SPOM & Main Grid Automation

[TripLykely]

Since I haven't seen this, but have watched the main ONI YT videos, I figured I'd share a tweak on the popular Full Rodriguez SPOM setup. The general design should be familiar to most, however if not, it's one you should become familiar with. A SPOM is one of the first contraptions you will build that utilizes shape/area in addition to more beginner friendly mechanics. The FR setup is popular because you can build it fairly early and have it support your colony for a long time as it generates 3kg/sec of 02.

This setup utilizes my cooling loop - which covers my entire base (mini base mod at cycle 387) - and solves an early game issue with SPOMs; what to do with excess hydrogen? I've never been happy with the setups I've seen pumping into tanks, infinite storage, burning it off, etc. And in addition to jumpstarting the device, sometimes an issue arises that cuts off hydrogen production requiring another jumpstart.

For this I've come up with this system that feeds power back onto your main grid as allowed, draws if needed, while fitting nicely in the standard dimensions of the FR. It will burn any excess hydrogen so this automation is best suited for when your base has sufficient power needs Hydrogen can easily be routed to storage prior; once I put down NG gens I set this up. Materials don't matter too much as temperatures are kept in check. The shift plates aren't needed but makes it  bit better at controlling/synergizing O2 & H2O temps - slowly improving as I go - and of course you can optimize more with high end materials. (living base, sorry for stray NG line and disregard conductive wire on left as its unrelated, broader picture for context, hopefully this is novel enough for a topic beaten to death)

• Hydrogen Atmo - above 250
• Oxygen Atmo - above 450
• Filter - 5 sec (default)
• Smart Bat - 90/60
• Both gas sensors hydrogen

[Yunru]

50 minutes ago, TripLykely said:

A SPOM is one of the first contraptions you will build that utilizes shape/area in addition to more beginner friendly mechanics.

Fun fact: Never built a SPOM. 

Too inefficient a water to oxygen ratio, and dealing with the heat? No thanks. 

[TripLykely]

1 hour ago, Yunru said:

Fun fact: Never built a SPOM. 

Too inefficient a water to oxygen ratio, and dealing with the heat? No thanks. 

Nice, although as I’m sure you’re aware, that’s probably atypical play

I’ve never worried to much about water efficiency as it tends to be abundant but there’s something to be said about that.

Also, heat isn’t much of an issue with planning, as I mentioned this setup uses one cooling loop with turbine AT for my industry, O2, and living area.

From my perspective, early stockpile of hydrogen for rocketry plus extra power is worth it all. Curious what you normally do for O2?

[avc15]

34 minutes ago, TripLykely said:

Nice, although as I’m sure you’re aware, that’s probably atypical play

spoms are a bit out of favor, actually, the spom itself is atypical play anymore. Setups that use liquid separation, open-air oxygen, infinite-storage or pumped-storage hydrogen, or corner switching, use a lot less power and don't delete mass. And, there are versions free of advanced mechanics too, if you don't like liquid separation and corner switching.

I don't remember exactly what he said, but even QuQuasar (the creator of the spom) spoke out against it in one of his threads; it was just an experiment, he never meant to encourage people that this was an ideal way to build an oxygen system.

It's a teaching construct.
 

Now. Interesting system. See what you can do to make your system the simplest & most efficient it can be. I suggest you will find that an open-air system saves a lot of power, can be built on lower tech, and doesn't take as long to build.

[TripLykely]

48 minutes ago, avc15 said:

spoms are a bit out of favor, actually, the spom itself is atypical play anymore. Setups that use liquid separation, open-air oxygen, infinite-storage or pumped-storage hydrogen, or corner switching, use a lot less power and don't delete mass. And, there are versions free of advanced mechanics too, if you don't like liquid separation and corner switching.

I don't remember exactly what he said, but even QuQuasar (the creator of the spom) spoke out against it in one of his threads; it was just an experiment, he never meant to encourage people that this was an ideal way to build an oxygen system.

It's a teaching construct.
 

Now. Interesting system. See what you can do to make your system the simplest & most efficient it can be. I suggest you will find that an open-air system saves a lot of power, can be built on lower tech, and doesn't take as long to build.

Fair enough, that’s two in a row

I’m certainly new to the forums and have really only watched YT vids so any real discussion on the game I’ve never seen. I’ll try searching for info on the concepts you mention.

The SPOM certainly is just one example of near infinite contraptions one can make and not some end all be all. Engineering symmetry into my designs is part of why I’ve always liked it, didn’t realize I was all but alone still using one

[avc15]

you're not "all but alone" just.... think of it like a stepping stone 

[Steve8]

2 minutes ago, TripLykely said:

I’ll try searching for info on the concepts you mention.

You don't have to. The "experts" want you to use all kinds of weird mechanics and exploits and most things that use normal, intuitive mechanics are dismissed out of hand. But you can play however you want. The goal doesn't have to be to use the the most efficient thing if you just want to have fun and focus on other aspects of the game

That said, open electrolyzers work pretty well. You can collect the hydrogen from the top. Or let it collect there for later use if you have dug out enough space.  Long term a cooling loop through the base is usually needed anyways. So you can use that to cool the hot oxygen instead.

[avc15]

11 minutes ago, Steve8 said:

The "experts" want you to use all kinds of weird mechanics and exploits

No I don't. That's an unfair characterization.

You can find in my post history for instance an ultra low-tech and tiny spot-O2 generator that also does heat recovery. No advanced mechanics at all, which I believe you are referring to as "exploits". The bigger relevant points here are that pumping O2 uses more power than the rest of the entire system combined (so don't), and (2) there are multiple ways to avoid deleting mass which also improves efficiency.

And, if understanding and using fluid mechanics is an 'exploit', well, that's just your opinion. But, I won't go any farther into that discussion than to express disagreement. You don't need to use infinite storage, corner switching, or liquid separation, to get a build that's much smaller/lower tech/ and more efficient than a spom.

[TripLykely]

I think you both hit the joy of ONI in different ways, so many different solutions to problems it’s near endless. And the new DLC takes it up from what I’ve seen. We all prioritize different things when tackling a problem, I didn’t share this because it’s the best just something I hadn’t seen. It does look like I overestimated how many people use a SPOM (then again small sample size, and I’ve seen very beginner questions posted). Personally I probably value aesthetics more than some as I rarely do hard math on my systems unless I’ve prioritized throughput or something. I’ll dig through your posts @avc15 unless you can link it easier.

[Nxf7]

2 minutes ago, TripLykely said:

didn’t realize I was all but alone still using one

The active posters on this forum will be the most hardcore players. Even then, everything those first two people said can be refuted.

"Too inefficient a water to oxygen ratio" this is not the thread to promote alternatives to electrolyzers, and you're implying a 12% loss is a big deal?

And some other talk about power inefficiency of spoms due to pumping o2; pumping o2 is required if the electrolysers are too far away from high traffic areas in combination with too many dupes. Unless if you're ok with hyper-pressurising o2 to well over the eardrum pop level in a large radius around the electros just so o2 can reach everywhere necessary.

Also funny that it's implied that pumping o2 is non-meta, when it seems popular to perma-suit dupes.

[TripLykely]

10 minutes ago, Nxf7 said:

The active posters on this forum will be the most hardcore players. Even then, everything those first two people said can be refuted.

"Too inefficient a water to oxygen ratio" this is not the thread to promote alternatives to electrolyzers, and you're implying a 12% loss is a big deal?

And some other talk about power inefficiency of spoms due to pumping o2; pumping o2 is required if the electrolysers are too far away from high traffic areas in combination with too many dupes. Unless if you're ok with hyper-pressurising o2 to well over the eardrum pop level in a large radius around the electros just so o2 can reach everywhere necessary.

Also funny that it's implied that pumping o2 is non-meta, when it seems popular to perma-suit dupes.

It makes sense about hardcore and active forum users going hand in hand, you have to like a game to talk about it online. And naturally given the type of game ONI is you're going to have purists who place primary focus on efficiency and utilizing advanced mechanics - which I too find very fun. What is interesting is that because of all of the various interactions it's quite possible you may not even be aware of something obvious to others. Like when I read meteors followed a schedule and you could use water clocks to track it. Since I'm doing mini base until DLC early access I'm still toying with how to automate bunker doors without scanners. I've gotten close but it's tricky with the various time/distances. Not every number of cycles is easily divisible into g/sec without constantly changing clocks. Its probably been done but I read a bit about it and have it as a project to work on as I play. Part of how I enjoy the game when I'm not getting OCD symmetry/aesthetics. 

For what its worth, this system is still being tweaked, as I will need to bump up O2 production to take on more dupes and have limited water with the mini base mod. Initially instead of metal tiles under the SPOM I had airflow tiles so it would flow as needed pumping it to further away parts of the base. I ended up getting CO2 in my atmo suits a few times and switched to metal tiles keeping it a locked room. The gases flow between my main living base and utiliity/industry area and I've had good success keeping a consistent temp nearly everywhere with gases where they should be. My only issue is hot regolith/cargo - I've started getting a bit toasty as my previous setup didn't account for all that mass/heat. All in all my goal of a full synergistic base requiring no interaction is getting closer and closer. Since my last rock didn't have any source of wolframite I stalled out late game, thankfully this one has 2. 

 

[avc15]

@TripLykely I didn't link any of my builds because most of them aren't that interesting, and the others are designed for something very specific. I did some interesting builds that use the difference in heat capacities from input & output, with counter flow heat recovery, to delete a lot of heat (it takes an A/T but at low utilization, like 10% or so). I also did some super minimalist builds that illustrate an open-air O2 system is actually very power positive (not just self powering, actually, reducing the fuel you use in your base's power plant by a huge amount).

I never really perfected either design, they both had some minor technical difficulties. They were just proofs of concept.

There is definitely a major .... paradox on this forum. People wander in and share ideas, it's great, and they should. But I've seen that before, so here's a suggestion: ---- and it goes down a rabbit hole into perceived, like, gaslighting or bad faith or something. Hard to share information without someone feeling personally criticized, or getting mired in the same tired old arguments.

And, this is a forum of engineers. We are all analysts, there are plenty of language barriers and personality disorders represented. If I can be a little self deprecating. But I think it's a little bit all around.

[TripLykely]

@avc15 Gotcha, misunderstood what you meant with an earlier reply. All this talk does have me thinking about jumping into sandbox to play around and do some math. 

[TripLykely]

Foolish mistake on my part, didn't really notice until paying more attention after posting. Added an 'and gate' to better control the power shutoffs. Works as intended now.

[Urist McPilot]

8 hours ago, Yunru said:

Fun fact: Never built a SPOM.

Just out of curiosity: what exactly do you call a SPOM? Do you mean that you never built an electrolyzer powered by a hydrogen generator, or something more specific?

[nakomaru]

SPOM means self powering oxygen module. The hydrogen is used to power the rest of the system by definition. Not so great if you value hydrogen highly.

[TripLykely]

1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

SPOM means self powering oxygen module. The hydrogen is used to power the rest of the system by definition. Not so great if you value hydrogen highly.

Another aspect I like about this - and that I’ll be tweaking when I get into liquid hydrogen - is that this SPOM plugs in and out of the grid via automation so I can simply route all hydrogen elsewhere/to storage and have no issues with O2 production.

[Urist McPilot]

I know what a SPOM is, I'm just curious where do you draw the line. Never build a hydrogen generator to conserve hydrogen? Is running the whole base on hydrogen power (e.g. for super sustainable achievement) and using 10% of the power to run the electrolyzer(s) while collecting excess hydrogen considered a SPOM? A fully isolated oxygen-producing module can be optimized to produce quite much extra power or hydrogen, is letting that go to waste is what defines the SPOM? (ok, I see I might be a bit too philosophical here )

[Yunru]

13 hours ago, TripLykely said:

Curious what you normally do for O2?

If it's a world with plentiful algae, I usually never move beyond Algae Terrariums and Deodorizers.

If there's no way to get more algae, or algae is low, I'll bum-rush a MOGOM.

2 hours ago, Urist McPilot said:

I'm just curious where do you draw the line.

Personally, it has to be self-powered by the own products it creates, the excess can be used for whatever.

[TripLykely]

2 hours ago, Yunru said:

If it's a world with plentiful algae, I usually never move beyond Algae Terrariums and Deodorizers.

If there's no way to get more algae, or algae is low, I'll bum-rush a MOGOM.

Personally, it has to be self-powered by the own products it creates, the excess can be used for whatever.

Right on, saw your link on desktop but can’t see it now. My clay farm is somewhat based on that and subsidizes my SPOM setup. 

[Yunru]

I'm especially proud of how simple the latest iteration is:

 

[TripLykely]

3 hours ago, Yunru said:

I'm especially proud of how simple the latest iteration is:

 

You have to love it’s low tech elegance. Definitely will be using this in addition to all the new mechanics Dec 8

[thegroundbelow]

So what does MOGOM stand for? I've seen the acronym used a whole bunch but have never seen anyone include the long-form name.

[nakomaru]

Manual Off-Gassing Oxygen Module. Basically, oxygen production by bottling polluted water. Has a great benefit in mopping varieties that train dupe strength to 20.

[psusi]

I don't understand how one can not use a SPOM.  Yea, algae terrariums and letting the PH20 off gas works fine for quite a while, but eventually you start having problems with gas mixing and flow to high consumption areas.  Plus hydrogen is a great power source.  Open electrolyzers?  Please... you waste cooling capacity cooling the hydrogen before you finally pump it and have all kinds of gas mixing and flow issues, and have to have electrolyzers, water pipes to supply them, and cooling pipes all over hell's half acre.  Much nicer to just build a coolrod spom, get free power, plenty of clean oxygen piped out all over the base to wherever it's needed, even during high usage spikes, and you need only very little spot cooling beyond the cold oxygen.  And are you really worried about the power spent on a few gas pumps?  I usually have more power than I know what to do with.

I also absolutely love @Gamers Handbook's transformer flipper power grid, so all of my generators, including the hydrogen ones in the SPOM feed power directly to the main ( no heavy watt wire ) grid.  The heat the generators produce is absorbed by the hydrogen and deleted by the generators.  The oxygen needs minimal cooling from a ST+AT.  Excess hydrogen builds up in an infinite storage for use in rockets.