babba Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 @Ipsquiggle Thank you that Klei stands for an open discourse with game critics and posted negative player feedback and critic points. I recently purchased a game on Steam which was a huge release disappointment for 1/3 players of that title ( according to that games Steam reviews and my own playing experience). That small developer studio is bashing down critics in their game`s Steam forum section and is trying to shutdown mentioned player game issues with that game title. Coming from that fresh ( negative ) community experience I must say the Klei is a good example of player critic interaction and how Klei handles player feedback. Kind regards to the Klei development team, babba Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
pether Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 You are 100% correct, I really love how KLEI handles players' feedback. But there is one thing that you forgot about - ONI's community. You are probably just humble, but admit it - our community presents itself really nice. KLEI couldn't react to constructive feedback if we didn't provide a such, and we would be discouraged to do so if we met only toxic and spiteful answers to our oppinions. We appreciate the game, have great ideas how to improve it, we are helpful and supportive to each other. And when there is something that we would change in the game - we can address it in a constructive and cultural way. I play several games, but ONI is the only one I feel I can express my oppinions on the forums - other titles are surged with such level of toxicity that makes me wish to forget about forums and focus on the game itself. And I believe that such a great community really helps KLEI to constantly improve ONI and make it even better with every update Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex BNC Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Totally agree. It is a very good feeling to know someone do care It is a good felling to know you can have different opinion without being an enemy or outcast. Keep up the good work! You are amazing. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, pether said: You are 100% correct, I really love how KLEI handles players' feedback. But there is one thing that you forgot about - ONI's community. You are probably just humble, but admit it - our community presents itself really nice. KLEI couldn't react to constructive feedback if we didn't provide a such, and we would be discouraged to do so if we met only toxic and spiteful answers to our oppinions. We appreciate the game, have great ideas how to improve it, we are helpful and supportive to each other. And when there is something that we would change in the game - we can address it in a constructive and cultural way. I play several games, but ONI is the only one I feel I can express my oppinions on the forums - other titles are surged with such level of toxicity that makes me wish to forget about forums and focus on the game itself. And I believe that such a great community really helps KLEI to constantly improve ONI and make it even better with every update +1 My experience with game forums is that 6-12 toxic regular forumistas are enough to ruin a games forum experience for players visiting a game forum, where friendly forum visitors just want to ask game questions or mention "Unpopular" game issues. There is a variety of companies of famous played games which tolerate and therefore value toxic personal insulters in their game forums by not issuing bans against repeated personal attack behavior users. At the end it is always the responsibility of the Community Manager > The Producer > The Studio Director > The Studio Owner or Publisher. Toxic game forums miss out on collecting and listening on possible valuable user feedback, as friendly posters give up on receiving a constant barrage of personal attacks from toxic posters. It is rare that game programmers and game content creators, like with the good Klei ( ONi ) team, directly respond to users games forum feedback and decide to collect forum user feedback for content integration in to their game title. Funny enough I was a few times contacted here "That I would work for Klei" In one game title from a different company I have receive death threats via personal messages - I play games since nearly 4 decades, spanning probably 2000 game titles, at that point I did wonder what games, the internet and the world in general had become. These death threats where in an competitive game, where I basically terminate all players in the game by just playing the game...as designed. However, toxic players and posters use any reason to commence with their behavior. Once a forum is infected with "Toxics" its game over for friendly folks - Gladly this is not the case here Grandpa babba, finishing the eSport teens off Normally its good to reveal no personal content, its better when people imagine your 12, 20, 30 , 40 or 99. Put your Pink Darth Vader mask on and erase them all with love. Best is with toxic ingame players to pretend your really bad at a game and then you reveal the mastery and play like 10 players combined in a title and finish them off with ease. As soon a toxic player starts offending players I boot the antitoxic Skynet Defcon strategy. If you can laugh about yourself in life, then you have the immunity aura. "A joke should never be at the cost of someone else, except if the person is joking about himself." Babba Bible Gaming Verse 17, 2nd Gold TinTin Edition Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Well, we do have the occasional clash here. But I do not think anybody is destructive and even people with, aehm, "special" opinions try to argue in good faith. And that is pretty rare and pretty nice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil945 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I think in my entire short time here I've seen one instance where I thought someone was being a sore about responses and crossed a respect line. Even then, it wasn't something I would classify as hostile or toxic just sore that no one agreed with them. At the same time, Klei lets people vent and complain about things without immediately becoming hostile and defensive through forum moderators and official staff responding. I absolutely hate when companies do that. I'd love to see them more active on the forums or more posts explaining where things are going or why they do or don't do things from a developer point of view, but that's just because I like that type of information/interaction and am interested in those topics, not that I feel it's necessary. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 There is a fast way to see if a games forum is "defended" ( often via player personal attacks ) by cultist fan boys, "the circle jerk toxic friends collective" or banhammer friendly moderators or games developers a la "You criticised the game - Permaban": "I would value this game xyz at usd7". Such feedback can be of equal value as "If I purchase this Paradox title with all DLCs then the charged 5500 dollars is a bit too much I find". Fifa, WoWs, Crossout, Warthunder, Eve, StarCitizen...If players are deeply invested with thousands of spent monies in a single game, conversation attempts can become also toxic very quick for minor reasons. Why some people have a life attitude and motto to always personally attack others has always wondered me. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, babba said: Why some people have a life attitude and motto to always personally attack others has always wondered me. Well, the idea is to attack the bearer of bad news. I.e. one of the most basic and most extreme mistakes you can make if you are trying to find out what reality is. If you think, however, that not knowing something makes that something go away, this is a perfectly rational strategy. Not one that works in this universe, though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Wise words. My attitude is to value others as a general motto. I am not sure if I did that when I was 20. What I always valued since I was 10 was the underdogs, others which got classified as "Loosers" by society. Monthly Python, Kings Quest, Larry, Simon & Garfunkel, the Cold War, Spaceballs, Star Wars, Leslie Nielsen, Arnie and Peter Sellers surely had an impact And now to something completely different: If Klei would name a player buildable nuke in the game... the completed and assembled "Dr. Strangelove device", that would be great. Insane climate change ice melting! The device needs 100K power for 10 seconds in order to detonate and melt stuff in a range width of 100 tiles. As alternative it could be called "The toxic device". Silly walk = Noodle legs Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
natanstarke Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Klei is the best and our fórum rocks with discussions and ideas :). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Toxic players came to my mind Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 22 hours ago, babba said: Why some people have a life attitude and motto to always personally attack others has always wondered me. I think getting personal is often confused with a heated argument.I like it when design flaws, for example, are taken apart with ridiculous mocking and transparent allusions to your complete failure as a designer and as a human being. When people wonder how you even mastered bipedalism if you built THIS. Mutual respect and politeness are all cool, of course, but nothing can replace the feeling of being told in a friendly, merciless way what an idiot you are and how bad you are at this game. Of course it's dangerous. Someone might be offended. But the speaker above is right. The community here isn't exactly conducive to a bloody confrontation. I've tried to get someone emotional a couple of times, but the disputes here are surprisingly quick to end because everyone has good arguments. I'm constantly forced to face the fact that I can't make fun of a person and have to listen to them because they're actually quite intelligent. And yes, I didn't get punched in the horn by a moderator for that, which made me very happy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 10 hours ago, MachineryMan said: a friendly, merciless way I find this two a little tiny bit contradicting. I would imagine it like shaking hand with someone while you slap him with the other hand... Friendly...? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, sakura_sk said: Friendly...? Do you have a different type of friend IRL? You should definitely make one like that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, MachineryMan said: You should definitely make one like that. I prefer my friends friendly and not merciless. Thank you. :P Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, sakura_sk said: I find this two a little tiny bit contradicting. I would imagine it like shaking hand with someone while you slap him with the other hand... Friendly...? This described concept analogy defines "Slapstick" in movies very well, whereas movie actors like Leslie Nielsen , Jerry Lewis , Peter Sellers and such often performed brilliant IMHO. Receiving or giving love and torture at the same time, as person, collective undertaking, company or country can often be directly understood by the audience, viewer or reader. It can be funny, sad, angering ...and very emotional at the same time. Commonly "2 buddies" or a "married couple" can "pull their leg" over a long time period, which can be funny and cringeworthy for the observer. In 1968 Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon became famous with the movie "The odd couple", modern adaptations would be Seinfeld , The Simpsons, South Park, Happy Tree Friends and such. Those behavioural core elements led to forums like "4chan" and "Reddit", more tame forum versions of "people nudging each other via art, screenshots or comments" are found in various dedicated Klei forum sections ( and in this thread ). @sakura_sk Your posted funny dupe-mishaps ingame screenshots are a delight @minespatch You add so much fun and art to the forum - Its great ! Slightly subversive behavioural patterns are found in some of my posts ...but I guess some have noticed by now Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: I prefer my friends friendly and not merciless. Thank you. :P You're just sensitive. I will be gentle with you. Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 9:24 AM, pether said: I play several games, but ONI is the only one I feel I can express my oppinions on the forums - other titles are surged with such level of toxicity that makes me wish to forget about forums and focus on the game itself. Have you even been to the Griftlands side of the forums? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, babba said: This described concept analogy defines "Slapstick" in movies very well Yeah... Don't really like that either.. Sorry. It's a funny one time when watching it in a movie but not IRL. 12 minutes ago, babba said: @sakura_sk > Your posted funny ingame screenshots are a delight During DLC testing I'll end up needing more hard drive space for screenshots than the whole game currently needs 13 minutes ago, MachineryMan said: You're just sensitive. I will be gentle with you. I don't mind how you choose to behave but you will probably not have the reaction of "haha" you expect so... just be prepared Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pether Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, minespatch said: Have you even been to the Griftlands side of the forums? Nope, it was Total War forum, Warhammer to be precise. If you posted positive feedback on the forum, half of users attacked you because everybdy knows the game is utter garbage and the developers have no idea what they are doing, better stop doing anything to the game because they can only destroy things. If you posted constructive criticism - the other half attacked you that all you can do is whine and cry. And when I asked what HW I need to play the game, all agreed that I shouldn't bother, because the game is so poorly optimized that no computer can handle it and the best I can do is never play the game again. LOL Since I stopped reading that forum my life become much brighter Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 47 minutes ago, pether said: Nope, it was Total War forum, Warhammer to be precise. If you posted positive feedback on the forum, half of users attacked you because everybdy knows the game is utter garbage and the developers have no idea what they are doing, better stop doing anything to the game because they can only destroy things. If you posted constructive criticism - the other half attacked you that all you can do is whine and cry. And when I asked what HW I need to play the game, all agreed that I shouldn't bother, because the game is so poorly optimized that no computer can handle it and the best I can do is never play the game again. LOL Since I stopped reading that forum my life become much brighter I just came from such a game forum - Ones fingers itch to write more in to such a forum, but the brain tells you "Dont do. Close it. Never go to that forum again, just forget it. Have a 20cmx20cmx100cm cheese sandwich instead". Sadly, a lot of game forums are like that - In most cases IMHO its down to the lack of moderation, lack of enforcing fairness policy and forum miss management. As soon a game has weapons and people can harm each other in a game, its IMHO 50-90% more likely to discover a toxic forum for such a game, compared to a non violent game title. ...but its also down to forum user veterans to protect the innocent, the fresh, the new ones and to be fair. Also its good if the developers are not distanced and detached from a forum. I was Producer at Crytek, so I know how much internal desaster and mess a big game studio can be. Originally I came from from a small games developer and was surprised to manage a studio which was/is run by fear and sometimes months long unpaid employees whilst the studio owners came along in their Ferraris every day. Anyways, without a nice and warm welcome back message @mathmanican I would have never started posting lots again, after having a long break from the game and the ONi forum. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 hours ago, sakura_sk said: I don't mind how you choose to behave but you will probably not have the reaction of "haha" you expect so... just be prepared Nah, I respect your opinion. If you don't like this kind of communication, then of course I will communicate correctly. I understand the difference between a joke and an insult. And if someone makes it clear that this kind of communication is unacceptable to them, I won't. 8 hours ago, pether said: If you posted positive feedback on the forum, half of users attacked you because everybdy knows the game is utter garbage and the developers have no idea what they are doing, better stop doing anything to the game because they can only destroy things. If you posted constructive criticism - the other half attacked you that all you can do is whine and cry. Well described. Any complex thing in microcosm. 7 hours ago, babba said: Sadly, a lot of game forums are like that - In most cases IMHO its down to the lack of moderation, lack of enforcing fairness policy and forum miss management. I hope fate has mercy on you to visit Russian forums. There's even a trick there. If you know a little bit about the subject, but you want to clarify some mechanics, don't ask. You'll be ignored. Instead, go in and write utter crap to immediately show how incompetent you are. Almost instantly people will rush in and explain to you in great detail how and what really works, with examples and links. As a side effect, they'll explain to you what an idiot you are, but this is irrelevant, since that's the effective role you came in with. Sometimes the side effect can last 6-10 pages before the contributors start fighting and arguing amongst themselves and posting really correct, useful information in the process, just sit back and wait. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pether Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, MachineryMan said: I hope fate has mercy on you to visit Russian forums. There's even a trick there. If you know a little bit about the subject, but you want to clarify some mechanics, don't ask. You'll be ignored. Instead, go in and write utter crap to immediately show how incompetent you are. Almost instantly people will rush in and explain to you in great detail how and what really works, with examples and links. As a side effect, they'll explain to you what an idiot you are, but this is irrelevant, since that's the effective role you came in with. Sometimes the side effect can last 6-10 pages before the contributors start fighting and arguing amongst themselves and posting really correct, useful information in the process, just sit back and wait. yeah, it's well known Dunnin-Krugger effect - it is more probable that people will correct your claim than answer your question about the topic Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, pether said: yeah, it's well known Dunnin-Krugger effect - it is more probable that people will correct your claim than answer your question about the topic Correcting people - Like with the grammar *azi`s How some people act in forum`s Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineryMan Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, pether said: yeah, it's well known Dunnin-Krugger effect - it is more probable that people will correct your claim than answer your question about the topic I'm not a cognitive scientist, but the Dunnin-Krugger effect seems to be when a person with low competence overestimates his understanding of a subject. And vice versa. The most appropriate cognitive bias is called "The Need for Confrontation," but this is a direct translation. What it is called in English, I do not know. But it's not that important. The point is that in Western forums there is no need for that. I can just ask a simple question and get a polite answer if I have made some effort before. Of course, there are exceptions everywhere. And I'm not even trying to say that it's better here than there. For example, I know that technical information (say, how to convert the electric motor of your Tesla to gasoline engine, or how to change the screen on your laptop with an industrial drill, two welding machines and a credit card) is better to look for on Russian forums. But gaming forums are just an endless battle for the title of the coolest anonymous person on the Internet. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/126964-thank-you-for-kleis-interaction-with-critical-players/#findComment-1428989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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