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Better incentive to join in during other seasons...


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This mostly applies to public/endless servers that has been going on for a while where somebody wants to join but gets discouraged because its currently spring/summer/winter.

I think the issue here is that the starting resources the we get provided doesn't give us enough time for us to "stabilize" before succumbing to the elements. For example the straw hat we get in spring isn't going to do jack against pouring rain before you die to freezing/sanity in the time after you join, or the rabbit earmuffs you get in winter barely doesn't give enough time before you have to burn your next tree. To add on, people in public servers generally don't want to send supplies to spawn and babysit them for the first day or so before they can stabilize.

To that I say buff the starting items for late joiners:

  • winter: winter hat instead of rabbit earmuffs and spawn in at 60 degree body temp
  • spring/summer: umbrella instead of a straw hat (and maybe move endo fires to scienceless so you can at least cool down right off the bat in summer, also in summer spawn in at 10 degree body temp) 

If not this suggestion at least give players a torch when they spawn during/close to nighttime so they can leave spawn and explore instead of waiting the night out.

So do people agree to this or you think that will make things "too easy" and undercuts the challenge of starting in spring/summer/winter?

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I actually played as Wanda to test those “starting resources” Why Wanda? Because as long as she’s taking Damage over time her healing clocks won’t work- And I can tell you that as long as you know what your doing… those starting resources will get you by just fine.

If your the type of player who relies upon X item or Y craft to get you by (Insert Thermal Stone Meta here..) then No your just going to die miserably.

But if you know:

Spoiler

A Straw Hat+ Pretty Parasol+ standing under a tree prevents Summer Heat or that Rabbit Earmuffs actually do keep you warm enough to get a better hat or thermal stone, then these items are fine.

I’ve actually joined worlds locked to permanent 24/7 Summer/Winter and been able to survive just fine in them because I knew what to rush getting and where to look for it.

These items are fine: any buffs or better items & it’s direct hand holding in a game that promised no hand holding.

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26 minutes ago, Wurtstool said:

winter: winter hat instead of rabbit earmuffs

If someone can't survive with rabbit earmuffs then they won't survive with a winter hat. It's barely better. 

26 minutes ago, Wurtstool said:

spring/summer: umbrella instead of a straw hat (and maybe move endo fires to scienceless so you can at least cool down right off the bat in summer

You can cool down right off the bat. Go into a sinkhole, run around a tree with a whirly fan while you're wearing your straw hat, or eat cold things if you're able to find them (which you probably aren't). Cooling down would be harder if you had an umbrella occupying your hand slot and needed to run around finding nitre.

The only thing that I think should happen with the starting inventory is the amount of flint should be changed from 1 to 2. 1 flint isn't very useful, you need 2 to make a pickaxe to be able to start getting more flint easily. 

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38 minutes ago, Wurtstool said:

So do people agree to this or you think that will make things "too easy" and undercuts the challenge of starting in spring/summer/winter?

Make torches for winter, parasol for spring, find open cave for summer

Don't waste torches during the night, it's not a guarantee you'll get more grass or twigs anytime soon, so use trees for light

Stay under a tree that is near a flammable object when your wetness is high an put that object on fire, if you can't find them then go for a campfire under a tree. Juggle the surface and the cave when out of parasol

There is almost always one cave entrance near spawn portal and by the time it's summer the chance for it to be open is quite high, if it isn't then ask for base location and just don't waste time on the surface before finding the base or a cave because there will be almost nothing worthwhile for your survival

Drop your flint far from a nearby bird and go scare them away for a chance to get a second flint to rush 5 gold. Or one as Wicker. If there isn't any gold on the surface make an axe and find pig king

Play on a world with everything to less and surface gold sources, besides pig king, to none to simulate a public world and then choose your starting season, disable berries and carrots for winter and just the berries for summer

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When I do play on pubs I usually don't join passed day ~3, and its not for want of starting items.  Its usually because I'm playing a pub to try a more narrow strategy and don't want to get attached to the world / distracted by other things.  Most of my play is solo, or with a small group of friends who share the world only when we're all online so I'm never long out of a world.  I'm also pretty used to constant communication and team work.

Maybe I should give it a shot though - try out starting later with the bonus items and no specific goal - just support what other players are doing.  Might be fun.

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Why do you need incentive? If the people are uncomfortable joining during a certain season, they should be using it as a learning opportunity. It's easier than ever for someone to find their niche with official starting items. This is something we all had to learn at some point, especially those of us who played adventure mode on the single player experience before together was a thing (which also helped me find my love for lights out worlds).

 

Sweaper pretty much covered the basics above. You got grass and twigs? You got all you need for a good while.

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Ok, what I'm getting at from this thread is that almost everyone is against the idea of having better starting items for winter/spring/summer seasons. It makes sense cause people want to stick to the idea of this games nature to be "no compromise" and that you have to learn the mechanics to survive going into a season with basically nothing (that's whole other can of worms that is discussed to death).

The point I'm trying to get across is that I'm not advocating for an easier experience, I'm trying to find a solution the the problem of why people don't join worlds that are past a certain point and why pubic server die off so easily after winter. Of course the solution I presented at the start of the thread is not the way to handle it, so I'm asking people "if" there a way to incentivize late joiners in pubic servers or public endless servers. 

As a pub player myself nothing is more disheartening than joining a 35 day world that is basically abandoned and forgotten about, or an endless pub where it can go weeks irl without the in game days move a single day forward. I'll be a miracle if a pub makes it to FW or CC.

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4 hours ago, Wurtstool said:

~I'm trying to find a solution the the problem of why people don't join worlds that are past a certain point and why pubic server die off so easily after winter.~

So...
I think a lot of this is actually perception. People less familiar with the game feeling apprehension toward seasons they have less experience with, people more familiar knowing that servers die after Autumn and not bothering, neither likely wanting to play alone if they're looking at public servers in the first place...vicious cycle.

Also everything Shosuko said.
Fresh worlds are appealing for a lot of reasons.

 

Maybe actually starting some servers at seasons besides Autumn would help people get more used to the idea of them? Like...giving one of the official servers a random starting season setting.

IDK, just throwing it out there.

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8 hours ago, Wurtstool said:

The point I'm trying to get across is that I'm not advocating for an easier experience, I'm trying to find a solution the the problem of why people don't join worlds that are past a certain point and why pubic server die off so easily after winter.

People naturally leave mid winter because it limits what they are able to do to the point of some being unable to leave their base for longer than a day even when wearing every winter gear you can give them. If you somehow can get rid of their fear of exploring the world outside of autumn you'll be half way there to a healthy server past autumn. A way to accomplish that, besides watching someone do it, is forcing them in these specific situations and let them figure how to survive until they can survive an entire season consistently, but since the game won't force anything on the player they can just go the easy route and not join a server outside of autumn instead of joining one, dying due to lack of experience, feeling they wasted their time and learning to not repeat this.

8 hours ago, Wurtstool said:

I'll be a miracle if a pub makes it to FW or CC.

You'll need to make it happen yourself in a public server, either get in contact with players interested in that or get good enough to rush them alone.

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Naaah. Starting items are epic. 

14 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only thing that I think should happen with the starting inventory is the amount of flint should be changed from 1 to 2. 1 flint isn't very useful, you need 2 to make a pickaxe to be able to start getting more flint easily. 

3 rather. I know that cool kids make pickaxe and then get extra flint from rocks, but I don't think people should be punished for making an axe first. 

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Recently I joined game when I had some late autumn gear (tam o shanter), had no precrafted endo fire, was middle of nowhere and it was summer. That little whirly fan was actually enough to let me to the base and in base to properly cool down.

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On 1/8/2022 at 7:19 AM, Gi-Go said:

Naaah. Starting items are epic. 

3 rather. I know that cool kids make pickaxe and then get extra flint from rocks, but I don't think people should be punished for making an axe first. 

When you join a game world if you are new to that world birds will spawn near you that will drop flint, doesn’t matter how long the world has been active: as long as your just now joining, then just like the free gear you get for joining mid-season, birds will actually drop flint for you around the florid Postern, if you LEAVE too far away from this area, then you will forfeit this special joining bonus- but Klei added that in ages ago to prevent jerks in Public worlds from snatching up all the Flint/Grass near the Postern leaving you for dead.

Its been in the game for years now actually. I think if we got MORE free stuff the game may as well just play itself for you.

But: That’s my opinion & not everyone’s going to agree with it.

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On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Wurtstool said:

winter hat instead of rabbit earmuffs

 

On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Wurtstool said:

umbrella instead of a straw hat

1. Why should players who joined in other seasons (autumn and winter respectively, especially in late autumn/winter) be at disadvantage by comparison? And they will be, because pig skin is likely to be nonexistent already, as well as beefalo be extinct. People are actually working to farm pig skin (and save, if possible) and silk/beefalo wool to make those items and not die, and you propose to give these to beginners right from the gate? I don't want to look rude, but why not give eyebrella, beefalo hat or thermal stone + recipe and materials for endothermic fire/firepit at this point? Yes, rabbit earmuffs are bad, but that is exactly why one should seek other items.

Umbrella from the start would also basically solve rain problem intirely, winter hat has decent insulation + 2 sanity per minute, which can look weak, but it greatly increases time before one goes insane.

2. Problem of transition between seasons. If such player joins shortly before season change, they won't get items you propose they need, so shoud they get 2 sets of items if joined in "late X"?

On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Wurtstool said:

at least give players a torch when they spawn during/close to nighttime so they can leave spawn and explore instead of waiting the night out

But they have enough twigs and grass to craft one, and before day 11 nights are very short anyway, and remaining twigs are enough to craft pickaxe and axe. Why would anyone need more than that among starting items?

On 1/8/2022 at 1:38 AM, Wurtstool said:

also in summer spawn in at 10 degree body temp

That one could help and wouldn't hurt to have, but realistically one would go to 63-70+ degrees pretty quickly, especially in the middle of summer.

---------------

I joined public servers at 19+ days (including time in the middle of winter and early spring), and in vast majority of cases survived fine (as Warly and Wormwood) without any help from others. I knew day count and length of season (as well as settings), I new % of drop rate of various items, pig skin/beefalo/boss loot general availability on pubs, and therefore chose my strategy accordingly.

I died only when I was unable to find second flint while joined in the middle of winter, and if player started with 2 (or better 3) flints it could improve experience much more. Not because finding second flint is hard, but because it's highly inconsistent to rely on birds drop rate (especially if I don't want to sit among picked grass tufts and saplings waiting for flint in starting biomes), as well as boring running scienceless unable to even craft axe in hope for second flint. As for the starting items, I often abandoned my rabbit earmuffs at around 50% of durability in favor of thermal stone/puffy vest, crafted rain hat with starting straw hat and rushed caves/thermal stone + endothermic fire/floral shirt + endothermic fire, and starting items were more than enough (although for summer I would prefer to start with straw hat instead of pretty parasol, so at night one could run with torch and some kind of insulation).

If player wants to join any time, my advice is to learn more than one way to counter weather and to practice in private world at least a little bit in survival. I don't know about other people, but I wouldn't have fun playing with others if I was dead weight and needed to be provided with resources, wasted someone's time to go to portal, etc. Also it was fun experience for me to create basically "nothing world" with only indestructable (ponds, tumbleweed spawners, etc.), a little bit of trees, mushtrees, lightbulbs and normal amount of spiders present and trying to survive and fight bosses. I also see bringing back pigs and goats from extinction on bubs as fun challenge, it's like one of the DS Adventure Mode chapters.

Speaking of which: DST could use Adventure Mode with caves, RoG, AnR and RoT content included there, it was great tool of learning for me when I was relatively new to the game (had difficulties surviving first winter, starved, etc.), I find it fun even now, but the fact that in DS there won't be any players joining, no cave content and very few RoG features saddens me; corresponding mod for DST doesn't have caves content and isn't designed with AnR and RoT in mind, which is also sad.

As for insentive to join in harsh seasons... If one wants to play, shouldn't it be enough? It's only natural that when one joins in hard time, they, well... have harder time? But there are a lot of ways to counter weather in DST, so I don't see at as a problem myself.

I like suggestion of some pubs starting in other than autumn season, in fact, I would prefer if there was more than one of such with non-default starting season. I also think some already existing, underwhelming, but very available items could fill the gap between straw hat and rain hat/umbrella in spring: if breezy vest gave at least 50% of rain protection (now it's 20%), one could stand under the tree (30%) with straw hat (20%) and breezy vest (50%) for complete rain protection to dry off, or use breezy vest (50%) + rain hat (70%) for the same purpose in absence of trees, as well as use another combination at sea in waterlogged biome (canopy (35%), breezy vest (50%) and straw hat/torch (20%) near firepit). Same rain protection (50%) would be nice for puffy vest (currently it has 0%).

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

birds will actually drop flint for you around the florid Postern

423759017_startingitems.jpg.65a71c9741d4302d74202d46fd9dfb72.jpg

World younger than 3 days means I wont get any flint from birds, and when I survive longer than 2 days I won't get more flint from birds period. On top of that, 3.5% and 2.5% is just too low to seriously consider, and second flint is crucial thing, there should be a way to get it consistently. Before it I can't say play session even started.

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

to prevent jerks in Public worlds from snatching up all the Flint/Grass

Actually it's not jerks, it's moleworms who steal flint. As for grass, I can't blame people who pick 10-20 starting grass and twings in starter biome, since they need it to start their game. But since a lot of people join public worlds in the same area, they quickly deplete those 40-60 grass and twigs in starter biomes. This is also why I hate it when caves on pubs have twiggy trees (I don't remember if lack of grass tufts in caves is the thing, if yes, than I'm glad I didn't encounter that often enough to remember).

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As an aside, Willow is insanely good at coping with old servers outside of autumn and its so much fun being forced to actually focus on surviving instead of frolicking around in the land of plenty that is solo/new worlds. That alone is incentive enough for me to join servers outside of autumn. Definitely recommend trying her out in situations like that. 

:willow:

Spoiler

Standing on top of burning trees can warm u up in winter and dry u off in spring,

Reduced damage from and slower overheating covers summer with ease, 

Bernie! Helps with insanity from either wetness or sheltering in the caves. Can also be held for some insulation when u want to cover more ground between warming up (but i tend to save durability for big bernie),

And her lighter means she can survive nights (and caves) even if all the grass and saplings for miles around the portal are picked. And she can cook early stuff on it like mushrooms and meat. 

 

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