sakura_sk Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 After new engines were added, I started testing what exactly that "weird" info of burden, potential range/1kg fuel, power and speed mean when constructing a rocket. As I mentioned before, my experience in ONI tells me : the more hours of play, the more clear everything gets. Although some things still seem unclear about rockets...I thought I could share a "cheat sheet" of my testing of rocket engines and what their numbers mean to me (at last!) because at first "burden, fuel, speed, tiles/cycle" were just there to confuse me. Maybe someone else could "clear" these numbers even more. [No Earthly Resin update 452242 ] [testing branch update 452481] I sorted engines into three categories based on their fuel: gas, solid, liquid. Below you can see how much fuel+oxidizer is needed to reach the max range of the combination as well as the resulting speed (tiles/cycle) if you add solo spacefarer nosecone (s.s.n) or spacefarer module and basic nosecone (s.m.+b.n.) for each oxidizer. Results: Fastest smallest rocket Spoiler Faster rocket using a spacefarer module Spoiler Slowest of the slow engines ever Spoiler Until [update 449549 ] below Spoiler To make my "calculations" shorter, I shortened the names of modules Spoiler Sugar Engine (SuE), Carbon Dioxide Engine (CDE), Steam Engine (StE), Small Petroleum Engine (SPE), Petroleum Engine (PE), Small Solid Oxidizer Tank (SSOT), ), Large Solid Oxidizer Tank (LSOT), Large Liquid Fuel Tank (LLFT), Solo Spacefarer Nosecone (SSN), Spacefarer Module (SM), Basic Nosecone (BN) 1-7 of every engine's info table consists of engine's information before build, 8-9 is information after building an engine to travel at least 1 tile with a solo spacefarer module So ... here is my data: 1.Sugar engine: Spoiler In order to burn sucrose you need oxidizer. Options are either oxylite or fertilizer So we have: a. SuE+ SSOT= 450kg sucrose+225-400kg oxylite=range 4 tile, speed 2.4, burden 5 b. SuE+SSOT= 450kg sucrose+450kg fertilizer= range 4 tiles, speed 2.4, burden 5 -no command module put Putting the two different command modules on top we have: SuE+ SSOT+ SSN= 450kg sucrose+225kg oxylite=range 4 tiles, speed 1.5, burden 8 (+2 extra modules) SuE+ SSOT+ SSN= 450kg sucrose+450kg fertilizer=range 4 tiles, speed 1.5, burden 8 (+2 extra modules) SuE+ SSOT+ SM+ BN=450kg sucrose+225kg oxylite=range 4 tiles, speed 0.9, burden 13 (+1 extra module) SuE+ SSOT+ SM+ BN=450kg sucrose+450kg fertilizer=range 4 tiles, speed 0.9, burden 13 (+1 extra module) Having a Solo Spacefarer Nosecone we can add 2 more modules (penalty in speed depending to burden) while having a Spacefarer Module + Base Nosecone we can add 1 more module [For some reason I can't load less than 450kg of sucrose using an auto-sweeper even if I set storage to 0 and then built auto-sweeper. It seems it can't even make a request to unload the extra sucrose by dupe hands.] Last update (447728) added more engines, larger oxidizer tank and liquid fuel tank. That changed the range of sugar engine too. SuE+ LSOT+ LLFT+ SSN= 450kg sucrose+1351kg oxylite+900kg liquid sucrose=range 9 tiles, speed 0.8, burden 16 [448769] No more liquid fuel to whatever engine 2.Carbon Dioxide Engine: Spoiler No oxidizer needed so it's a simpler setup a. CDE+ SSN= 100kg CO2= range 4 tiles, speed 3.3, burden 6 (+1 extra module) b. CDE+ SM+ BN= 100kg CO2= range 4 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 11 (+0 extra modules) There is only one spare module in -a- case so ... using a large liquid fuel tank you "could" put more fuel c. CDE+ LLFT+ SSN= 100kg CO2+900kg liquid CO2= range 40 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 11 [448769] Nope! None of that either New engines (update 447728 testing branch) 3.Steam engine: Spoiler No oxidizer needed a. StE + SSN = 150kg steam= range 6 tiles, speed 0.9, burden 7 b. StE + SM +BN= 150kg steam= range 6 tiles, speed 0.5, burden 12 That means you can have more range than a CDE rocket but it will take more than double the time to reach destination Like any other engine it can take a large liquid fuel tank. Fuel is simply water but engine power makes steam engine powerful and powerless at the same time. c. StE + LLFT+ SSN = 150kg steam+ 900kg water= range 42 tiles, speed 0,5, burden 12 StE + 2 LLFT+ SSN = 150kg steam+ 1800kg water= range 78 tiles, speed 0,4, burden 17 StE + 3 LLFT+ SSN = 150kg steam+ 2700kg water= range 114 tiles, speed 0.3, burden 22 StE + 4 LLFT+ SSN = 150kg steam+ 3600kg water= range 150 tiles, speed 0.2, burden 27 d. StE+ LLFT + SM +BN= 150kg steam+ 900kg water= range 42 tiles, speed 0.4, burden 17 StE+ 2 LLFT + SM +BN= 150kg steam+ 900kg water= range 78 tiles, speed 0.3, burden 22 StE+ 3 LLFT + SM +BN= 150kg steam+ 2700kg water= range 114 tiles, speed 0.2, burden 27 [448769] No more infinite flying with water... Pity... 4.Small petroleum engine: Spoiler Petroleum needs oxidizer to work. So we could build: a. SPE+ SSOT+ SSN = 450kg petroleum +225kg oxylite= range 6 tiles, speed 2,7, burden 10 (+1 extra module) b. SPE+ SSOT+ SSN = 450kg petroleum +450kg fertilizer= range 6 tiles, speed 2,7, burden 10 (+1 extra module) c. SPE+ SSOT+ SM+ BN =450kg petroleum +225kg oxylite= range 6 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 15 (0 extra modules) d. SPE+ SSOT+ SM+ BN =450kg petroleum + 450kg fertilizer= range 6 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 15 (0 extra modules) Using large tanks range could go crazy less crazy e. SPE+ LLFT+ SSOT+ SSN= 900kg petroleum+ 450kg oxylite = range 12 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 15 (0 extra modules) f. SPE+ LLFT+ LSOT+ SSN= 1350kg petroleum+ 450kg oxylite = range 18 tiles, speed 1.5, burden 17 (0 extra modules) g. SPE+ LLFT+ LSOT+ SSN= 1350kg petroleum+ 900kg fertilizer = range 18 tiles, speed 1.5, burden 17 (0 extra modules) But solo spacefarer nosecone destroys any plans to go far enough... Tile range is more reasonable now [448769] for Solo Spacefarer Nosecone. Also, for some reason putting more fuel than oxidizer to reach further works ONLY for Small Petroleum Engine.. 5.Petroleum Engine: Spoiler Like small p.engine, petroleum needs oxidizer to work so build would look like this: (I didn't bother with fertilizer for this) fertilizer is great now (1:1 ratio)! But I only wrote one calculation using it to save some space. a. PE+ LLFT + SSOT + SSN = 900kg petroleum + 450kg oxylite= range 6 tiles, speed 2.6, burden 16 (+3 extra modules) b. PE+ LLFT + 2 SSOT + SSN = 900kg petroleum + 900kg fertilizer= range 6 tiles, speed 2.3, burden 18 (+2 extra modules) c. PE+ 2 LLFT + 2 SSOT + SSN = 1800kg petroleum + 900kg oxylite= range 12 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 23 (+1 extra module) d. PE+ 2 LLFT + LSOT + SSN = 1800kg petroleum + 900kg oxylite= range 12 tiles, speed 1.8, burden 24 (+2 extra modules) e. PE+ 3 LLFT + SSOT+ LSOT + SSN = 2700kg petroleum + 1350kg oxylite= range 18 tiles, speed 1.4, burden 26 (0 extra modules) f. PE+ LLFT + SSOT + SM+BN =900kg petroleum + 450kg oxylite = range 6 tiles, speed 2.0, burden 21 (+2 extra modules) g. PE+ 2 LLFT + 2 SSOT + SM+BN = 1800kg petroleum + 900kg oxylite= range 12 tiles, speed 1.5, burden 28 (0 extra modules) e. PE+ 2 LLFT + LSOT + SM+BN = 1800kg petroleum + 900kg oxylite= range 12 tiles, speed 1.4, burden 29 (+1 extra module) Conclusions: Spoiler Oxylite is better oxidizer than fertilizer having a ration of 2:1 (fuel:oxylite) while fertilizer is 1:1 (fuel:fertilizer). [Liquid Oxygen is 4:1 but we can't put anywhere liquid oxygen at the moment [449549]] Burden and power are connected and together show speed in tiles/cycle. Speed = power / burden (Speed of rocket = engine power / sum burden of all modules added). You can build more modules than the engine can handle (engine power < sum burden) but rocket needs more than 1 cycle to move to another tile (speed < 1 tile/cycle) Speed as shown in engine info before constructing it, only shows "potential" speed if calculating only the burden of engine (engine launching by its own..?) Potential range/1kg fuel I have noooo idea what this indicates. It seems you could calculate range for gas fueled engines (CDE : 0.04*100 = 4 range, StE: 0.04*150= 6 range) but not solid or liquid fueled ones. (SuE: 0.19*450 = 85,5, SPE: 0.12*450=54, PE: 0.25*900=225) So, how you could calculate range for the other 3 engines is a mystery to me... You can use liquid fuel tank to [petroleum engines] any engine although I don't think you would want to. Adding liquid fuel leads to extreme, ridiculous ranges raising the question "is it a bug, an exploit or a feature?" but... *[update [448769] happened] Would you want to fill a rocket with liquid sucrose? Going to the trouble to melt sucrose (185.9 C) just to travel 6 more tiles and taking 7.2 cycles to reach destination. I wouldn't think so... But that's an option now. It sounds great having a range of 40 tile for Carbon Dioxide Engine but good luck stabilizing a liquid CO2 tank and liquefy 900kg of CO2 (at least "I" find it really difficult) Would you like your dupes spending 750 (!) cycles to reach a 150 tiles destination inside a solo spacefarer nosecone pushed by a Steam Engine? Even having one liquid fuel tank you need 2.5 cycles to move one tile (StE+ LLFT + SM +BN build =more space to survive) Small Petroleum engine sounds the best compared to the 3 previous ones good but Solo Spacefarer Nosecone is less preferable for that distance (only 4 modules per engine) As for the Petroleum Engine, one con is that it... is... HUGE! You will need 32-33 tiles tall spare space to build a rocket to have its max range of 18 tiles (meaning to land and being able to return from a planetoid 9 tiles afar) Also... These two rockets can travel the same distance but the small one is faster.... Ok... SPE: range 6 tiles, speed 2,7, burden 10 - PE: range 6 tiles, speed 2.6, burden 16 I can't understand why Petroleum Engine has no storage capacity (in DLC I mean... Base game makes more sense ). At the moment, the large petroleum engine is worse than the small one...? *most of the above (until update 449549) are still valid. Use at your own risk I hope I can put more/update information as engines change/more engines come by. If anything is missing/is wrong please notify me to make a correction. [update 448769] [update 449549] [update 452481] Updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGuga Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 wow, thanks for that! Amazing info! I promise I will try a liquid CO2 machine and post here if it is viable, if it still works after today's update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 19 hours ago, MrGuga said: I promise I will try a liquid CO2 machine and post here if it is viable, if it still works after today's update. Nope! Sorry... no more liquid fuel shenanigans to any engine Update [448769] "fixed" that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Update 452481 updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilcat19xx Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 They should increase the max modules for most of the rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said: They should increase the max modules for most of the rockets. I don't think it's so simple... Increasing max modules means decreasing rocket speed = more cycles traveling. Increasing engine power to avoid decreasing rocket speed if more modules are added, would probably make some combinations overpowering. I still think that petroleum and hydrogen engines would benefit having storage capacity like other engines. I'll wait to see what Klei will come up with. Maybe an engine that will glow..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrex042 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 It's slow AF, but I have to wonder if there aren't some niche uses for the Steam engine given the large number of available modules. Putting a Large Gas Cargo tank w/ Spacefarer and Nosecone leaves you space for two more modules and gives you (potentially) a 42-tile long-haul route between asteroids with Rocket Platforms (The LGCT can hypothetically refill the Steam Engine seven times if you put down on a platform and refill). You can probably manage a fairly high-morale module for one dupe to live in basically forever and just have him make laps around the cluster, shipping whatever needs shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaIV Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 nuke rockets just what a dupe needs well till your base glows in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageLeague Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Pyrex042 said: It's slow AF, but I have to wonder if there aren't some niche uses for the Steam engine given the large number of available modules. Putting a Large Gas Cargo tank w/ Spacefarer and Nosecone leaves you space for two more modules and gives you (potentially) a 42-tile long-haul route between asteroids with Rocket Platforms (The LGCT can hypothetically refill the Steam Engine seven times if you put down on a platform and refill). You can probably manage a fairly high-morale module for one dupe to live in basically forever and just have him make laps around the cluster, shipping whatever needs shipped. It can fit 6 modules total, with 1 engine, 1 spacefarer+nosecone, and 3 other modules. While it is really slow, it's the only engine that allows you to have 3 other modules other than the base necessities. Even hydrogen engine doesn't do that. You can use it as a super cargo rocket that can automatically deliver solids and liquids between the home asteroid and the nuclear asteroid. There's a lot of good resources on the nuclear asteroid like free wild arbor tree(for ethanol production), the ocean biome with free lettuce and poke shell, and the aluminum and gold volcano, so that may be worth it. Plus there's uranium and other radioactive good stuff, but they do nothing right now and you can't even store it. Oh it also produces 600W while in-flight, so that may be appealing. Plus, a long flight time means more time to get more Joules from the 600W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I don`t currently see a need for that much power inside the rocket. What do we fit there that needs 600W? Currently with a gas module full of oxygen we can live for a long time off just 60W for the gas input fitting and another 60 for a small pump getting rid of CO2, both of which don`t operate constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrex042 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 The heat would be enough to be a problem, but with a couple batteries you could give your space-trucker-dupe a sun lamp and a beach chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 hours ago, sakura_sk said: I don't think it's so simple... Increasing max modules means decreasing rocket speed = more cycles traveling. Increasing engine power to avoid decreasing rocket speed if more modules are added, would probably make some combinations overpowering. I still think that petroleum and hydrogen engines would benefit having storage capacity like other engines. I'll wait to see what Klei will come up with. Maybe an engine that will glow..? I find the biggest rockets, with massive payload, moving 1 cm upwards at liftoff and ejecting glowing lava are the greatest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilcat19xx Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 6 hours ago, sakura_sk said: Increasing max modules means decreasing rocket speed = more cycles traveling. That is a great trade-off. If a player prefers safer space travel, they should be able to add more modules with the cost of prolonging the travel time.It doesn't make sense to see dupes wetting their pants because we can't afford a lavatory in the solo spacefarer nosecone. 6 hours ago, sakura_sk said: I'll wait to see what Klei will come up with. Maybe an engine that will glow..? After the last update, I would not surprise to see new live rockets asking for Morb sacrifices to operate . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 6 hours ago, evilcat19xx said: After the last update, I would not surprise to see new live rockets asking for Morb sacrifices to operate Large squid propelling through space using its tentacle power. Planet of origin: Water planet (salt water planet..?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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