new ones will not be "careful", period. Survival is instinctively more important when you see yourself in a game like this the first time, you will not care.

Isn't learning new information and applying it the next game is the point for the first X amount of hours?

[chincer]

not sure what everyone else things but i feel blueprints should be able to be put in an alchemy machine instead being learn per player so that machine offer you the option to craft that particular item, it would make it interesting i think

i dont particularly enjoy the fact some boss drops, even for a server where is just my friend and i are "ok next year we will both have one" like the eyebrella, but i guess it is fair

many things should respawn in the world the second no other of that one exist or too few of them, if all beefalos are gone the start a timer and a small herd respawn after so many days, if all berry bushes only account to lets say 20 then more should randomly grow, it makes some griefing less punishing on a world and stop endless games from feeling empty sometimes

[Captain_Rage]

Moleworms reappear rather often (from cave-ins and tumbleweed). Not sure how the mechanisms behind reeds and cacti fully work but if they indeed can become extinct that should be addressed. Catcoon Dens also since they tend to disappear with time, never to be seen again.

[ZombieDupe]

17 hours ago, jan Mele said:

And then you just said "and that's bad"

Like, the game is resource management one. Do you expect epic action from picking grass?

All damage to resource renewability is preventable. 

The resource gathering can be made more fun certainly. Something as simple as getting multiples of something from picking one is a good example of that, light bulbs in caves don't ever get tedious to gather whenever I do it on occasion at least. It's also about the amount of a resource you need for crafting something, if it's too much and you lose an item too quickly the task of getting resources for an item again becomes annoying to do.

And just because damage is technically preventable, doesn't mean it will be. There is a good reason why even the best players often value good and useful armor in this game.

17 hours ago, jan Mele said:

Isn't learning new information and applying it the next game is the point for the first X amount of hours?

Yes, but it's future proofing. Not really fun if you overcome all obstacles and by the time you do, you have desecrated all of the hard to renew or non-renewable resources in your world. In a multiplayer setting especially, you should not have to worry about some new player learning the game messing stuff up. Them messing around should be the fun that's safe enough to recover from for the sake of that future proofing.

Griefing is also a major factor here, a clever griefer will just burn all reeds, cactus and whatever else that isn't easily renewable in the world. If those resources just respawned appropriately, you wouldn't have to get worked up about it, especially when it is not your fault, and wanting to play in a public server should be fun, not something that would just destroy your experience.

[Atkvin]

More reeds should spawn by swamp ponds, and cactus in the desert in their respective seasons - these resources are actually critical for some characters' unique crafts or for accessing CC, and you can be entirely shafted on the former by RNG which makes gathering it repeatedly grating.

For everything else, I'm not sure. Neither volt goats nor pigs offer critically important resources - and like mentioned the former already has an existing way (albeit obscure) to spawn more, they just need to communicate that better through game design like most things in the game. There are alternatives to obtain the remaining resources or mobs which encourage different gameplay which is great - the most prominent example being players have a reason to fight BQ again for more beeswax for more bundling wraps, gold is NEVER a lacking resource from earthquakes and pig king, and tentapillars can be hunted for spots, which you can then switch to & use as Wicker to spawn more tentacles on the surface should you desire them.

If your goal is not for balance and to just be evil like I am though, I'd probably respawn tentacles by ponds with reeds so players meet some old friends when delighted by the growth of their new reeds.

[Prinha]

In the past I have spent quite some time playing for up to 600 days on official Klei servers. I will comment with this particular experience in mind:

- Pigskins become a very rare ressource after about 15-50 days. This is because there is a constant stream of players that hammer down pighouses without ever rebuilding them. It's not rare to have players lose 60+ pigskins by accident or simply log out never to be seen again. This is pretty annoying as it becomes very difficult to craft umbrellas and desert goggles for all the new players coming onto the server,
 I have personally spent entire DST years running the moonstone event and rebuilding pigfarms from nothing, just to keep up with spring and summer needs, watching them with an ice staff and a stack of waterballoons constantly. Imo op's concern is valid for disorganized and unmoderated multiplayer servers. I don't think indestructible pighouses is the solution though. 

- Reeds. Not even once was burned down reeds a problem. Griefers don't usually run around in the swamp and helpless newbies die there so quickly, they can't really do much harm. Losing a couple of reeds is no biggie, but even if it was, caves and lunar offer reeds, too. That being said renewable or relocatable reeds would be cool and a possibly interesting alternative for people that force a reedtrap in their worlds for various reasons.

- Spiky Trees and spikey bushes offer almost nothing unique besides their look. Sticks can be gotten in winter by other means (twiggy trees, grass gators). Building a setpiece with this ressources in the desert/swamp might be relevant for some people, but is usually not of high priority for the afformentioned disorganized multiplayer servers. Having a way to renew them isn't going to harm anyone, but probably not very important either.

- Cactus. Similar to reeds I have yet to encounter a world, where all cacti had been burned. If it ever happened, it would completly block all the content gated behind flower salad. While I don't think that this happens often, a way to renew them would still be cool.

- Gold Boulders. Gold is imo one of the most abundant ressources in the game, thanks to PigKing. I get it, newbies don't know where to find gold, once the mosaic is cleared, but that's just because they are newbies. While I personally don't care wether or not these regrow, a point has to be made. Part of the survival in survival game is getting by on few and scarce ressources. While you can comfortably pick up carrots as veggies in the beginning, you WILL have to find other means of getting veggies, simply because the carrots run out. Same thing with gold boulders, rocks, etc etc. So progressing to the less obvious but often times more efficient methods of gathering x ressource is part of the game. Also part of the game is decorating your base with gold boulders though.

- Tentacles. Jesus, there is already way too many of these things. They are easily renewable in large amounts by wickerbottom. The celestial portal allows everybody to play as wicker and spots aren't very important for anyone but wickerbottom, too. No thank you. While we are at it: Please don't grow additional spider dens over time.

- fireflies had already been mentioned. Use the water logged biome.

- moles: has already been mentioned. After spending any decent amount of time in the caves, they usually become overrun by moles. Beides moles don't really go extinct, because they have to be KILLED and their burrow dug up. It's not something players do with every mole in the constant.
-

[BonesJrOfficial]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:03 PM, ZombieDupe said:

There are many things that don't respawn and in long term worlds will leave many new players stranded for resources. Some of these things maybe shouldn't respawn in the traditional sense but maybe should be indestructible, such as pig houses. Getting some of the resources later in the game renewably becomes difficult as the earlier and easier options have been destroyed completely. The respawn locations are best left somewhat radom so that players can't simply identify respawn points and set up traps to farm resources.

  Hide contents

* Reeds

* Spiky Trees and Spiky Bushes

* Cactus (both versions)

* Pig Houses (or the ones that spawn in the world to be indestructible)

* Gold Boulders (otherwise you have to find pig king or enter caves for some gold, either by meteors and/or just respawn in forest biomes too occasionally for easier access)

* Bee Hives (otherwise you have to hit bee queen hive too many times or kill bee queen for the loot)

* Tentacles (keeps the danger and you don't have to kill tentapillars in caves if you need tentacle spots)

* Fireflies (only 3 per summer if you catch them after every summer isn't fair with the amount of players that come and go, it's also something you can very easy just dump as fuel source for lantern and miner hat to dispose of)

* Moles? (Check my clarification about this one in post further down)

Few notes:

Many things could do with costing less too. If a pig house only cost 1 pig skin, rebuilding them would be much easier and someone hammering one would be less of a problem. Some other costs to consider would be for the straw hat, thermal stone, piggyback, some rare or hard to obtain crafting recipe items and so on. Ideally it would be good to limit the crafting resources to 1 or 2 of an item if it's rare, maybe a bit more if the resource is much more common.

Also drop chance for a lot of loot is annoying as you keep grinding to kill multiple of the same creature for a chance to get an item. If drop chance was guaranteed for more things you could think of it as the player overcoming a challenge for a fair reward, like goat horn, tentacle spots or beefalo horn. Otherwise if players new to the game don't get any special loot the first time, why would they think to kill something tough again if they assume it drops nothing let alone dozens of times? It just becomes tedious and not fun at all.

More things should be possible to repair or even combine/recycle to basic materials in some way. It is often annoying to have to get rid of items with low durability and for higher end items to be left with no way to repair them and losing them, with the only way to really get back what you used being a very limited and small durability deconstruction staff, only possible to craft in the ruins.

A few things that respawn but don't respawn enough I noticed are grass and berry bushes. Trees respawn a lot, but these two resources don't respawn anywhere near enough and you end up with very little of that resource available. For someone more experienced in an unmanaged world, grass can become more valuable than gold.

The way you implemented Volt Goat respawn mechanic is great although it shouldn't necessarily be the player's job to maintain herds. If up to 2 or 3 herds of goats and beefalo could respawn on their own if there's less than that in the world or in specific biomes (desert and savanna) that would be fantastic. Means if those herds die out new players aren't left with thinking that they just are extinct forever. I also end up never tracking suspicious dirt piles, as fun as it is to do, because of the dangerous creatures it can spawn randomly that I can't deal with on my own. Maybe if much like with goats you tracked a creature in a specific biome, you would have guaranteed chance to get that creature there, it would be useful. For example Beefalo in Savanna, Varg in Forest, Goats in Desert (always in desert, no matter what season or weather condition), Koalefant in Grass biome and Ewecus in... Mosaic?

Speaking of chances to find things, there was previously mention of being able to find the Tentapillar for the Atrium easier. The initial suggestion was for having an item, but I suggested a method which I think is a bit more nuanced for this. You could take this same approach for a number of biomes that have nothing really to them as paths to finding essential or useful content for progression in conjunction with pieces of progression that really aren't that intuitive right now. Like for example the somewhat obscure clockwork statue pieces? Just throwing it out there.

All these changes would be massive QOL additions in my opinion. I hope you consider all of them in some way.

I think someone needs to remind you Don't Starve is the "uncompromising survival game" 

And most of these suggestions would worsen the game, not improve it. Not only from like a reason to play the game stand point, but also from a stability standpoint. I've played several worlds that reach day 1000. Things can slow down bad once you start amassing enough things. You're suggesting a unprecedented power-creep.

If you want more pig houses, kill the pigs as werepigs. Trees are beyond easy to mass farm, and rocks have many ways too. You can gave dozens of pigs in the matter of a season or two.

Getting gold from the pig king isn't an issue. I've never not had a word where I'm not having multiple chests filled with gold. Trade the pig king eggs, go to the ruins, collect event trinkets, rummage tumbleweeds. Play the game.

Need more Moles? I'm not sure why or how you ended up short, but take to the caves, after a few earthquakes you'll be swimming in extra Moles.

Sure I've always wanted more reeds and cactus, but that's up to world Gen, and there are settings to change those anyways. I enjoy some RNG within the world.

Doing a hunt for Volt goats isn't bad at all. I've managed to get multiple new herds in a single spring. If hunt surprises scare you.. honestly they should. It gives you a new mini goal to overcome. It's actually rather exciting. (Maybe hunt surprises can be separated much like they just divided an option for elemental hound waves)

 

Honestly overall this suggestion isn't a game improvement thread, but more of a you need to improve at the game thread. Sorry if that sounds rough, that's just my take from this. If you mess up killing off all your beefalo, it wouldn't be the worse thing to start over on a new world. This very much is a game designed to have the player restart, a lot. That's kind of been this game series design from the beginning. You literally can't even unlock other characters in the solo version of the game without restarting.

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Now something I can get behind would be a Weapon called like The Lucky Dagger, or a Lucky Rabbit Foot Amulet, and these items can help increase drop rate chances.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Catcoon Dens also since they tend to disappear with time, never to be seen again

since 'year of the tiger' they have a respawn mechanic

[Captain_Rage]

Thanks! I didn't know. I need to catch up with the latest update (and bring back the black crafting icon, pleeease).

[ZombieDupe]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

I think someone needs to remind you Don't Starve is the "uncompromising survival game" 

And most of these suggestions would worsen the game, not improve it. Not only from like a reason to play the game stand point, but also from a stability standpoint. I've played several worlds that reach day 1000. Things can slow down bad once you start amassing enough things. You're suggesting a unprecedented power-creep.

I don't see how, you would have to elaborate on that. All of the things being respawned would have checks in place for the amount of these resources that are in the world already based on the world settings (few, less, default, more, lots etc) and these few things are pretty much the only things that are actually what cannot be replenished easily most of the time. You don't see anyone complaining that there are hundreds of trees in your world that have appropriate constant respawn mechanics, or do you suggest that should also be removed and you should always have pinecones lying around to manage and replenish forests? Item deletion for things like rot already is something Klei needs to also address as it can be done, they just haven't done anything about it for some reason.

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

If you want more pig houses, kill the pigs as werepigs. Trees are beyond easy to mass farm, and rocks have many ways too. You can gave dozens of pigs in the matter of a season or two.

I do exactly that, but tell that to all the other players out there who play on public servers, they usually don't care.

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

Getting gold from the pig king isn't an issue. I've never not had a word where I'm not having multiple chests filled with gold. Trade the pig king eggs, go to the ruins, collect event trinkets, rummage tumbleweeds. Play the game.

Pig king is good enough for me who is good enough at the game to be barely affected, though it can seem unfair that I have no gold boulders to mine but every other boulder type respawns, like come on. However new players especially don't know about any of this and you shouldn't expect that they will or should. How is it fair that gold at first is plentiful around the world in multiple places but then new players joining older worlds are left with nothing to craft research stations and anything else that requires gold themselves?

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

Need more Moles? I'm not sure why or how you ended up short, but take to the caves, after a few earthquakes you'll be swimming in extra Moles.

I don't. I clarified what I meant by this in an earlier post.

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

Sure I've always wanted more reeds and cactus, but that's up to world Gen, and there are settings to change those anyways. I enjoy some RNG within the world.

The point is to respawn them when they get destroyed, especially since...

On 4/4/2022 at 11:00 AM, Prinha said:

If it ever happened, it would completly block all the content gated behind flower salad. While I don't think that this happens often, a way to renew them would still be cool.

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to just code in a few lines of code to throw in a check to make sure some cactus and reeds respawn after a while if they were removed from the world. The point is that they can very easily be griefed. Be glad no griefer has yet figured out that these two resources being burned from the world will create a pretty big issue.

On 4/4/2022 at 1:03 PM, Bones Junior said:

Honestly overall this suggestion isn't a game improvement thread, but more of a you need to improve at the game thread. Sorry if that sounds rough, that's just my take from this. If you mess up killing off all your beefalo, it wouldn't be the worse thing to start over on a new world. This very much is a game designed to have the player restart, a lot. That's kind of been this game series design from the beginning. You literally can't even unlock other characters in the solo version of the game without restarting.

####################

Now something I can get behind would be a Weapon called like The Lucky Dagger, or a Lucky Rabbit Foot Amulet, and these items can help increase drop rate chances.

Sounds like you're the one who's pretty new here. Could bet I have way more hours into the game, so you can trust I know what I'm talking about here.

[jan Mele]

21 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Sounds like you're the one who's pretty new here. Could bet I have way more hours into the game, so you can trust I know what I'm talking about here.

Funny thing to someone who can't get gold from sources other than boulders