Difficulty Choices added to DST good idea bad idea?

[AllFunNGamez]

3 minutes ago, RatherAzure said:

Strangely enough, I think I do have a grasp on how new players fee when playing DST. I've been spending more of my time in new players' streams. The first guy managed to get all the way down to a science machine before dying to a fire because it hadn't occured to him that fire spreads from tree to tree. He went and isolated the fire next time.

The game is very well designed. And I mean very. It's written in a way to guide the player, subtly towards a self assigned goal.

Yeah that is why DST is so great I was just thinking of possibly a way to help those who might not have the patience. But I understand that the game is meant for those who are willing to take the time to improve and get better and not give up so early. It just sucks seeing them avoid the game all together after because of a few lost lives.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I think you have to take a step back and look at how new players feel when playing DST and that is something that a lot of us players who have many of hours in the game forget

i remember pretty well how i laughted every time i die when i start playing this franchise

players are getting used to save points and non difficulty at all in most games of this days

[AllFunNGamez]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i remember pretty well how i laughted every time i die when i start playing this franchise

Same.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, AllFunNGamez said:

Same.

it was what made me love this game

also, i think the world settings is more than enough, recently a friend told me that he started playing the game with other guys but they are playing with less hounds and short winters so i dont see why there should be more difficulty dropping when there is already (ofc can be improved because the world settings kinda sucks but for this things works very well)

[AllFunNGamez]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

it was what made me love this game

also, i think the world settings is more than enough, recently a friend told me that he started playing the game with other guys but they are playing with less hounds and short winters so i dont see why there should be more difficulty dropping when there is already (ofc can be improved because the world settings kinda sucks but for this things works very well)

I guess I went all over the place maybe just some sort of feature where if you pressed Easy/Medium/Hard/Insane it auto did the change to the hounds etc for you that way new players who have no idea what the list is and I understand it has pictures lol but some might look at a pig and go wow those guys are cute and then they spawn in as webber and get punched in the face. But anyways I understand the bigger majority feels the game is fine the way it is. Good to know. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I guess I went all over the place maybe just some sort of feature where if you pressed Easy/Medium/Hard/Insane it auto did the change to the hounds etc for you that way new players who have no idea what the list is and I understand it has pictures lol but some might look at a pig and go wow those guys are cute and then they spawn in as webber and get punched in the face. But anyways I understand the bigger majority feels the game is fine the way it is. Good to know. 

premade config will be good like the one we have to play the classing map or lights out

that weeber, after that punch in the face, will learn to dont get close to a pig like everything in the game

[WoodieMain45684]

Alright, real talk, from what I can see, most of the difficulty for new players actually comes from a lack of knowledge, so if there were an easy difficulty, what exactly would it be able to do? In DS, where a lot of gatekeeper mobs such as giants and clockworks have like 1/3 or 1/2 their hp those new players still struggle.

A tutorial on how to get good at the game is more believable to me, which happens to also be the reason why guide videos on youtube for DS/T tend to accumulate so many views (at least in my opinion). Adding an ingame version would just circumvent the players taking the time to look it up.

[HowlVoid]

I like this idea but only if we establish the current default settings as easy mode.

The game isn't really that hard if you think about it. Everything, except maybe bishops, can be sidestepped and avoided. Getting food is also not really an issue, especially after reap what you sow. Every year can be leisurely enjoyed and the player has the choice to completely avoid combat if they so choose. Endless mode exists. 

The game is a learning experience, too much handholding and we'll no longer be able to call it don't starve.

However, a more difficult experience after conquering fuelweaver is something I can get aboard with. Blizzards, shadow fueled bosses, moon powered bosses,etc with equal rewards for overcoming difficult odds. Kinda like hardmode in terraria after killing the wall of flesh.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, WoodieMain45684 said:

Alright, real talk, from what I can see, most of the difficulty for new players actually comes from a lack of knowledge, so if there were an easy difficulty, what exactly would it be able to do? In DS, where a lot of gatekeeper mobs such as giants and clockworks have like 1/3 or 1/2 their hp those new players still struggle.

A tutorial on how to get good at the game is more believable to me, which happens to also be the reason why guide videos on youtube for DS/T tend to accumulate so many views (at least in my opinion). Adding an ingame version would just circumvent the players taking the time to look it up.

but the lack of knowledge and how you learn is the essence of the game also, as others already said, tutorials worked pretty bad for this game

if the game tells you how to kill stuff or plant veggies to get food it cuts tons of hours of fun

lets be honest, the game, when you learn the basics, drops it difficulty a lot and that can be boring for a lot of players because they will not know what to do next since they are already surviving

[AllFunNGamez]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

I like this idea but only if we establish the current default settings as easy mode.

The game isn't really that hard if you think about it. Everything, except maybe bishops, can be sidestepped and avoided. Getting food is also not really an issue, especially after reap what you sow. Every year can be leisurely enjoyed and the player has the choice to completely avoid combat if they so choose. Endless mode exists. 

The game is a learning experience, too much handholding and we'll no longer be able to call it don't starve.

However, a more difficult experience after conquering fuelweaver is something I can get aboard with. Blizzards, shadow fueled bosses, moon powered bosses,etc with equal rewards for overcoming difficult odds. Kinda like hardmode in terraria after killing the wall of flesh.

Exactly what I am getting at I would love to see the game get harder after Killing the Fuel Weaver!

[Maybe a dog]

Regardless of the idea of a tutorial or easy mode, there is one thing they could do to make it more welcoming to newer players. World settings should be a bit clearer in-game on what they do. You shouldnt need to go to the wiki to know what world settings do.

Some are pretty straightforward (season length, resource amounts, etc). But then you have misleading ones like Dragonfly's and Antlion's "More", branching, looping, etc. A friend still insists "Looping" means that reaching the edge of the map will teleport you to the opposite one, despite me telling him a bunch of times its not that (he insists the game is bugged when we try sailing through it :P).

[RoughCactus69]

Agreed. I've always wanted an expert mode for DST. (Like Terraria) 

Sadly no. It's not like I can just turn up the settings, I can only turn down. Consoles don't allow those type of settings. I think the idea is great. Like increased both health and more enemies (FOR CONSOLE ALSO!)

[AllFunNGamez]

1 minute ago, RoughCactus69 said:

Agreed. I've always wanted an expert mode for DST. (Like Terraria) 

Sadly no. It's not like I can just turn up the settings, I can only turn down. Consoles don't allow those type of settings. I think the idea is great. Like increased both health and more enemies (FOR CONSOLE ALSO!)

I would love more options for console players I mean I would love crossplay but you know that is a true dream.

[RoughCactus69]

1 minute ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I would love more options for console players I mean I would love crossplay but you know that is a true dream.

Indeed! I completely agree. Also, do you stream? I'm pretty sure I'm subscribed to you on YT. 

[AllFunNGamez]

1 minute ago, RoughCactus69 said:

Indeed! I completely agree. Also, do you stream? I'm pretty sure I'm subscribed to you on YT. 

I do yeah! That is sorta the main reason why I wanted to see everyone's opinion because I always hear people coming into my stream saying " Do you play with viewers? I do not have anyone to play with and I find it so hard to survive alone" I have heard this countless times. So I just wanted to see what the Dev's might have to say regarding it and the community.

[RoughCactus69]

3 minutes ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I do yeah! That is sorta the main reason why I wanted to see everyone's opinion because I always hear people coming into my stream saying " Do you play with viewers? I do not have anyone to play with and I find it so hard to survive alone" I have heard this countless times. So I just wanted to see what the Dev's might have to say regarding it and the community.

I would be down to play with you, and I'm positive you play on PS. If you want to play, hit me up on PS.

PSN: RoughCactus69

Sincerely,

Cactus

[pyroisshy]

There should be a Newgame+ or hard mode, but anyone who wants the game to be easier probably is already using extra equip slots and refreshing food ice box mods.

[AllFunNGamez]

1 minute ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I would be down to play with you, and I'm positive you play on PS. If you want to play, hit me up on PS.

PSN: RoughCactus69

Sincerely,

Cactus

Ahh I actually play on PC! But if I did play on Playstation I would totally play with you I always love playing with new people!

[Owlrust]

I wouldn't hate a specially made "tutorial world" where people can survive in a very small restricted world for an elapsed amount of days with text prompts showing you basic things such as digging up plants, chopping trees, crafting, fighting, surviving seasons, and more within 5-10 days that advance when tasks are completed instead of normal time progression; even showing tidbits of all four seasons to get them aquainted.

The first day for example, could focus on what day, dusk and night are and provide a few examples of the many options you have to combat the darkness. The second day could teach you about food and hunger, with an explanation of how to put ingredients in a crockpot and so forth.

Other than that, an easy or hard mode could simply be what restrictions are put in world generation; with easy having no swamp or many hostile mobs and hard having access to everything.

[wigfrids hat]

so ngl, any time i see someone say the the game is too hard(and especially when they say it is too easy) it just looks like they never learned how to actually set up a world. world gen settings ARE the game's difficulty settings and if the game is too easy or too hard for someone it is because they are playing on the wrong difficulty and should go adjust some settings

as for making things easier for newbies? i think it would be great if two things were done, first if the game is being run for the very first time there is a glowing, pulsing or otherwise noticeable highlighting over the forest and cave tabs to encourage people to click them AND when you hover over the toggles in each there is a clear and concise explanation of what said toggle does when it is changed to more or less. it would encourage players to experiment and possibly educate people on how to help themselves since it is a very common problem i see floating around on the forums

[Mike23Ua]

Difficulty choice really boils down to one thing: how much or how little of something you toggle on/off more/less of and it’s something that I would like to have a ton of control over.... that Klei for one reason or another refuses to give me.

Here are just a few examples of how to improve difficulty by just adding a few simple toggles to the games World Generation settings-

Ability to choose rather or not players can heal from eating food items, ability to choose if people can even craft tools like Razor or BirdCage, you guys aren’t realizing the overall size and scope of what simple toggles like that would do:

Without a Razor you couldn’t shave Beefalo for Wool so you’d actually have to kill them to obtain their Wool. 

Without a BirdCage you couldn’t feed a bird raw meat for eggs which means to obtain eggs in game you’d have to get them from enemy mobs that have eggs (tallbird, Pengull, SW Snakes if added etc..)

Without food items healing people, they actually have to rely on the healing items crafting tab.. 

Being able to choose if 95% of your map is Lunar Island variant & 5% what were used to..

Choosing rather or not the pig king set piece spawns at all..

Or if enemies that look like they SHOULD Inflict poison (spider Warrior, Poison Birchnut) can inflict poison..

And a “Harder Difficulty Mode” would really just boil down to Klei’s own personal preference of World Gen Presets for it.

[NSAiswatchingus]

1 hour ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I agree good games do not need to be dumbed down. But they also need to grow and I feel like in order for DST to welcome those new players would it really make you hate DST if they gave an option for EASY mode for new players?

What do you mean by grow? Wider player base? More active player base? More brand recognition? How "good" a piece of art is shouldn't be affected by how many people know about it. 

I wouldn't hate DST if an easy mode was added, but I certainly wouldn't agree with it and think their DST experience would be sub par to the one we had. 

1 hour ago, AllFunNGamez said:

Generally speaking every time I have played a game that offered easy mode I only chose that for the beginning and knew I eventually had to try the harder difficulty after. Also I think that having the game get harder as it goes on gives a whole new light to DST as well. 

Every new game I go for Normal difficulty because that's the default experience the developers prepared. I always figured Easy was if someone was new to video games in general. 

DST's difficulty does start low and increase as you go on. Easy mode is Autumn. You're met with a knowledge and skill check called Winter/Deerclops. Each season brings new challenges to master and you're encouraged to tackle the bosses while managing your survival. The game design of DST is superb at putting players through a natural progression system with giving a single direction. 

[Chesmu]

There is an obsession going on these days, the obsession of making everything Challenging; Sure, it makes you look cool and tough to always look for challenge, however only in real life; Games are like music, you can't just have a single genre of music in the world and listen to it, because a lot of people don't like that genre at first, and a lot will get burned out, which is why we have all the different genres to choose form based on our mood, time, energy, and target!

What happening with Streamers is, they just like to try the game firsthand and actually fail, so it makes their video interesting and gives viewer a reason to talk in the chat and stuff, and some of the Streamers like to go "Never Fail" route because of having thousands of hours in it.

The difficulty of Don't Starve Together is not based on gamemodes, but in experience and your brain image of the DST world and how it works, so it will always require a "Get to know" period.

Btw there is already some sort of difficulty choosing system, you can choose from "Social", "Madness", etc.

[Terry_Rosario]

I think a difficulty system would be a waste of time.

I have recently introduced a lot of friends to the game (A LOT) and I think the biggest problem with the game is just not having a basic tutorial
It's that easy, with some text boxes would be enough, something like
"hey winter is coming remember to make some preparations" , "why not take a look at some objects in survival" or in summer something like "structures can catch fire in summer" simple things that guide people, this is Dont starve Together, no Dont starve, here you don't gain anything by dying other than bothering the other players and being a burden,affecting how you feel as a player and therefore your experience in the game.

The greatest burden for this game is precisely that, that not everyone is going to take the time to learn by this method, especially in the highly competitive world of video games.

[MP98]

I understand the concern, but I agree that DS/DST is supposed to be uncompromising. But even then, you have the option to change the settings very fluidly, roll back, and just restart and make better decisions.

It's a game where you are rewarded for your mistakes, as long as you're willing to learn from them.

Remember metheous puzzles and carter puzzles? Yeah, that's the vibe this game gives me.

If you get stuck and don't know how to fix a situation after many trials, there's always wiki's, discussions, great people who stream the game on Twitch, like you and many others, who people come in and ask questions. It's always fun when people learn from other advanced players.