Wolfgang Feedback

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, csc_unit said:

Yes yes it doesnt really matter for Dst. Even if Wolfy was 4 times stronger than Wilson, I would still do my own thing. In competitive games, the balance is more important. Taking CoD as example again, you just can't play succesfully with a B tiers weapon without getting dunk on by players with S tier guns. What do you do, you take that pesky S tier weapon and now every single players play the same gun while there is a total of 45 to play with. Personally, I find it sad, hence why I think balancing a game is super duper important.

I don't want to bash Wolfgang players per say. Those who like Wolfy for more than just him being the best at killing stuff are gonna stick with him even if he loses the speedbuff. Those who like him because he's the best, well they are gonna skip to the next best thing and no hard feeling; just like when the gun meta changes in CoD.

If a someone using a B-tier weapon can't beat someone with S-tier weapon in a shooter then that's a failure of game design having more of a chance to win is one thing but being unable is another Wolfgang both pre and post rework falls into the latter yes he'll have a head start but the game offers various methods to outpace him as time goes on.

That being said killing stuff is his only identity in terms of gameplay unless your talking about liking him for flavor text personally I don't really think he needs his speed buff back but I can somewhat understand why many don't like his working out mechanic I think it comes down to feel. 

[Catchee]

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

I think they specifically want to move away from wolf having an incentive to raid the server’s fridge though.

rip icebox raid boss, you will be missed. 

 

Spoiler

Was truly a test of skill, having to avoid the monster meat in the icebox and put it into the crockpot along with filler ingredients so you don't get hurt, some of the new wolfgangs never made it past this. so sad it's being removed.

 

[Notecja]

2 minutes ago, CatchySong said:

rip icebox raid boss, you will be missed. 

You can still raid fridge. Lets say... To use meatballs to heal sanity. C:

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Welcome to another "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG, KLEI CHANGE OR WE'LL RIOT!"

I suggest you to grab some popcorns and to not take seriously many of these threads. It's for the better

 

True as this is sitting back isn't the best stance with a dev team who listens to feedback as much as Kiel not that anyone should take this too seriously I'm mostly just posting because I'm bored.

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

It incentivizes tanking because tanking is much more appealing now that the marble suit is much better as Wolfgang. This is basic line of reasoning.

 
Also, please try to be more respectful and mature in your posts, I understand you are very, very passionate when it comes to Wolfgang’s speed, but claiming someone who supports the removal of Wolfgang’s speed has “bs arrogant balance” is crossing the line

One second, one second. How it incentivizes tanking o.O ?

You have now marble suit without speed penalty, so it's better to kite = saving resources and healing for youself, in case you do big mistakes. Why you should tank, if you can kite it now? It's like, i can tank now with football helmets. It's not a basic line of reasoning at all

59 minutes ago, csc_unit said:

Well, maybe WOlfgang lost a player, but he earned me as one with this update. I dig the whole getting buff in the gym thing.

See like, and this isn't directed toward you especially, its also quite an opinionated claim so feel free to disagree, but it seems to me that a lot of Wolfgang players (not all) are the type of gamers that seek the best thing in a game and stick with it; the ones that play the same 3 best meta guns in Call of Duty and never touch the rest for example.

Still an opinion, but there should be more to a choice of character in a game like Dst. Its a coop game, no MLG here.

 

Same feelings, not quite in all of what you described, but this rework capture me too as potential Wolfgang player   

I never played him because he was cheap and boooorinngg.

[csc_unit]

To get buff ya need to workout and don't skip the leg day. It's tedious but the reward is big. Get up in the morining, jam stuff in the crockpot, do a couple rep beside it, go back to the crockpot eat some good ol'meatball prots, do some more rep and you're ready to tackle the day and anytnhing that stand in front of you.

"Wilson" - Look at him eating such unrefined food and spending so much time at the gym erhh "eyeroll"

"Wicker" - At least the man is able to help me carry those darn giant potatoes.

 

Cringe? ye whatever lol

 

[Mike23Ua]

I honestly want someone who mains Wolfgang and more importantly continues to Main him after his rework to very simply explain how the two versions compare.

For example: Is cramming a slow eating animation Meatball in your face every few seconds to stay at top speed and might REALLY better then lifting a Gembell for roughly the same time and staying Mighty for long periods of time?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

30 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Is cramming a slow eating animation Meatball in your face every few seconds to stay at top speed

aswell as i complained about people lying in favour of reverting speed boost i would compain if people keep saying lies to force the new mechanic into the game without useful feedback

nobody used meatballs every few seconds to top off speed, honey and potatoes have short animation and can be easily mass produced

you play on console so you cant test the new wolfgang sadly, i beg you, and everybody, to dont spread miss information for once. You can share your opinion but this and other user's comments filled with lies, exagerations or details omited just to be right in an internet fight is sad and doesnt bring anything useful for klei if we really wanna improve wolfgang and not just ruin him, let it forgoten but winning an argument

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

aswell as i complained about people lying in favour of reverting speed boost i would compain if people keep saying lies to force the new mechanic into the game without useful feedback

nobody used meatballs every few seconds to top off speed, honey and potatoes have short animation and can be easily mass produced

you play on console so you cant test the new wolfgang sadly, i beg you, and everybody, to dont spread miss information for once. You can share your opinion but this and other user's comments filled with lies, exagerations or details omited just to be right in an internet fight is sad and doesnt bring anything useful for klei if we really wanna improve wolfgang and not just ruin him, let it forgoten but winning an argument

I’m only going by what I see casual Wolfgang players doing: and that’s creating and eating Meatballs.

So is the animations of creating and eating Meatballs really that much better then lifting the Dumbells?

I think Dumbell lifting needs to become a walking perk, like .. he just passively throws it into the air and catches it as he is walking as long as it’s equipped in his hand slot. If he can’t do this on foot.. then At least let him do it while on a Beefalo.

If the Animations we’re as short as Wendy whispering into her flower commands for Abigail I doubt many people would have a problem with it.. but apparently that’s not the case.

[Dextops]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So is the animations of creating and eating Meatballs really that much better then lifting the Dumbells?

well just eat foods that have short eating animations blaming the player not the character is not a good thing to do

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

I'm gonna say it, I don't care that they took away your speed boost.

Fr tho I disagree partly with op. I think adding another hunger mechanic would be a mistake, because hehe Wolfgang kill fridge. I think it would be cool if mining, chopping, hammering ect increased the mightiness meter. This would mean that you can actually progress while getting mighty, and the gym would be a faster alternative (also dumbbells should be buffed). This also discourages the meathead Wolfgang mentally of only fighting bosses and nothing else.

[Cloakingsumo198]

10 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

I'm gonna say it, I don't care that they took away your speed boost.

Fr tho I disagree partly with op. I think adding another hunger mechanic would be a mistake, because hehe Wolfgang kill fridge. I think it would be cool if mining, chopping, hammering ect increased the mightiness meter. This would mean that you can actually progress while getting mighty, and the gym would be a faster alternative (also dumbbells should be buffed). This also discourages the meathead Wolfgang mentally of only fighting bosses and nothing else.

Wolfgang's speed boost helped give him that bull dozer feel you would run into a biome kill everything you felt like killing, grab your resources, and then bail cause you're on your hunger timer and wanna make the most of the resources and time you have.  If his speed boost is gone while mighty make it so he can use his tools better but break them faster as well so he is still just as fast somewhere else.  Also physical labour should increase his might meter look at any physical labourer and see just how strong they are from just working.  As it is they just slowed the Wolfgang gameplay cycle

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Wolfgang's speed boost helped give him that bull dozer feel you would run into a biome kill everything you felt like killing, grab your resources, and then bail cause you're on your hunger timer and wanna make the most of the resources and time you have.  If his speed boost is gone while mighty make it so he can use his tools better but break them faster as well so he is still just as fast somewhere else.  Also physical labour should increase his might meter look at any physical labourer and see just how strong they are from just working.  As it is they just slowed the Wolfgang gameplay cycle

Lol that was a play on the "I don't care that you broke your elbow" If they keep with the no speed thing they should add some compensation

[Cloakingsumo198]

Just now, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Lol that was a play on the "I don't care that you broke your elbow" If they keep with the no speed thing they should add some compensation

Ha I realized, but I do feel people who are saying this rework is fine have never played Wolfgang, or understood his gameplay cycle.  This is mostly the same way he plays just achieved in a slower way and more consistent in only damage.  He hasn't been fixed just made more complicated without any real benefit

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Ha I realized, but I do feel people who are saying this rework is fine have never played Wolfgang, or understood his gameplay cycle.  This is mostly the same way he plays just achieved in a slower way and more consistent in only damage.  He hasn't been fixed just made more complicated without any real benefit

This is interesting, because for me I find him being more complicated more intriguing. I had never wanted to play Wolfgang before, but that he has a new stat to manage he sounds more interesting to me. I especially like the no downside to piggyback and marble suit, which to me is more fun then a straight up speed boost. But this is all opinion

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

New stat to manage he sounds more interesting to me. I especially like the no downside to piggyback and marble suit, which to me is more fun then a straight up speed boost. But this is all opinion

I'm sorry to say but is really not that different to how he used to be. The way his new stat is managed could be interesting with tweaks to it, it shouldn't just be make weight lift weight there could be more nuance to make it less focused on the weight only, but the carrying heavy stuff better was always something people with built in speed boosts could do a charged wx will be faster in marble armor than wolf although him achieving that is harder yes.

[Vultureneck]

I think the biggest problem with the speed boost was that it's not very thematic with a strong man. 

Here are my thoughts on the current status of the Wolfgang rework 

- The mini-game to increase mightiness is fine, thematic even 

- With a full belly mightiness only lasts 6 1/2 minutes, this isn't enough time for some of the longer fights. stopping to work out in middle of a boss fight is very tedious and there should be a way to avoid this, possible suggestions are:

-There should be a threshold of belly where mightiness doesn't decrease at all, while Wolfgang is less than 20 hunger away from full seems like a decent threshold for this. 

- equipping piggyback or marble armor should count as carrying a "heavy" item, stopping mightiness from dropping. There should be one or two more items classified as "heavy" so you're not stuck with just these two.

 

As it is now stopping for around 13 reps of the HIGHEST tier of weight to max out the mighty meter after less than a day of fighting is an absolute joke. The character who was revered as the best fighter in the game can't fight toadstool, can't fight Ancient fuel weaver, can't fight crabking, bee queen, etc., because he has to dip out of the fight entirely.

 

These aren't as important but a couple other thoughts

- the durability for a dumbbell feels very small, kinda tedious to make them that often

- throwing dumbbells actually is a lot of fun. If they increased the damage of the gembell to a little over 100 damage so it could spiders when it landed I think that it would be incredibly satisfying to use a purple gem just to throw them at things.

 

I see some potential in this rework, but as it stands now it feels like Wolfgang is too tedious to play.

 

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

8 minutes ago, Vultureneck said:

I see some potential in this rework, but as it stands now it feels like Wolfgang is too tedious to play.

 

 

Old Wolfgang was very on the move, very fast paced to get things done. As he was on more of a timer than anyone else before people started calling him dead weight.  When he does too well people call for a nerf, when he does poorly people call him boring.

The new changes slow him down considerably without any real benefits or new interesting abilities the speed boost loss slows his gameplay down so does having to constantly lift a dumbbell or returning to your workout machine.

If his mightiness meter was tied to more things people do naturally like fighting/mining/chopping/eating it would be more in line with his original gameplay loop without adding this tedious weights for no real reason they are good to get your mighty up while idle or in a rush but ultimately shouldn't be your only option

[Theminingdwarf]

9 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Old Wolfgang was very on the move, very fast paced to get things done. As he was on more of a timer than anyone else before people started calling him dead weight.  When he does too well people call for a nerf, when he does poorly people call him boring.

The new changes slow him down considerably without any real benefits or new interesting abilities the speed boost loss slows his gameplay down so does having to constantly lift a dumbbell or returning to your workout machine.

If his mightiness meter was tied to more things people do naturally like fighting/mining/chopping/eating it would be more in line with his original gameplay loop without adding this tedious weights for no real reason they are good to get your mighty up while idle or in a rush but ultimately shouldn't be your only option

This is very well put, in fact, here's an idea for Klei that wouldn't take much to implement, make it so that carrying any heavy things, like piggyback, marble suit, etc. cause your mightiness to slow or even stop entirely. It wouldn't be the general speed boost myself and a bunch of other players want but it would make for less standing around and would give a reason to use those items when better alternatives exist.

[Cookie95]

16 hours ago, csc_unit said:

...But, idk should Klei really listens to those who want the game to have overpowered stuff?

They did with the whole Wendy outrage, they basically removed the one downside Wendy had with the petal buff (now instead of less she deals MORE damage than default, not even counting the damage Abigail deals). Still, old Wolfgang while being strong was not ridiculously OP like people who haven't really played him seem to think. If he was an easy mode character like Wendy or Wigfrid you would see him way more in public servers, but truth is skill and good planning are required for him to really shine. The rework ruins his early game and removes him from the speedruning and ruins rushing meta. What does he have left? He's not the fastest, doesn't deal the most damage per hit, isn't the best at tanking, doesn't have the most health... Now even his kiting ability has been nerfed.

I understand some people like the new Wolf more. But to me it just looks like he was changed to suit a more casual playstyle (now there is nothing wrong with that sort of playstyle, I myself sometimes feel like building and decorating a megabase or just being more chill in general). Thing is there are already so many characters better suited for this. I don't understand why Klei is willing to please only that part of the playerbase, there are still people who enjoy a faster game and Wolf was perfect for that.

[Toroic]

@Vultureneck your math on working out is way, way off.  Max gym can fill a day of mightiness in about 5 reps because you get 6.67 mightiness per rep, which is significantly less than 13 and shouldn’t take more than about 5 seconds per 6.5 minutes of playtime assuming you don’t use a gembell.

For boss fights it’s definitely viable to sneak in gembell lifts during the time you used to have to eat or watch your damage take a nosedive.

[Cloakingsumo198]

10 minutes ago, Toros said:

@Vultureneck your math on working out is way, way off.  Max gym can fill a day of mightiness in about 5 reps because you get 6.67 mightiness per rep, which is significantly less than 13 and shouldn’t take more than about 5 seconds per 6.5 minutes of playtime assuming you don’t use a gembell.

For boss fights it’s definitely viable to sneak in gembell lifts during the time you used to have to eat or watch your damage take a nosedive.

But eating a berry took like half a second and you'd do so after dodging.

[Ohan]

3 hours ago, Toros said:

Max gym

Maxwell is getting a gym now too?! 

2 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

But eating a berry took like half a second and you'd do so after dodging.

How many berries do u need to stay at 100% mightiness all the time in order to get the actual full x2 during lets say dfly fight VS how long do u have to dumbell to stay mighty during the fight.

How long did it take to gather all those berries VS how long did it take to gather materials for 1 gembell that can be used for numerous fights.

Idk i think the new system has a lot of value and only has to be maintained with a few seconds of gembell every several minutes for constant x2 dmg

It can be trickier to find the opportunity to dumbell during a fight though. Well, not in the dfly example but still

[Cloakingsumo198]

16 minutes ago, Ohan said:

It can be trickier to find the opportunity to dumbell during a fight though. Well, not in the dfly example but still

Yeah just this otherwise new wolf is more consistent, just busting people's meatballs as i lament over wolfgang

[Toroic]

2 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

But eating a berry took like half a second and you'd do so after dodging.

This is true, but how many fights last more than 6.5 minutes and don’t have natural breaks to get some gembell work in?