I feel like Atomic Research should be a bigger progression gate/threshold mechanic

[kultcher]

Not sure what Klei's bigger picture idea for radiation/nuclear materials is, so I may be jumping the gun here. I expect they'll add a late-game power-sink to give us more reason to use a reactor, but I think Atomic Research could also use some fleshing out.

Right now it feels way to easy to just accumulate HEP to use in the Atomic Collider with minimal setup. I threw together 5 Wheezeworts and a few collectors and I immediately had enough HEP that even the second "tier" of Atomic Research techs wouldn't have slowed me down at all, would've had to wait a cycle or two at worse. I feel like you could just set up something simple early game with a single Wheezewort to feed your Atomic Collider and by the time you were ready to dig into higher research, you'd have plenty of HEP to burn without having to put much effort into it at all.

My pitch would be to make HEP something that you have to reach a threshold of, rather than just accumulate. In other words, instead of just generating X amount of HEP over however many cycles and accumulating it like a battery, you would have to be able to be generate X amount of HEP per second *consistently* to research higher techs. If your HEP production dropped below the threshold level, the Atomic Collider wouldn't work at all until you restored the HEP flow.

This would not only naturally force you to expand your infrastructure in order to power the collectors, it would also require you to seek out more ways to produce radiation, like for higher techs might require to use Uranium and the associated structures. I think this could provide a smoother flow of progression as you would periodically have to refactor your research setup to reach the next "tier" of rocket engines or whatever else they add to the later-game tech tree.

[EricS]

As I understand it, research is only one of the planned uses of HEP.  Depending on how much the other uses need, that may take care of pushing the player to expand their HEP production. 

[SackMaggie]

Would be nice to convert those HEP to power.

[cpy]

Or maybe use them to transmute material? Maybe lead to gold etc?

[Pulstar]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

Or maybe use them to transmute material? Maybe lead to gold etc?

This is the one I am hoping for. Including new exotic materials.

Also might be used for genetic engineering.

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, cpy said:

Or maybe use them to transmute material? Maybe lead to gold etc?

I think the other direction would now be more useful. No lead volcanoes...

2 hours ago, Pulstar said:

Also might be used for genetic engineering.

Finally I can get that dupe with two heads!

[Pulstar]

10 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Finally I can get that dupe with two heads!

You need to think bigger, dupe superpowers!

[suicide commando]

How about one with 4 arms? Then he could be doubly productive!

Or maybe we could create vacilator charges with HEPs.

 

[pether]

11 hours ago, kultcher said:

My pitch would be to make HEP something that you have to reach a threshold of, rather than just accumulate. In other words, instead of just generating X amount of HEP over however many cycles and accumulating it like a battery, you would have to be able to be generate X amount of HEP per second *consistently* to research higher techs. If your HEP production dropped below the threshold level, the Atomic Collider wouldn't work at all until you restored the HEP flow.

This is a great idea! I agree that techs can be researched too fast. Now you can rush to nuclear research tech and then slowly build HEPs gathered from that one shinebug flying in the room... Encouraging players to make some more risky designs would be cool!

If devs would like to keep researching fast and easy, the idea could be applied for another building. Something doing super cool stuff as long as it has enought HEPs, but if you run out of them in this building it would go fireworks.

29 minutes ago, suicide commando said:

Or maybe we could create vacilator charges with HEPs.

Another great idea! Now we cannot find them in the space, so maybe we could create them this way

[TheTickingTick]

2 hours ago, Pulstar said:

You need to think bigger, dupe superpowers!

You need to think bigger, how about a dupe controlling a whole reality where every dupe is happy, zero stress and living a happy life from outside.

[Zakery]

What about to use HEP to transmit automation signals between planetoids?

Anyway we need something for this, trivial radio is boring - using HEP may be more complex = interesting

[Pulstar]

18 minutes ago, Zakery said:

What about to use HEP to transmit automation signals between planetoids?

Anyway we need something for this, trivial radio is boring - using HEP may be more complex = interesting

A relay that would need X HEP charges every Y seconds to stay online/get recharged would be great.

Also I think that once the interplanetary payload launcher gets implemented, one could somehow use that to send automation signals. Launch payload with automation if X happens. On the target site, payload landing of the specific type would trigger automation. The main question is if/how payloads fired with the mass driver could be automatically gathered and opened without dupes. With dupes I would just make them store the signal resource (ex. sedimentary rock, regolith or something not so valuable/plentiful) into a smart container, which would trigger the automation. As a reset I would have an automatic sweeper empty the smart container after the signal is "done" and drop it with a shipping conduit into a walled off chamber (or send it back to the origin planetoid).

[babba]

If regolith from the base game would/will come back and space above the starter colonies would/will get harder to play...Then currently the wheezie`s could/would be the radiation source of choice for a lot for fresh players.

Hopefully in 2-10 weeks we will see some update(s) on world generation and more how space play will be above the beginner colonies. For me the world(s) top(s) feels empty and dead without raining regolith and metal meteors.

Adding to the starter world(s) "dead`ness" is the factor that there is nearly no geysers or metal volcanoes in the starter maps ( with very limited variety ), the ONI world doesn`t fell real for me currently. My opinion.

@kultcher "I feel like Atomic Research should be a bigger progression gate/threshold mechanic"

[RageLeague]

High energy particles, from what I understand about physics, loses a lot of energy very quickly, so it can't really be used for long distance communication.

Why do you think people use radiowave, an electromagnetic wave with a lot less frequency and energy, to communicate, rather than, say, gamma rays?

[Gurgel]

4 hours ago, TheTickingTick said:

You need to think bigger, how about a dupe controlling a whole reality where every dupe is happy, zero stress and living a happy life from outside.

Boooooring....

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, RageLeague said:

High energy particles, from what I understand about physics, loses a lot of energy very quickly

 So ONI does use -some- Physics! HEP degrade by 1 each traveling tile. It would be difficult to even reach from one side of the (small) map to the other. Probably HEP could not reach other planets then ..? (When will the next update be ready?! Kyaa! )

[Zakery]

2 hours ago, RageLeague said:

High energy particles, from what I understand about physics, loses a lot of energy very quickly, so it can't really be used for long distance communication.

Why do you think people use radiowave, an electromagnetic wave with a lot less frequency and energy, to communicate, rather than, say, gamma rays?

HEP loses energy if: 

1) they need to pass some dense medium

2) they in area of dense gravity or electromagnetic field

in vacuum and without grav / field no problem to fly 

in reality we have air and magnetic field of earth, so its clear that "particle throwing" is not good way to signal transfer (but we all know that bullet is the best way to transfer mental signals on distance).

in GAME reality HEP mechanics loock more interesting and complex, so more different setups and creativity - just set radio tower and put electrisity "on" is too simple

anyway - if we want to more "reality" - we can think that HEP is something like neutrino - they fly pretty good even in dense medium

[cpy]

Hmm dupe with two heads. Would that dupe be twice as smart or twice as stupid?

When it comes to regolith, perhaps not every asteroid should be exposed to meteor showers right?

[babba]

8 minutes ago, cpy said:

Hmm dupe with two heads. Would that dupe be twice as smart or twice as stupid?

When it comes to regolith, perhaps not every asteroid should be exposed to meteor showers right?

Maybe some form of atomic research can lead to a dupe splitting in half, where both parts ( the 2 new dupes ) have half the skills they had before...But their head size has increased. With big dupe heads ( or the head wrapped in toast bread ) it is visually obvious for the player who is dumb in the colony

Ellie eats everything

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, cpy said:

Hmm dupe with two heads. Would that dupe be twice as smart or twice as stupid?

Obviously far more smart about being stupid!

[Sasza22]

21 hours ago, kultcher said:

My pitch would be to make HEP something that you have to reach a threshold of, rather than just accumulate. In other words, instead of just generating X amount of HEP over however many cycles and accumulating it like a battery, you would have to be able to be generate X amount of HEP per second *consistently* to research higher techs. If your HEP production dropped below the threshold level, the Atomic Collider wouldn't work at all until you restored the HEP flow.

I feel like HEPs should just decay and have a half life period like radiation so they can`t be stored indefinetly. A half life mechanic inside the HEP ollector thingy would effectively limit how much it an store in a low radiation enviroment. Honestly i think space radiation alone shouldn`t be enough to produce HEPs consistently and wheezeworts should allow a slow rate of production so getting tech points without a proper reactor or at least some radioactive minerals would take a long time.

4 hours ago, Zakery said:

HEP loses energy if: 

1) they need to pass some dense medium

2) they in area of dense gravity or electromagnetic field

in vacuum and without grav / field no problem to fly

HEP also often share the same charge so they repell each other. A stream of HEP would get more and more dispersed over large distances so it would get difficult to catch them all from another planet.

[sakura_sk]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

Obviously far more smart about being stupid!

They could have 2 different stress reactions (e.g. one head smashing a tile while the other head vomits)

[RageLeague]

8 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

HEP also often share the same charge so they repell each other. A stream of HEP would get more and more dispersed over large distances so it would get difficult to catch them all from another planet.

Depends on which type of particle, I guess? Considering that gamma ray oven is hidden in the game's database, we may assume that the HYEP! in-game are high energy photons(?) I'm not sure.

[Sasza22]

4 minutes ago, RageLeague said:

Depends on which type of particle, I guess? Considering that gamma ray oven is hidden in the game's database, we may assume that the HYEP! in-game are high energy photons(?) I'm not sure.

Photons might work but still maintaining a cohesive stream of them over large distances is tricky. It would require a special lense structure to send and catch them.

[Zakery]

5 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Photons might work but still maintaining a cohesive stream of them over large distances is tricky. It would require a special lense structure to send and catch them.

Well, we don't know that HEP type "used" in ONI, but for "reality lovers" it can be:

1) Neutrino

2) Neutrone

3) Photone

all without electric charge and all have simular problems for cohestive stream over large distance (for photons we have lasers so if we have lots of photons we can reach really long distance) 

Anyway, idea to use some "unnamed" HEP to transfer signals loocks more fun than trivial "radio tower".

But on automation level differ logic needed - now we have dual logic green / red constant.

For interplanetoid transfer more "realistic" is "impulse logic" - "state change" , or "state set" 

6 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I feel like HEPs should just decay and have a half life period like radiation

Not in reality - if we talk about elementary particles.

Half-life period is for high mass elements  - uranium, plutonium, etc. not for neutrons, photons (we not tolk about bosons and kwark level)

But for uranium fuel in game HL period can be interesting - mass convert to radiation and heat - more trickky to store and use