Rockets are ugly, and misleading

[JoelleEmmily]

I'm sorry, they just are, you have mismatched sizes with little transition, weird shapes, and little uniformity... The game does have a ramshackle feel to it that works rather well, but with the rockets, I think that esthetic is turned up a little too high, and just makes them look like eyesores. Adding in more size options, or maybe two standardized sizes based on the selected engine that limits which modules can be added, then beautifying the models a little? Not a huge deal though, I guess I can suppress my OCD for a few minutes... then suffer a heart attack later on in my sixties while wistfully remembering a game I played in my not so youth...

But the engine to module ratios, is just plain misleading. When I slap down a hydrogen engine, I'm promised the freedom and flexibility of six modules... well four when you factor in the fuel and oxidizer tanks... well three when you add the command module... well two if you want to go with the bigger spacefarer and nosecone modules... but lets' go with three and an ugly tiny command capsule. This is the same number as the steam engine, which has its own supply tank, and would be on par with the sugar and CO2 engines if you factor in a nose cone. So why would I choose a hydro engine over a steam engine? Well... range, range is a very good answer, but module limits basically make the internal cargo taps useless in that case, as soon as I add a battery and gas storage, I have one or no modules for actually hauling crap around... so I'm not really incentivized to use them, especially when the community has come up with some excellent designs for space optimization. Don't get me wrong, I want the in command module cargo taps, I *NEED* the command module cargo taps... I'll die without them... in space... alone... adrift... bleeding heat like a naked incandescent bulb... *Cough*

There are a few solutions to this quandary: Give the larger engines more modules; I think most would prefer this solution. Or my personal favourite, remodel the engines to include their fuel and oxidizer storage... and... add a service module... which I've shilled for previously. With a service module, you'd have the ability to enter the space, build your necessary support equipment, batteries, gas/liquid storage, filters, scrubbers, whatever you need, and interface it with the command module. This extra space could be balanced out with the inability to pressurize, or a check to kick dups out on launch, or a plain old instakill. This module would eliminate the necessity to pick and choose between modules to help support the dups, and ones to haul more stuff around. It would also add interesting complexity, a new skill set to learn, problems to overcome... maybe pipes freeze quicker in the module, or heat up rapidly because their in sunlight... maybe you add in something for temperature regulation... maybe you have to choose between spots for life support, and power generation... maybe a hydrogen fuel cell... maybe other stuff...?

My point is... this is a really good mod idea, if not a standard gameplay one.

[babba]

Maybe Klei can also have a techno design blast with a Space Shuttle for the game

Rocket interiors: I always imagined the Spacestation "Mir" like this ( image from @Artouiros ...Sauna would be nice  ).

Somehow I like the flying ONi Zoo`s, but it also would be nice to be able to ( optionally ) use more spaced themed ( functional ) items.

 

[NewWorldDan]

From a mod standpoint, it would be trivial to modify the standard interiors of the rockets.  And... looking at the .yaml files for the interiors...

 

- element: Vacuum
  diseaseName: FoodPoisoning
  location_x: -1
  location_y: 1

 

Ok, that's funny.  The template file includes a few stray bits of food poisoning.  Someone at Klei was sloppy with their sandbox build of the interior.  

 

Back to topic... I have no doubt they'll get the rockets cleaned up once things are more feature complete.  Generally speaking, I love the art direction in this game.

But the rocket interiors do need a few things - micro filters to go with the micro gas and liquid pumps.  Something akin to oxylite to absorb carbon dioxide.  And so forth.  Maybe a 2 tile plastic carbon skimmer that can be emptied and refilled.

[ghkbrew]

2 hours ago, NewWorldDan said:

Something akin to oxylite to absorb carbon dioxide.  And so forth.  Maybe a 2 tile plastic carbon skimmer that can be emptied and refilled.

Maybe an "activated charcoal filter" that uses refined carbon to just delete CO2 sort like the hand sanitizer station does with bleach stone.

[Sasza22]

As i see it currently the battery module is a trap. Large engines produce enough power for your command capsule and when you are landed the dupe is outside so doesn`t need power inside for the most part. Actually i think they should replace it with a solar module that generates extra power in light and works as a battery on the ground.

But anyway. The current rocketry is in a weird place. On one side we have modules meant for small rockets, easy to set up and meant for close travel. On the other we got the huge modules from the base game and they just don`t match with each other visually. Especially the command nosecone looks ridiculous on top of a huge rocket. The devs kinda trapped themselves with this design. Honestly i wouldn`t oppose if they made some of the modules bigger just so that they fit with each other.

Still the modules need some sort of balance. An utility module that just fullfills a life support role would be best, especially if it`s the size of a liquid oxydizer tank. Some engines could use an extra module spot to make them more flexible. And of course we need better management of resources inside the rocket so that we can both transport gas from planet to planet and have an oxygen supply not mixing with it.

[ghkbrew]

Personally, I don't like the module limits on the engines. They seem arbitrary and are a rather ham-fisted way of balancing engine capabilities. I would much prefer going back to the original game system where increased weight decreases your range.

[babba]

32 minutes ago, ghkbrew said:

Personally, I don't like the module limits on the engines. They seem arbitrary and are a rather ham-fisted way of balancing engine capabilities. I would much prefer going back to the original game system where increased weight decreases your range.

+10000 Sievert...The previous rocket weight system felt more "real" for me.

[misotoma]

On 2/26/2021 at 11:39 PM, JoelleEmmily said:

I'm sorry, they just are

I like the way you expressed your point. Nice read : )

Also it seems little by little.. how the game used to be.. is shining through. I'm > < this close from going back to classic mode lol

[babba]

5 hours ago, misotoma said:

I like the way you expressed your point. Nice read : )

Also it seems little by little.. how the game used to be.. is shining through. I'm > < this close from going back to classic mode lol

[Pulstar]

On 2/28/2021 at 2:42 AM, ghkbrew said:

Personally, I don't like the module limits on the engines. They seem arbitrary and are a rather ham-fisted way of balancing engine capabilities. I would much prefer going back to the original game system where increased weight decreases your range.

Pretty much this, just assume maximum cargo mass like in the base game for fuel/oxydizer/cargo modules and pick an arbitrary mass for the crew modules no matter what is inside (it's another dimension inside like in the TARDIS anyway). I thought that was an ok abstraction without going full rocket equation on it. Speed should also be a trade off for max range, but we lacked that in the base game as well.

I guess the problem in such a system is balancing the small and large crew modules in the context exploration range, general utility and progression. If you stick a small capsule on a large engine you could find and reach very far off planetoids quickly if it is too light. If you make the small capsule not a whole lot lighter than the big crew module (or the mass difference between the two irrelevant compared to the mass of the rest of the rocket), then why use the small capsule at all? With the current system the small capsule uses 1 slot less, giving it some kind of an advantage (it ain't much honestly, but it is something).

 

 

[babba]

18 minutes ago, Pulstar said:

...I guess the problem in such a system is balancing the small and large crew modules in the context exploration range, general utility and progression...

I also don`t like looking at the hex field map, it breaks my galaxy immersion, but I do understand that the devs have done it for simplification ( as with the rocket module limits ). However, I did love the "Kilometer" based asteroid map from the base game and the rocket weight system. Both of those things form the base game made me feel that the rocket system and the ONi world is "real".

[minespatch]

1 minute ago, babba said:

but I do understand that the devs have done it for simplification ( as with the rocket module limits

I wish the rocket system was a bit more simplified for me. Just even the idea of makinr rockets are a bit overwhelming because of the swap and choose style of the rocket instead of the stereotypical "tube with a launcher and cone" that I'm familiar with real life. 

Kudos to those who love the system Klei made but I avoid the space travel because of my dumbness.

[babba]

9 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I wish the rocket system was a bit more simplified for me. Just even the idea of makinr rockets are a bit overwhelming because of the swap and choose style of the rocket instead of the stereotypical "tube with a launcher and cone" that I'm familiar with real life. 

Kudos to those who love the system Klei made but I avoid the space travel because of my dumbness.

Ive got an idea for this - Klei has got these little prefab buildings ( water pitcher, kitchen, bed enclosure etc. ) spawning in the starter worlds. They might as well spawn a fully fitted sugar rocket and fuel tiles around it in the starter world map top - Everything ready to go, no hassle. This would allow beginners and everyone to have a fast little rocket and exploration success pretty soon in the early game.

[Sasza22]

7 hours ago, minespatch said:

I wish the rocket system was a bit more simplified for me. Just even the idea of makinr rockets are a bit overwhelming because of the swap and choose style of the rocket instead of the stereotypical "tube with a launcher and cone" that I'm familiar with real life. 

Kudos to those who love the system Klei made but I avoid the space travel because of my dumbness.

Well they made the rockets a bit simplier. But at the same time they made them more unforgiving and complicated in a different place. I still hope they can hit a sweet spot where the early rockets will require minimal setup and the later would still offer the design freedom we currently got.

[crbd115]

28 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Well they made the rockets a bit simplier. But at the same time they made them more unforgiving and complicated in a different place. I still hope they can hit a sweet spot where the early rockets will require minimal setup and the later would still offer the design freedom we currently got.

I feel part of this can be fixed by simplifying the command capsules. At first I really liked the idea of trying to make an efficient design but it honestly got tedious real quick and I think it's part of what scares new players a little. I'm also not a fan of this allowing us to cheese the storage since we can just drop an unlimited amount of crap on the floor and take it with us. Personally I think it should just be the basic command capsule can have up to two duplicants {a pilot and maybe a co pilot if you want), and the advanced one can have four. Then you just fill it with an amount of food and oxygen through a gas port and just some manual duplicant labor. The number of duplicants determines how quickly those resources are depleted, and it is assumed the capsule has a bathroom port that just ejects the waste into space. I feel this would simplify things greatly and reduce some of the ability to cheese things.

[RageLeague]

The idea of a spacefarer module is that you don't just have to put basic life support. You can put productive workspaces in there as well, or other things. For example, you can put a telescope to discover more area while inflight or you can put an atmo suit station and allow dupes to use the suits only when exiting the rocket. It can provide refuge for your dupes during the early stages of colonizing a planet, so you don't need to rush toilet or food on a new planet on day 1. Still, it enables cheesing the rocket system with infinite storage.

[Pulstar]

I had an idea to build a colony with rockets as habitats. If fittings for liquid/gas worked better (unloading on demand/always etc. and not just after landing) you could make dupes live inside of them like in small space houses, while they mine the hostile magma planetoid. Build a rocket first on your main planetoid, fly it to the dedicated new landing pad, land it, deconstruct engines/fuel tanks and replace them with storage modules to use the needed fittings.

It is also feasible now, but fitting working better would make it way less of a hassle, especially for toilets or oxygen.

[ZombieDupe]

May be the amount of fuel you have could decide how far you can go without refuelling and the engine type on how many modules you can install? Not entirely realistic, but it's easy to grasp without fiddling with numbers too much. The current module amount does seem too small with the amount of fuel tanks you need just to have some fuel for the later engines. And we can may be also have magma engines...

[babba]

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

May be the amount of fuel you have could decide how far you can go without refuelling and the engine type on how many modules you can install? Not entirely realistic, but it's easy to grasp without fiddling with numbers too much. The current module amount does seem too small with the amount of fuel tanks you need just to have some fuel for the later engines. And we can may be also have magma engines...

I know its additional work and the programmers have to do enough already with the dlc...but it would be nice if Klei defines the map hex fields in Kilometers and gets back to the great km/fuel/weight/modules rocket launch and distance system of the base game

Z - Like Zorro...Some awesome logo would be great

[SkunkMaster]

I just want a spacestation, that i can build where ever i like on the starmap.