We need proper Airlocks and better Visco Gel

[Sasza22]

Personally i almost never build liquid locks and i almost never had problems beacause of that. Honorable example was that failed steam turbine that got too much oxygen inside but i believe the devs made steam rise above oxygen recently. I got a messy playstyle and often i have to resort to pumping stuff around and digging CO2 pits to get chlorine on the right level etc. But it`s perfectly managable and i think nobody shouldn`t be bothered if they lose a couple of grams of oxygen to space.

Anyway i`m not against a late game solution like a buildable visco gel door that doesn`t get broken by spilled liquids and can be placed horizontally.

[Pulstar]

Besides needing something that could possibly let radbolts pass from inside a hot nuclear reactor chamber, I never felt I needed a liquid lock to do something. Even that case is kind of situational, since you can have less efficient radbolt collectors on the outside of an insulated tile wall and get less rads.

I just let gasses gather below or above the base and pump them out when a gas element sensor detects something other than oxygen. For polluted oxygen I just place a deodorizer on the "safe" side of the door in case something spills. A lot of problems with unwanted gasses can be solved by taking advantage of gas segregation by density, designing chambers or rooms around that.

[ZombieDupe]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:38 PM, marioespinho said:

I really have nothing else to say about this. You overexaggerate something that is so simple, while making it seem like we are talking about a vital point of the game, that have no way to address without doing whatever you hate to do, while also being near to impossible for someone to discover. I'll just let these gems here and move on.

Have a nice one.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, marioespinho said:

Because he is making it seem like liquid locks ( or any lock tbh ) is 100% needed to progress in the game. That is simply not the case. You can easily put down a pump, gas filters and vent the undesireable gas(es) wherever you want.

I don't mind people thinking the opposite way, but it is annoying when people just come up with facts that are totally wrong, say that we lack options when said options exist and when the claim that there is no other way around the issue when there is. He is just distorting the facts in order to make his point sound more valid than what it really is.

I also don't mind at all if Klei decides to put proper locks in the game at all, nor i mind about people that would like to see them in the game. What i can't get behind is claims that "the game is annoying like this and many people quit because of it", "it's impossible to be sucessful without liquid locks" or "WE NEED proper locks because the game is annoying without them". Those claims are false, and may even mislead people into not figuring the game out because "there is no other way to play".

ONI is a building game, a "learn as you play" game, an imagination game, a game for people to fail, learn and do better next time. Give them easy solutions and you are taking away from what the game should be in the first place. Of course it's also a single player game, so you can play however you want, and that is why the workshop exists, or even the sandbox mode.

But this issue is not a "WE NEED" or a "IT SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. It's a personal playing preference. And my biggest pet peeve on this, is that the very thing he's asking for, is available in the workshop, balanced as fas as i know, working and ready to download. The only difference is that it wasn't Klei making it.

So all this fuss over something that it can easily be fixed, either by downloading a mod or just playing by the current game rules. Not doing so is a personal preference/problem, no Klei's responsability at all.

And, for the record, i'm not trying to be hostile. If it seems that way i'm sorry.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't agree with . The liquid lock provides you with a margin of erro, so with something like a hot geyser tamer, you could have duplicants come in and adjust things, as opposed to all the gas inside leaking out along with heat for miles the moment you pop it open.

And I'm not sure how you think what I said about DST points in unreasonable. Spawning tentacles under Bee Queen is the cheese I'm talking about, yet somehow you disagree with that sentiment? You can fight the boss legitemately, but if you have the means to just set up an automated farm real quick then you probably will. I see people do it most times. If you think a casual player can reasonably figure out how to get to fighting and beating the Fuel Weaver, I would like to hear this hypothetical. Extra points if you can link me a playthrough of this actually happening.

On 3/9/2021 at 2:58 PM, Gurgel said:

Pretty much this. The whole thing is basically completely invalid because it claims things that are not true. 

I can see how liquid locks may not be entirely mandatory. But for a player learning as they play, it may as well be because of how simple it makes trial and error with deadly stuff. I have seen gas-containment asked about before by casuals and recommended to be used quite a bit. And for someone with your experience and mindset I would not expect you to understand, and it's evident you don't want to think about how a casual would typically approach games like this, or may be just can't for some reason.

It's not necessarily about whether they are required period. There are other options and workarounds. But for the sake of someone casually playing the game and someone like me getting frustrated to build something so messy without locks when I have the capability and knowledge of them while hating to use them, an alternative option to that would be welcome and improve the game. Klei recently added starting resources to DST, which was a great addition, less player corpses around to clean up and new players have a chance at harsher season starts, I have seen this in action myself.

[marioespinho]

2 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

And I'm not sure how you think what I said about DST points in unreasonable. Spawning tentacles under Bee Queen is the cheese I'm talking about, yet somehow you disagree with that sentiment? You can fight the boss legitemately, but if you have the means to just set up an automated farm real quick then you probably will. I see people do it most times. If you think a casual player can reasonably figure out how to get to fighting and beating the Fuel Weaver, I would like to hear this hypothetical. Extra points if you can link me a playthrough of this actually happening.

You are basically assuming everyone that ever killed Bee Queen or Fuelweaver were following a guide on exactly how to do it, cheesing it in Bee Queen's case.

I think that is as far from reality as it can get.

Sure, casual players might need to get a guide if they don't have or don't want to commit the time into the game to figure it out on their own, but that is their choice, it's not enforced in any means.

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

I can see how liquid locks may not be entirely mandatory. But for a player learning as they play, it may as well be because of how simple it makes trial and error with deadly stuff.

Wait. So you are saying that liquid locks may as well be mandatory because they make trial and error with deadly stuff simple? But isn't the point of the airlock you are requesting to do the exact same thing as the liquid locks? I get more and more confused every post.

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

It's not necessarily about whether they are required period. There are other options and workarounds. But for the sake of someone casually playing the game and someone like me getting frustrated to build something so messy without locks when I have the capability and knowledge of them while hating to use them, an alternative option to that would be welcome and improve the game.

So you start by saying that there are other options and end by saying an alternative option would be welcome. Okay.

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Klei recently added starting resources to DST, which was a great addition

You mean extra starting reasources? How does that translate into an airlock, a permanent solution to deal with gas transfer, in oni?

[Niil945]

For me it's not about whether liquid locks work. It makes sense, early on, to use simple liquid locks to contain and manage gas flow. The issue I have is that it's used throughout the entire game as the best and simplest solution. It's something I would like a tech solution to, particularly as airlocks make sense in a sci-fi world with all this other crazy tech. The tools in game allow us to build pseudo equivalent, but the nature of pumps and door mechanics mean that it's far less effective at managing gas flow, far more time consuming, and far more bulky to build than simply plopping down a liquid lock and dumping in some oil or petroleum. I would be happy to use other alternatives in game (transit tubes) if we actually could build transit tubes in hot environments. It seems silly later on to have dupes diving through petroleum filled liquid locks to access temperature/gas containment areas when the more thematic and aesthetically fitting alternatives that would be easy to implement (i.e. giving us transit tube system material alternatives that could withstand higher temps).

[JRup]

8 hours ago, Niil945 said:

i.e. giving us transit tube system material alternatives that could withstand higher temps).

Who's up for glass transit tubes (or diamond, maybe)?

Just imagine the lava-scapes to see.

[babba]

31 minutes ago, JRup said:

Who's up for glass transit tubes (or diamond, maybe)?

Just imagine the lava-scapes to see.

Diamond transit dupes would be awesome.

Similar to melting plastic tubes, the diamond transit tube can burn much more intense...with the risk of rapidly spreading fire through the entire transit tube connected colony.

Also, new material idea: Glutonium ! Glutonium is brittle material which melts at 5000 Celsius but instantly cripples to dust if it comes in contact with water. Glutonium can only be created by breeding it with many uranium rods... in the games reactor RMBK-1000

Glutonium was invented by dupe Stink-o-Reo in 1999, by accident - The patent is expired by now.

[JRup]

3 minutes ago, babba said:

Stink-o-Reo

The time-traveling dupe.

[babba]

11 minutes ago, JRup said:

The time-traveling dupe.

I once met him at the Rio Grande.

That was lovely dreamy times, down in copper brown. He used to sing the most wonderful music

The historic dupe smelter in DupePaso - It would be great to have a railway in the game

 

[ZanthraSW]

Transit tubes are a very nice way of doing air locks, especially as maintenance access for cryogenic machinery where temps are going to be too low for many liquid lock materials.

Glass and diamond transit tubes, as well as glass and diamond transit tube wall crossings would be a great addition not just for airlock purposes but simply to be able to use transit tubes without worrying a dupe carrying 1000C gold will melt the transit tube piping by dropping it at an inconvenient time.

Arguably transit tubes could be moved to their own layer as well, as it does not feel that it would make them overly strong, but much easier to integrate into existing infrastructure. No strong feelings on that either way though.

[spkthed]

Huge +1. I think liquid locks are fine, natural, and easy. Beefing up tubes feels like an organic fix. Strongly disagree with tech options for airlocks. For tubes - maybe adding multiple materials? Plastic + another material for insulation + additional research before it's unlocked. Obsidian or mafic rock for really hot places + a long build time maybe?

I would vote for not-diamond - it's too rare as-is, unless it becomes renewable.

[Bluefoxfire]

46 minutes ago, spkthed said:

I would vote for not-diamond - it's too rare as-is, unless it becomes renewable.

Unless you use the free steel and diamond exploit that STILL hasn't been patched out.

[JRup]

1 hour ago, spkthed said:

I would vote for not-diamond - it's too rare as-is, unless it becomes renewable.

Still "renewable" in vanilla, just send a rocket to a carbon asteroid and wait for delivery.

[marioespinho]

Well, if the point is to use diamond on hot areas only, i'd say that even the limited amouint we have right now would suffice.

[Yunru]

On 3/21/2021 at 6:07 AM, JRup said:

Who's up for glass transit tubes (or diamond, maybe)?

Just imagine the lava-scapes to see.

I think there's a mod for that, or at least I have something similar on my list. 

[babba]

7 hours ago, ZanthraSW said:

Transit tubes are a very nice way of doing air locks, especially as maintenance access for cryogenic machinery where temps are going to be too low for many liquid lock materials.

Glass and diamond transit tubes, as well as glass and diamond transit tube wall crossings would be a great addition not just for airlock purposes but simply to be able to use transit tubes without worrying a dupe carrying 1000C gold will melt the transit tube piping by dropping it at an inconvenient time.

Arguably transit tubes could be moved to their own layer as well, as it does not feel that it would make them overly strong, but much easier to integrate into existing infrastructure. No strong feelings on that either way though.

Mhhh glass and diamond transit tubes Mhhhhhhhhhh nice

In a perfect ONi world there could be 100,200,500 and 1000 ton "Storage compressor compactors" made out of silver, gold or diamond. If we also had fire in the game then some welding repairs could get them to start burning. As the ONi firefighters arrive they can mop up the leaking paper & nuclear waste or pee on it if there is a lack of colony toilets.

In 2025, when the game performance and crash resilience has been further improved, I could consider mods. However, I normally don`t take on any mods due to aiming for max game performance and it also breaks my game immersion. If I would use mods, I could also paint the geysers I need ( missing dlc world generation as in the base game ) in to save games, so I normally don`t go down the mod route. A real mod for me would be a fire engine with dupe firefighters, water hoses and foam extinguishers. Material choices and variety IMHO should be part of the vanilla game.

The Emergency DLC

Proper storage compactors had been added to ONi in 2023 ( Air lock sealed )

[ZanthraSW]

50 minutes ago, babba said:

...

In a perfect ONi world there could be 100,200,500 and 1000 ton "Storage compressor compactors" made out of silver, gold or diamond....

Silver isn’t even in the game, and gold is a very soft metal. Perhaps a tungsten carbide alloy or something of that sort, since we have both tungsten and carbon already.

[babba]

12 minutes ago, ZanthraSW said:

Silver isn’t even in the game, and gold is a very soft metal. Perhaps a tungsten carbide alloy or something of that sort, since we have both tungsten and carbon already.

Chemistry at school would have been so much more interesting if I would have had ONi at the time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide - I like that

High pressure oil fields + oil rig drilling would be a wet ONi dream

[JRup]

1 hour ago, babba said:

A real mod for me would be

I'll take a bit to say that a mod that doesn't kill immersion is one that's usually out of the way. For example "Default off switch" takes 1 menial bit of gameplay and fixes it.

[babba]

24 minutes ago, JRup said:

I'll take a bit to say that a mod that doesn't kill immersion is one that's usually out of the way. For example "Default off switch" takes 1 menial bit of gameplay and fixes it.

Perhaps a recommended mod if one uses nuclear devices in the game