Wendy is to op

[Well-met]

52 minutes ago, Cuyote said:

why they should lower her stats again? give one reason at least dude

Search for other threads about the subject, there's plenty out there in General Discussion.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Cuyote said:

why they should lower her stats again? give one reason at least dude

You have an entire discussion here about it

[Mike23Ua]

Does Wendy’s petal damage buff apply to Beefalo? For me it seems like it take more attacks while riding the Beefalo to kill something then it would be to just dismount the Beef and slap it with a spear a few times.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Does Wendy’s petal damage buff apply to Beefalo? For me it seems like it take more attacks while riding the Beefalo to kill something then it would be to just dismount the Beef and slap it with a spear a few times.

Is applied for that a hornery beefalo is so danm good with her 

A regular beefalo has the same damage than the spear i think so it should kill faster than wendy since wendy have less damage  but i might be wrong 

[Cuyote]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:17 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

You have an entire discussion here about it

nice response there, such an interesting addition to your argument lmao

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Cuyote said:

nice response there, such an interesting addition to your argument lmao

atleast i give arguments

[ARquitectO]

Abigail should not be used as a tool to increase Wendy's attack rate,which makes Wendy stronger than most characters when fighting with bosses.

She should'nt perform so strongly fighting with both bosses and common monsters.

This is why Wendy is too OP.

[Terra B Welch]

How about we wait for the other reworks before we start crying for wendy nerfs?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Terra B Welch said:

How about we wait for the other reworks before we start crying for wendy nerfs?

klei is who decided when, if or what changes made but feedback doesnt hurt 

[Guille6785]

how about we don't nerf anyone because nerfs are never fun, especially not a character who's just wolfgang with less damage and no speed mult

[Mike23Ua]

Yooooo I’m here to drop a friendly reminder- People thought playing as Woodie after his Rework was Easy work too then this newest update came out where people are crying over the endless full moon phases.

Klei of all people knows what is and what isn’t best for their game.

Wendy gets her *** handed to her in the Forgotten Knowledges Biome where Geshalts and Nightmare monsters spawn endlessly- Abigail will NOT help Wendy fight shadows.

This means that any and all content revolving shadows is Wendy’s weak link.

Even TerrorClaw can be the undoing of Wendy if the player solely relies on Abigail 24/7 to attack things.

So to recap- Woodie now has to deal with Moonstorms.. and FIVE other highly OP characters have yet to have their reworks yet. 
 

For all anyone knows Webber’s Rework may Rework Wendy altogether (as in shes best friends with Webber and therefore slaughtering his family would be depressing)

Let Klei do their job before we judge what does and doesn’t need changing if they haven’t made adjustments to her after all this time it’s safe to assume that she’s balanced EXACTLY where Klei wants her right now.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Klei won't reconsider the nerfs since they've made a statement that reworks won't be nerfs, only character buffs. If we don't count the Wicker nerf... since she didn't get a rework yet

[Pig Princess]

Before I will write my opinion on Wendy, nessessity of nerf or absence of that, etc., I would like to emphasize the core of Wendy's strength: ability to micromanage Abigail's behaviour to keep her alive, being it soothing/riling up or summoning/unsummoming. Elixirs also help, but to lesser extent, and they won't help much if one is unable to effectively micromanage Abigail (such player just would run out of mouring glories because of constanly trying to heal Abigail or just waste materials on other potions because Abigail would die/kept in flower close to death - I saw it many times with my own eyes in action). On the other hand expert players can do a lot even if the only available tool for them is behaviour micromanagment.

Therefore question №1: what would happen, if developers nerf Wendy's stats (health suggestion seems to be most popular)?

My answer is: nothing to expert players (in hands of THAT people Wendy is so strong, core of Wendy's strength will be intact), but new players, who die a lot already (yes, even with Abigail, because they can't micromanage), would suffer more, keep in mind that these players can't utilize 600-hp Abigail because of that, and sisturn doesn't help them since they do the same mistakes and loose Abigail again; they don't use or quickly loose effect of potions because they lack knowledge of effective elixir usage. Do we want to make learning experience of new Wendy players harder? Is Wendy so ridiculously OP in their hands? Of course, Wendy's stats could be nerfed to not surpass particular important tresholds (which is comparable to adding new mechanic), such as 100 health (2 surprise terrorbeak attacks), 75 health (surprise debth worm attack, unarmored hit from most of the bosses), 123 health (full advantage of jellybeans outside of fight), 80 health (2 unarmored bishop attacks), but this would be copy of Maxwell's downside and mechanic, I feel like he is the one who should be "glass cannon" character. And it won't change absolutely anything for beefalo tamers, who play Wendy, still 1000 health for melee attacks (enemies with ranged attack are much rarer). Maximum hunger nerf would be straight copy of Wes and Walter's downside, and would be just annoying to expert players (who won't be challenged by that, honey ham/pierogi/jerky/etc. exist and we all know about raw honey), but that would discourage new players from learning efficient hunger-wise recipes (we already have meatballs cult). Reduce maximum sanity? that just would mean that 1 terrorbeak will be enough to surpass 20% treshold (instead of current 1 terrorbeak + second shadow), which will make Wendy easier. Also in terms of weapon durability/sanity gain ratio terrorbeaks are preferable to kill, so reduced necessity of fighing crawling horrors is also a buff. Make maximum sanity higher? Well, if that is a nerf you ask for... New players would be grateful.

Question №2: what would happen, if developers nerf Wendy's damage modifier and/or remove/reduce petal debuff effect?

Since core of Wendy's strength would still be intact, veteran players will be able to do all that spectacular things just fine, but will need to farm more resources. Which isn't difficult, that is just tedious; also Wendy will suffer from the same problem as pre-rework Wendy and Wes: "Why did you choose Wendy/Wes? She/he wastes weapon durability (total weapon damage)!". Again, that was fine in single player game, but not fine in multiplayer, since resources are common and limited, and fighting is huge part of the game. Fighting also includes bosses, and they are the biggest resource sink. Sure, Abigail does extra damage herself and has AoE, problem is it doesn't scale (so Wendy-Warly team would be at huge unnatural disadvantage), often amount of damage Abigail deals is negligible (effective 7.5 or 12.5 per hit during day or dusk, which isn't enough to compensate -17 from dark sword (and glass cutter now) or -18 from morning star, which would discourage players from using strong weapons), Wendy can't afford to use 24/7 nighttime damage potion on Abigail, and in DST there are no situations where player fights more than one >20 000 health mob sumultaneously, so in terms of damage calculations  AoE is useful only for small mobs, but for bosses single-target assumption-based calculations are good enough model. Insanity monsters are optional to fight, and Wendy fights them rarer (so in lesser amount) than anyone else due to 0.75 passive sanity drain, so no contradiction here, and Wes received durability buff not only for tools, but also for weapons, also he can store sanity in form of sanity baloons when he has ham bat, so that - intention to make characters not waste total weapon damage - is consistent from developers side.

Also other people mentioned it already, but petal debuff was added with the intention to make Wendy players to want work with Abigail, not watch how she fights alone and not fight without her. It is there to encourage Wendy and other players to include Abigail in their team. I'm not saying it's the best possible implementation of tool for mentioned above purpose, but it does it's job and that is what matters. If anyone has better suggestion how to encourage players to fight with Abigail, with that being practically efficient, for every team combination, when best possible solution wouldn't be not play Wendy - please write it. That being said, I do think that Wendy on beefalo should receive 10% damage boost, not 54%, for lore and balance reasons.

Question №3: what would happen, if developers nerf Abigail's ability to fight group of small mobs?

Congratulations, your next step is to remove Willow's fire immunity and make Bernie unable to help with any enemy, discourage Wormwood from taking care of seeds and plants, exclude merms from the list of possible followers and remove any fish buff Wurt receives (since it's too strong! running around with sunfish/ice bream is brain dead blablabla), remove Wickerbottom's books, give Maxwell passive sanity drain instead of gain, remove Woodie's ability to chop trees faster in any form, etc. In other words, that suggestion goes against designed purpose of Abigail, which was fighting groups of small mobs and was there since single player. Maybe developers changed their opinion on that, but looking at elixirs and shield addition I highly doubt that. Abigail was always good at dealing with hounds, spiders, bees. Right now with shield addition she is also capable to help multiple people with hounds and to not be overwhelmed, and if there are a lot of people (far more than 2), she will need elixir.

Also for spider loot bunnymen/spider farm can be set up by any character, bee boxes for honey (Deerclops (or maybe even Bearger?) for clearing bee biome), 50+ damage weapon (1 inventory slot, same for Abigail's flower) for hounds; it's not hard to do all of that, and those Wendies who just sit at base and wait for hound wave could as well use tooth traps and drain resources just the same. For those who are trying to become better at game, Abigail is one way (among many others) to live longer and see more content, be better prepared next time, etc (should I write about Wigfrid or Willow?). Wasn't that the point of characters to have upsides - to simplify one of the aspects survival, to aid in learning?

And last, but not least: in all that cases (except for №3 since there was a suggestion to nerf, but without any particular details): as long as ability to micromanage Abigail remains, Wendy's gameplay won't change, it may become tedious, even not worth it, but core of it will remain the same. It's possible to nerf Wendy to the extent that people won't pick her, is that what people here want? Let's assume developers added new character, with unique mechanics and all, but even after mastering them, after dozens of hours of gameplay it appears that resource-wise it's better to pick Wilson. Then why would anyone pick such character other than self-imposed challenge? Speaking of Wendy, to utilize her and Abigail efficiently, one needs to be really skilled, determined player, being expert, in fact. So why shouldn't such player be rewarded greatly for their skill and time investment? Isn't the whole point of game to feel reward for your efforts?

[Mike23Ua]

Honestly as a Wendy main I feel like the largest Nerf to Wendy should be in Beefalo- Mainly because the petal damage buff SHOULDN’T apply to them.. but at the exact same time NEITHER Should Wendy’s Damage Reduction Debuff when not using Abigail..

The BEEFALO is not WENDY- It Has its own Stamina & Health Bar & Strengths- Therefore it makes logical sense that Abigail damage buff would only assist players, not their mounts.

That is the ONLY Nerf I would give Wendy.. 

But as far as what was DONE to her goes: YOU GUYS BUFFED HER... there I said it.

And give me a second I’ll explain Why, Wendy’s Rework when it first came out she had fairly long & lengthy quests around the constant to help Pipspook find lost stuffs.

Players Whined that this was too time consuming so Klei reduced the distance between finding these that the feature is near non-existent now.

This was a GREAT Mechanic that balanced Abigails power by having Wendy players trek across the Constant- Not only did this ENCOURAGE Wendy players to stop sitting around base doing nothing- but it also helped get them out of their comfort zone by having them explore the map around them.

This feature (finding lost stuffs) is still in the game, but the DISTANCE between & amount of lost stuffs needing to be found was drastically reduced.

you want her nerfed... but yet you complain when the power she had.... was a rightful time sink to obtain.

Personally I enjoyed the longer quests for finding lost stuffs... I WISH Klei would revert it back.

[Well-met]

isn't it awkward that you would go out of your way to revive this thread assuming you don't want any change to happen to wendy? If I were you I would have kept this quiet.

thanks for the reminder I guess. every single good player knows wendy is busted and she needs a nerf. You can try pages over pages to prove she is fine but at the end of the day that'll never change facts.

[Yoskio]

Im sorry but i feel like this discussion is somewhat meaningless. One i highly doubt they will change wendy. Once they are done they’re done. They will rebalance new things but if they need to rework every rework they’ve done they wouldn’t add anything new
 

Two, Im sorry for everyone that calls themselves pro and think this is a hard game but it isnt. sure you die here and there but overall it isnt hard. They have turned one of the worst characters into something fun and enjoyable and now you want to ruin it and make it “harder”. Why do that when people enjoy her as she is now? Yes this is a survival game but also a sandbox. 
 

three these reworks were not just meant to adapt them into the multiplayer setting but to make a viable choice. They need to bring something unique. Before the rework she was horrible, one of the worst choices. You didn’t have fun, well now you do.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

44 minutes ago, Yoskio said:

if they need to rework every rework

changing few numbers isnt a rework

45 minutes ago, Yoskio said:

They have turned one of the worst characters into something fun and enjoyable and now you want to ruin it and make it “harder”

not harder, just not dumb. It will still fun, even more since wont be an afk killer since, i remember you, the re-rework with the petals buff was made to make both sister fight together instead of wendy dancing meanwhile abi just free farms hordes

[Dextops]

i don't want a nerf to wendy i just want her to be more fun and interesting because she is kinda just auto mode since she'll do a lot for you with no work needed at all

[Auhrer]

I personally never played Wendy, but I think it is good to have a character easy for beginners, if you want difficult characters there are already others, why change it if there are others? does not make sense

[Just-guy]

5 hours ago, Auhrer said:

I personally never played Wendy, but I think it is good to have a character easy for beginners, if you want difficult characters there are already others, why change it if there are others? does not make sense

Wendy can be a bad example for beginners for not learning how to handle mob hordes. If anything, Wilson should be the character for beginners because he doesn't have any drawbacks or upsides, aside for his beard, which gives new players the knowledge of how the game works and eventually know how to deal with it without the need of a perk that other characthers have.

It's not about difficulty, it's about balance, other characters have drawbacks to their perks which often means having to change the playstyle, for example Wigfrid only eats meat but her perk of gaining sanity and health when fighting helps her hunting and recover sanity and health for eating raw or monster meat in case of emergency but the drawback remains as she is not able to eat vegetable foods that can be beneficial; WX-78 starts with low stats and needs gears to get an upgrade, gears are necessary for an ice box that prevents food for spoiling and loose it's nutritional value but WX-78 has a perk that allows them to eat stale and spoiled food with the nutritional value as if it was fresh, giving the player the option to choose between either building an Ice Box to make food last longer or upgrade WX-78 and search for more gears.

In the case of Wendy her only drawback is the damage penalty and because of Abigail dealing with mobs is a very weak drawback.

[Auhrer]

12 horas atrás, Just-guy disse:

Wendy pode ser um mau exemplo para iniciantes por não aprender a lidar com hordas de máfia. Na verdade, Wilson deve ser o personagem dos iniciantes porque ele não tem desvantagens ou vantagens, além da barba, que dá aos novos jogadores o conhecimento de como o jogo funciona e eventualmente saberão como lidar com ele sem a necessidade de um vantagem que outros personagens têm.

Não se trata de dificuldade, trata-se de equilíbrio, outros personagens têm desvantagens em suas vantagens, o que muitas vezes significa que mudar o estilo de jogo, por exemplo, Wigfrid só vem carne, mas sua vantagem de ganhar sanidade e saúde quando a luta a ajuda a caçar e recuperar a sanidade e a saúde para comer carne crua ou monstro em caso de emergência, mas a desvantagem remanescente, pois ela não pode comer alimentos vegetais que podem ser benéficos;O WX-78 começa com estatísticas e precisa de engrenagens para obter um upgrade. As engrenagens são necessárias para uma caixa de gelo que evita que a comida estrague e perca seu valor nutricional, mas o WX-78 tem uma vantagem que permite comer comida estragada e estragada com o valor nutricional como se fosse fresco, dando ao jogador a opção de escolher entre construir uma caixa de gelo para fazer a comida durar mais ou atualizar o WX-78 e procurar por mais engrenagens.

No caso de Wendy, sua única desvantagem é uma penalidade de dano e por causa de Abigail lidar com mobs é uma desvantagem muito fraca.

WX doesn't start with low statistics, it starts with statistics just like the other characters.
You talk about characters being OP or not having a handicap but WX has no handicap.
Taking rain damage is so low that it's not even a disadvantage, it doesn't affect anything.
Making an ice box is easy using only 1 gear, and in the game you get 30+ gears and are useless without serving anything, except to eat with WX 78.

[W0l0l0]

Here's a cruel idea: for every 1 damage Abigail takes, and every 10 damage her shield absorbs, Wendy loses 1 sanity. Muhahaha. This would probably be a terrible balancing. 

[Just-guy]

26 minutes ago, Auhrer said:

WX doesn't start with low statistics, it starts with statistics just like the other characters.
You talk about characters being OP or not having a handicap but WX has no handicap.
Taking rain damage is so low that it's not even a disadvantage, it doesn't affect anything.
Making an ice box is easy using only 1 gear, and in the game you get 30+ gears and are useless without serving anything, except to eat with WX 78.

The low initial stats and being damaged by water are WX-78's drawbacks, just because you just see the drawbacks as anything doesn't mean they aren't.

150 in all stats is low compared to other characters that are low in one stat but higher in other, like high health but low sanity, viceversa and other combinations (Wes being the exception).

Water damage can be a problem for WX-78 in case of sudden rain, especially during spring if a lightining doesn't strike them.

Gears are a scarce resource in early game and having tents of them is more of late game.

I would go back at my statement about Wendy drawback, it's easier killing mobs while playing as her because Abigail but when it comes to bosses she is at disadvantage because some bosses can damage Abigail very quickly and have AoE attacks that damage both Wendy and Abigail, and this is where her damage of attack is noticeable, but is still a weak drawback compared to other characters perks and penalties.

Now this is a thread about Wendy, if someone wants to talk about how WX-78 is OP it should be on a different topic.

[Auhrer]

I just think that Klei should look at forgotten and little played characters, like Wurt, his temperature was not to decrease when he was wet, if he gets wet he cools and takes freeze damage, that shouldn't happen.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Just-guy said:

150 in all stats is low compared to other characters that are low in one stat but higher in other, like high health but low sanity, viceversa and other combinations (Wes being the exception).

are default stats, not low. In single player he has low stats (100 each) to compensate how op stats he get but, for some stupid reason (probably pvp) klei increased it to 150 but lowered the boost for each gear

wx has no drawbacks. Losing few hp for being wet is nothing when you can only be wet few days per year and butterflies exist to heal the little damage taken

and for this, wendy, wx, wolfgang and wickerbottom arent as interesting as they could. Their drawbacks doesnt change the gameplay, they feel like stronger wilsons