Lots of Cold Geysers for Rime!

[ZombieDupe]

So it looks like the geyser generation has been screwed up yet again, as the cool slush geysers aren't to be found guaranteed on Spaced Out's classic version Rime and instead we have 2 Cool Steam Vents... There are zero actual frozen biomes despite the entire thing being a giant block of ice and that's probably part of the problem of why the guaranteed versions of these geysers aren't even part of the world generation. The whole point of Rime is to deal with cold, but you've repeated the same mistake that the base game had, (plus no actual frost biomes for some reason):

* Cold areas mean little to nothing because there is no frostbite damage

* Cold doesn't mean much when the vast majority of the geysers are hot anyway so you can heat things up and we're back to square one late to end game, taming the same old geysers the same old boring way on every planetoid

 

I can't be the only one who thinks you missed on doing the obvious somehow. I would argue not only should you add lots and lots of frozen biomes with guaranteed slush geysers (maybe even moonlet biomes here and there) but also absolutely add cold variants of some of the most common geysers:

* Chlorine Vent -> Liquid Chlorine Geyser (-35C to -100C)

* Natural Gas Geyser -> Liquid Methane Geyser (-170C)

* Cool Steam Vent -> Liquid Oxygen Geyser (not the same thing, but it would still be interesting replacement in areas) (-190C to -200C)

* Hydrogen Vent -> Liquid Hydrogen Geyser (-255C)

* CO2 Vent -> CO2 Geyser (making sure it always includes this in place of the other perhaps)

 

How cool, different and interesting would it be to play with completely new geysers who's output is focused around cold. Right now there is not a single geyser that is cooler than the CO2 Geyser, which outputs liquid CO2 at around -55C. Like come on, this should be obvious and much more interesting to work with and yet we got same old as usual for no apparent reason. This would not take a whole lot of effort to implement, hardest part would probably be making some new geyser textures.

[crbd115]

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

* Cold areas mean little to nothing because there is no frostbite damage

I do hope something like this gets added

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

* Cool Steam Vent -> Liquid Oxygen Geyser (not the same thing, but it would still be interesting replacement in areas) (-190C to -200C)

* Hydrogen Vent -> Liquid Hydrogen Geyser (-255C)

I don't really agree with these as they are something used as a goal for late game industry. Giving them to the player kind of defeats the point. I do however think that there can be cold gas vents that just aren't liquid since they still have a large cold temp range before they to get to liquid. This means that they still cool the environment and still create problems to solve without just skipping to a late game resource. 

[Gurgel]

Dealing with cold is not really difficult. Just use Tepidizers for heating. Even a 3 dupe crew with power only from hamster wheels can do it. Also, relax.

[Spoonwood]

14 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Like come on, this should be obvious and much more interesting to work with and yet we got same old as usual for no apparent reason.

People were asking for a Rime-like asteroid.  Rime in the base game is not like what you've asked for, and is like the Rime cluster starting asteroid in Spaced Out!  So, that's why they did what they did.  Because of what they had, and because people asked for something similar to Rime, not some other type of asteroid.  I do not see a mistake or misstep on their part, it made for more of a continuation.

Now, since you want a colder asteroid, have you played the 100k mod for the base game?  It's a little more along the lines of what you've asked for.  Geysers do exist, but they can get disabled from generating.  There is no starting water, there is only ice.  No washing hands until water is made, a water source is found, or one uses hand sanitizers.  Early food is finger-licking good!  Steam from cool steam vents often quickly will turn to ice, if you don't mop the water immediately.  Chlorine starts out in solid blocks mostly and so does carbon dioxide.  There exists a constant cold air debuff.  Thus, I think you might have missed turning up the stress level when you mention the game not having frostibte, since with extreme cold, more stress comes.  Duplicants end up with soggy feet constantly since they breath out carbon dioxide that quickly liquifes (and then solidifies).

But, the 100k mod though it has its challenges, also has easier aspects.  There exist basically two gases on the asteroid until heating starts.  Oxygen and hydrogen.  Thus, when one digs down it's much easier, since duplicants won't hyperventilate.  There's no need to worry about nasty chlorine gas leaking everywhere causing irritated skin or lack of breathability.  You can just chuck solid chlorine in some storage bins in a corner behind some tiles and forget about it.  Or dissolve it in space as GrindThisGame did in his 100k run.  No need to spend power on a gas pump to move or get rid of that stuff.  Digging on a 100k asteroid also ends up very simple compared to the base game, because of the lack of chlorine gas.  And getting lead or fossil from the oil biome is even easier than on classic Rime (unless one plays with irregular oil, which makes oil biomes normal temperature).

And the kicker lies in that there's even some liquid oxygen naturally on the 100k asteroid often.  And since it's so cold, making liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, which are necessary for the end game hydrogen rocket, are even easier.  Machines also aren't as likely to overheat, or fixing their heat problem is comparatively simple.  There's not really a possibility of an area getting too hot, because you're dumping metal refinery coolant into it.  Steam turbines aren't so well motivated.  So, no, I don't see why having a cold asteroid with cold geysers would be more interesting. Different, sure.  Interesting because it's different, sure.  Fun to play with for a while?  Sure.  But, more interesting overall?  Well, there's also fewer critters around, if any, with super cold temperatures, and well a lot of people find the critters game in this game appealing.  So, no, I don't see how overall such would be better.

Oh, and why aren't cool slush geysers on the Rime-cluster starting asteroid?  Well, have you ever used a cool slush geyser on Rime?  There are things you can do, but it's not as interesting on Rime as a cool steam vent, since you can do more with the cool steam vent, and I'd guess a lot of players end up with pipes breaking if using a cool slush geyser on Rime.  That said, the tricks I know of for using them is as metal refinery coolant or as coolant for oxygen coming from an electrolyzer system, both of which heat the polluted water making it easier to use, and those tricks work on all asteroids.

[Oxydiser]

Hi.

I need to disagree with Zombie dupe as in 3 seeds out of 5 I have cool slushes on my map and I always find a cold biome. Most of frozen biomes were changed into Radiation biomes where technically you also can find some more vents. And lastly Rime world is cold, rapidly frozen rock. Not necessarily an ocean of frozen water.

Although frostbite debuff is a great idea.

Dear gods from distant Klei, we pray to your temporal tear to implement that in future updates.

Just my little 2 coins.

[ZombieDupe]

16 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I don't really agree with these as they are something used as a goal for late game industry. Giving them to the player kind of defeats the point. I do however think that there can be cold gas vents that just aren't liquid since they still have a large cold temp range before they to get to liquid. This means that they still cool the environment and still create problems to solve without just skipping to a late game resource. 

I don't see why they would be such a big problem. Hydrogen and oxygen are not late game resource, it's just the same abundant resources you get everywhere just cooled down. I think it's fair to have these geysers giving an alternative easier method to get liquid hydrogen and oxygen on one specific planetoid. You would still need to set up the regular cooling system if you wanted it anywhere else around the system or shoot the resource over. Regardless you would need lots of preparation before you can even begin to launch a hydrogen rocket.

The liquid output also poses a pressure threat. Large quantities of liquid oxygen means tons of breathable oxygen if you heat it up, but you have to also modulate the pressure. It's also a balancing act or a choice. Do you or how much oxygen do you contribute to rockets and how much for breathing? I think it would be an interesting mechanic. You can't take use of liquid oxygen or liquid hydrogen without heating them up to gas anyway and deal with pressure issues until you actually research the hydrogen rockets, which will be at least a hundred cycles in by that point.

5 hours ago, Spoonwood said:

People were asking for a Rime-like asteroid.  Rime in the base game is not like what you've asked for, and is like the Rime cluster starting asteroid in Spaced Out!  So, that's why they did what they did.  Because of what they had, and because people asked for something similar to Rime, not some other type of asteroid.  I do not see a mistake or misstep on their part, it made for more of a continuation.

Now, since you want a colder asteroid, have you played the 100k mod for the base game?  It's a little more along the lines of what you've asked for.  Geysers do exist, but they can get disabled from generating.  There is no starting water, there is only ice.  No washing hands until water is made, a water source is found, or one uses hand sanitizers.  Early food is finger-licking good!  Steam from cool steam vents often quickly will turn to ice, if you don't mop the water immediately.  Chlorine starts out in solid blocks mostly and so does carbon dioxide.  There exists a constant cold air debuff.  Thus, I think you might have missed turning up the stress level when you mention the game not having frostibte, since with extreme cold, more stress comes.  Duplicants end up with soggy feet constantly since they breath out carbon dioxide that quickly liquifes (and then solidifies).

But, the 100k mod though it has its challenges, also has easier aspects.  There exist basically two gases on the asteroid until heating starts.  Oxygen and hydrogen.  Thus, when one digs down it's much easier, since duplicants won't hyperventilate.  There's no need to worry about nasty chlorine gas leaking everywhere causing irritated skin or lack of breathability.  You can just chuck solid chlorine in some storage bins in a corner behind some tiles and forget about it.  Or dissolve it in space as GrindThisGame did in his 100k run.  No need to spend power on a gas pump to move or get rid of that stuff.  Digging on a 100k asteroid also ends up very simple compared to the base game, because of the lack of chlorine gas.  And getting lead or fossil from the oil biome is even easier than on classic Rime (unless one plays with irregular oil, which makes oil biomes normal temperature).

And the kicker lies in that there's even some liquid oxygen naturally on the 100k asteroid often.  And since it's so cold, making liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, which are necessary for the end game hydrogen rocket, are even easier.  Machines also aren't as likely to overheat, or fixing their heat problem is comparatively simple.  There's not really a possibility of an area getting too hot, because you're dumping metal refinery coolant into it.  Steam turbines aren't so well motivated.  So, no, I don't see why having a cold asteroid with cold geysers would be more interesting. Different, sure.  Interesting because it's different, sure.  Fun to play with for a while?  Sure.  But, more interesting overall?  Well, there's also fewer critters around, if any, with super cold temperatures, and well a lot of people find the critters game in this game appealing.  So, no, I don't see how overall such would be better.

Oh, and why aren't cool slush geysers on the Rime-cluster starting asteroid?  Well, have you ever used a cool slush geyser on Rime?  There are things you can do, but it's not as interesting on Rime as a cool steam vent, since you can do more with the cool steam vent, and I'd guess a lot of players end up with pipes breaking if using a cool slush geyser on Rime.  That said, the tricks I know of for using them is as metal refinery coolant or as coolant for oxygen coming from an electrolyzer system, both of which heat the polluted water making it easier to use, and those tricks work on all asteroids.

Cool Steam Vent is one of the worst geysers out there, especially on their own since you need to throw power at the problem to get resources out or balance out things in a stupid manner because that 110C output is infuriating temperature when you consider that the tepidizer won't go above 85C (without the use of an exploit) and Steam Turbine won't draw in steam until it's at least 125C, all very frustrating, boring and non-sensical. You could nerf the tepidizers to output the same amount of heat that is the power they draw (960kDtus total), remove heating cap of 85C for it and let steam turbine draw in steam at any temperature, producing minimal amount of power as it converts it to 95C water, which would be steps closer to fixing the annoying building mechanics which I take issue with and make something like a cool steam vent actually fun to tame and a comparable source of water to other better geysers.

I have seen some footage of 100k mod. Let it stay a mod. With it, frostbite can't be a thing because day 1 your colony has liquid CO2, realistically frostbite damage start happening at around -10C temperatures and below. Rime focuses on cool temperatures to start, then even colder outside (with frostbite you would need atmo suits pretty early on and same with heating, which would be fun to work with), but there are no actual frost biomes in this version for some reason and more importantly no actual cold geysers all around meaning that cold is a problem until it isn't, which is a shame because there is no asteroid gameplay style that has ever presented the continuous challenge of cold temperatures and that's disappointing. Why boil down every planetoid to "eventually everything becomes a heat problem"? Aren't presets like this supposed to provide variety and even more thought-provoking challenges? Such an easy fix with the geysers to present a continuous challenging problem for the need of heating the output before you can consume it and yet we have this. I know you can create heat through tepidizers more than you actually put in to run them, though that's still a massive power sink regardless.

5 hours ago, Oxydiser said:

Hi.

I need to disagree with Zombie dupe as in 3 seeds out of 5 I have cool slushes on my map and I always find a cold biome. Most of frozen biomes were changed into Radiation biomes where technically you also can find some more vents. And lastly Rime world is cold, rapidly frozen rock. Not necessarily an ocean of frozen water.

Although frostbite debuff is a great idea.

Dear gods from distant Klei, we pray to your temporal tear to implement that in future updates.

Just my little 2 coins.

They are not guaranteed and for a Rime, a cold planetoid, who's whole thing is cold, freezing temperatures, should just have guaranteed cold geysers and cold problems as it would be more fun to work with and different from anything we have had before. Do you really just want the same old late game? I certainly don't. It gets dull when you do the same thing all over again when there is no need as the solution is just right there, which is having more and new cold geysers!

[DolphinWing]

13 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Rime focuses on cool temperatures to start, then even colder outside (with frostbite you would need atmo suits pretty early on and same with heating, which would be fun to work with), but there are no actual frost biomes in this version for some reason and more importantly no actual cold geysers all around meaning that cold is a problem until it isn't, which is a shame because there is no asteroid gameplay style that has ever presented the continuous challenge of cold temperatures and that's disappointing. Why boil down every planetoid to "eventually everything becomes a heat problem"? Aren't presets like this supposed to provide variety and even more thought-provoking challenges? Such an easy fix with the geysers to present a continuous challenging problem for the need of heating the output before you can consume it and yet we have this. 

Although I like the idea of some new geysers, I guess global warming is inevitable. 

[babba]

1 hour ago, DolphinWing said:

Although I like the idea of some new geysers, I guess global warming is inevitable. 

Would be cool if we had Surface Season`s in the game, nothing better than Blitz Ice and feeling thiiiirsty from

Desert Dessert !

 

I would find Frostbite in the game awesome

If its close to absolute zero, then it would be cool if Dupes have reduced movement speed or totally freeze up

22 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

...

* Cold areas mean little to nothing because there is no frostbite damage

Frozen Dupes

[Lacero]

I think there's a huge demand for solid modded game starts. baator is nice but starts that aren't intentionally "hard" and have great themeing as the OP describes would be very welcome.

I understand we shouldn't expect this to happen before full release.

[Gurgel]

7 hours ago, Lacero said:

I think there's a huge demand for solid modded game starts. baator is nice but starts that aren't intentionally "hard" and have great themeing as the OP describes would be very welcome.
I understand we shouldn't expect this to happen before full release.

I agree. And yes, this makes little sense before the full release. One of the downsides of Klei deciding to also update the base-game.

[cpy]

Well the game is just too easy. I guess after 1000h+ everything is. Then again gives MOAR PAAAAIIIIIN!

[babba]

2 hours ago, cpy said:

Well the game is just too easy. I guess after 1000h+ everything is. Then again gives MOAR PAAAAIIIIIN!

I can never overcome the crash boss I still haven`t built a reactor in the game, altough I`m very excited about reactors since a year. Also the crash boss prevents me from actually testing in survival mode if stacked rockets are currently working, I never make it that far. If ONI ever gets a boss mob, it shall have the name

"Crash Bob Bossmob, Rusty Legs III, beholder of all bug reportz"

Always starting fresh saves, always new crash bosses...So thirsty ! Experiencing 100% repro crashes on totally different PC`s, which don`t even bring up the games crash reporter - Is scary. So sad. MOAR PAAAAIIIIIN!

It would be great if @Ipsquiggle could load the save and locate the crash cause.

 

[Magheat2009]

@babba Were you inactive here for sometime or did I just miss your posts?

[babba]

4 minutes ago, Magheat2009 said:

@babba Were you inactive here for sometime or did I just miss your posts?

I temporary returned from the temporal tear, to bring you Cement Toast Best wishes to you my dear friend

[Lacero]

15 hours ago, Magheat2009 said:

@babba Were you inactive here for sometime or did I just miss your posts?

I don't think anyone could not notice babba's posts

[Spoonwood]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:00 PM, ZombieDupe said:

Cool Steam Vent is one of the worst geysers out there, especially on their own since you need to throw power at the problem to get resources out or balance out things

Power isn't needed to get consistent cool water from a cool steam vent on Rime and a 100k asteroid.  Some people I think cool steam using wheezeworts.  Also, some others use cool steam vents in an entirely power positive manner by heating the steam and then using a steam turbine (the trick often relies on the fact that only one tile needs to get above the minimum temperature threshold for steam for a steam turbine to run).

 

[cpy]

Someone should make cryovolcanos.

Or maybe that anything that is touching space void will be constantly cooled down so you need to insulate base

+cryo volcanoes on top and you have quite the cold hell.

[gabberworld]

we need more cold at rime, that toes actually starts freeze

[goboking]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:45 AM, Oxydiser said:

Although frostbite debuff is a great idea.

Agreed.

[troyandabed]

On 10/8/2021 at 8:48 AM, crbd115 said:

I do hope something like this gets added

I don't really agree with these as they are something used as a goal for late game industry. Giving them to the player kind of defeats the point. I do however think that there can be cold gas vents that just aren't liquid since they still have a large cold temp range before they to get to liquid. This means that they still cool the environment and still create problems to solve without just skipping to a late game resource. 

One idea to make it somewhat reasonable would be to give the hydrogen in small amounts solid, deny supercoolant, thus forcing late game players to very very carefully warm up their hydrogen such that they can liquify it without it becoming gaseous.

[ZombieDupe]

I know this is late, but I thought I would elaborate a little more on the subject of Liquid Oxygen and Liquid Hydrogen geyser ideas. I think they would work just fine if restricted to solely Rime for example and here's why.

First off, I personally really like the idea of a Liquid Oxygen Geyser because it gives you the option of using it for rocketry as well as heating it up for solving all your oxygen needs but with a massive pressure and freezing temperatures risk (if frostbite is added as well). If it only spawns on a particular type of planetoid (Rime) it limits natural liquid oxygen production to that planetoid and makes Rime very desirable to start out on as a challenge or travel to late game. It would NOT eliminate the need for supercooling other sources of oxygen and hydrogen into their liquid counterparts because you may want more refill stations than just a single planetoid which means you would have to cool down some yourself with supercoolant the traditional difficult way. It also frees up newer players who don't know how to do this (but with aforementioned limitations and high risk) to learn how to handle liquid oxygen and hydrogen for fueling these types of rockets.

And again, it works great as a hook for people to try and play something else; you get one or two late game resources or one end game resource on your planetoid if you start at a harder one, but it's a harder start overall and you still have to travel across space to collect other ones (like resin, graphite, niobium, tungsten and so on). Because of this a boon like this I think is alright, even perfect fit to have fun tackling. I can't imagine not wanting supercoolant for other things or the same thing elsewhere if I'm given Liquid Oxygen or Liquid Hydrogen geyser mid-game on one planetoid, whether it's on the planetoid I start out on, have to travel to through teleporters or use rockets to obtain it. Not to mention all the pressure problems from the output heating up if I wanted to use these for other purposes than Hydrogen rockets.

[WhiteWind36]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:31 PM, cpy said:

Someone should make cryovolcanos.

Or maybe that anything that is touching space void will be constantly cooled down so you need to insulate base

+cryo volcanoes on top and you have quite the cold hell.

Space freezing instead of heating would be at least more logical, although it's against one of basics heat transfer mechanics, where you have no heat transfer in vacuum... So cold space would be awesome, but then we have rockets, which produces heat - so all starting cold on the surface soon will be neglected and everything would be melting away. I have situation like that on Swampy metal asteroid, whose surface covered in ice.

And yes, I totally agree with everyone that we need more cold geysers/vents/volcanos... Is -10 C° slush and -55C° carbon dioxide looks enough variaty of cold sources, when we have endless heat sources? Definitely - no. There should be something with temperatures beyond -100 C° to be really challenging and even some colder stuff... For example there could be a cryo ethanol vent with ethanol coming out just above it's freezing temperature. I don't think this will make somebody happy, but at least it will be some decent challenge especially if outputs is very variable and activity is pretty high. I found hard to deal with lots of natural occuring ethnol at temperatures from 0 to -10, so immense amount of it at super freezing temperatures would be really something to work with and would definitely cause some cold problems. Also it could always appear open and active, so you don't have an option to just skip dealing with at all.