The Starver's Guide to Self-Feeding Farms

[ToxicStunky]

1 minute ago, QuartzBeam said:

Yeah, let me rephrase that: a tile can hold 100 points of each nutrient. One Manure (the item) gives 8 points of the nutrient of the same name. But other fertilizers give different values (1 arrow = 8 points, 2 arrows = 16 points, 3 arrows = 24 points, 4 arrows = 32 points), so it doesn't really make sense to try to define a tile's nutrient capacity in terms of the fertilizer items. It is needlessly confusing.

I see it as less confusing. Sorry for the missunderstanding, but I like talking more with arrows.

I have one idea I'll like some feedback. Because of how easy is to get manure I thought if you used a field for random seeds to then put 10 arrows of manure, plant 10 potatoes, wait until they have a flower and then put 10 more arrows of manure and now just add some manure after everything is done and the field should be fertile. If you want an automatic one just plant 6 potatoes and put 12 arrows of manure

[QuartzBeam]

1 minute ago, ToxicStunky said:

I see it as less confusing. Sorry for the missunderstanding, but I like talking more with arrows.

Seeing it in terms of arrows makes sense too.

It's just that nutrients have the same name as the fertilizers that provide these nutrients usually, which can be confusing to read. For example, one can interpret "12 manure" as either "12 points of the manure nutrient" or "12 instances of the manure item" or "12 arrows' worth of manure nutrient", which are all very different things.

And someone who is new to farming could come in and read get the wrong idea from "a tile can hold 12 manure". And we don't want that now, do we? :P
 

[ToxicStunky]

12 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Seeing it in terms of arrows makes sense too.

It's just that nutrients have the same name as the fertilizers that provide these nutrients usually, which can be confusing to read. For example, one can interpret "12 manure" as either "12 points of the manure nutrient" or "12 instances of the manure item" or "12 arrows' worth of manure nutrient", which are all very different things.

And someone who is new to farming could come in and read get the wrong idea from "a tile can hold 12 manure". And we don't want that now, do we? :P
 

well that kinda happened to me when I heard it could hold 100. I thought it meant it'll hold 100 arrows and made me think that the potatoes consumed two arrows per grow stage at first. 

12 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Seeing it in terms of arrows makes sense too.

It's just that nutrients have the same name as the fertilizers that provide these nutrients usually, which can be confusing to read. For example, one can interpret "12 manure" as either "12 points of the manure nutrient" or "12 instances of the manure item" or "12 arrows' worth of manure nutrient", which are all very different things.

And someone who is new to farming could come in and read get the wrong idea from "a tile can hold 12 manure". And we don't want that now, do we? :P
 

Thanks for the explanation. You got any other tips? I even tried to make an excel sheet with crop combinations for each month.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but winter you need potatoes, asparagus and pumpkin or carrots right? like you plant those 3 to balance and that's all you plant?

Also in your type B example cause it's just one square you can plant 10 crops instead of just 8 and that way it's balanced

[BeeClops]

just here for an extra thank you, i've solely relied on your guide to get all my giants crops, worked like a charm. You da man.

[rezecib]

@QuartzBeam Really cool work. I noticed that there's also the potential for 1:2:2 combinations of crops (pair one +4/-8 with two +2/-4 crops. With 3x3 limit per tile this isn't a great option, but technically you can fit 16, or 10 if you avoid overcrowding; 1:2:2 divides nicely into 10. The only other nutrient ratio that works with 10 is a 5-crop setup, which you can double up.

  

In game demonstration of the spacing (the 5 crop one at the bottom in particular relies on very exact spacing, tilling has to be spaced by 1.25, and each set of four plants has to be within 4 of each other, so that only allows for an error of 0.25 across a row, otherwise 2-4 won't be close enough for the family bonus):

I did this with Geometric Placement, snapping the grid to the middle of the border between the two tiles and placing one grid point away.

Viable crop combos, listing crop #1 first (did this by hand, but should be easy to adapt some of the existing code to verify):

• Spring: Dragonfruit, Carrot, Corn/Asparagus
• Spring: Durian/Garlic, Carrot, Potato/Eggplant
• Autumn: Garlic, Carrot/Pumpkin, Potato/Eggplant
• Winter: Garlic, Carrot/Pumpkin, Potato
• Autumn: Onion, Corn, Potato/Eggplant
• Spring: Onion/Pomegranate, Corn/Asparagus, Potato/Eggplant
• Autumn: Pepper, Carrot/Pumpkin, Corn 

The crop combos for the 2x 5-crop combos should be the same as the 5-crop ones listed in lakhnish_monster's doc.

Edit: Initially posted this with 2x2 tile layouts that relied on 4x4 spacing within each, which is not actually possible; 4x4 spacing prevents adjacent tiles from using 4x4. Oops.

[ToxicStunky]

8 hours ago, rezecib said:

@QuartzBeam Really cool work. I noticed that there's also the potential for 1:2:2 combinations of crops (pair one +4/-8 with two +2/-4 crops. With 3x3 limit per tile this isn't a great option, but technically you can fit 16, or 10 if you avoid overcrowding; 1:2:2 divides nicely into 10. The only other nutrient ratio that works with 10 is a 5-crop setup, which you can double up.

  

In game demonstration of the spacing (the 5 crop one at the bottom in particular relies on very exact spacing, tilling has to be spaced by 1.25, and each set of four plants has to be within 4 of each other, so that only allows for an error of 0.25 across a row, otherwise 2-4 won't be close enough for the family bonus):

I did this with Geometric Placement, snapping the grid to the middle of the border between the two tiles and placing one grid point away.

Viable crop combos, listing crop #1 first (did this by hand, but should be easy to adapt some of the existing code to verify):

• Spring: Dragonfruit, Carrot, Corn/Asparagus
• Spring: Durian/Garlic, Carrot, Potato/Eggplant
• Autumn: Garlic, Carrot/Pumpkin, Potato/Eggplant
• Winter: Garlic, Carrot/Pumpkin, Potato
• Autumn: Onion, Corn, Potato/Eggplant
• Spring: Onion/Pomegranate, Corn/Asparagus, Potato/Eggplant
• Autumn: Pepper, Carrot/Pumpkin, Corn 

The crop combos for the 2x 5-crop combos should be the same as the 5-crop ones listed in lakhnish_monster's doc.

Edit: Initially posted this with 2x2 tile layouts that relied on 4x4 spacing within each, which is not actually possible; 4x4 spacing prevents adjacent tiles from using 4x4. Oops.

Thanks a lot. You can also do it with the snapping tills mod instead of geometric placement. I thought this wasn't possible and you just opened new crop combinations for me. 

I made a sheet with my crop combination ideas. I separated them for seasons and put how many plots you needed. If the plots are on red it means it only works with that amount. For example 5 potatoes and 5 tomatoes can only be planted in one plot if you have 1 or 2 plots as with 4 plots you can only plant 4 and 4

Crops.xlsx

[rezecib]

I suppose the 1:1 combos also work with 10. You can use a hex grid to make it look nicer, for example:

This layout should be extendable horizontally but not vertically (because the 4 rows will prevent 4 rows from fitting on tiles above/below).

[Mime]

This is prob my most valuable forum post at the moment... thank you!

[JazzyGames]

17 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

Yeah, let me rephrase that: a tile can hold 100 points of each nutrient. One Manure (the item) gives 8 points of the nutrient of the same name. But other fertilizers give different values (1 arrow = 8 points, 2 arrows = 16 points, 3 arrows = 24 points, 4 arrows = 32 points), so it doesn't really make sense to try to define a tile's nutrient capacity in terms of the fertilizer items. It is needlessly confusing.

I would love to know where this 100 nutrient cap exists in the code. Searched all over for it.

[Hornete]

Just now, JazzyGames said:

I would love to know where this 100 nutrient cap exists in the code. Searched all over for it.

function self:AddTileNutrients(x, y, nutrient1, nutrient2, nutrient3)
    local _n1, _n2, _n3 = self:GetTileNutrients(x, y)
    self:SetTileNutrients(x, y, math.clamp(_n1 + nutrient1, 0, 100), math.clamp(_n2 + nutrient2, 0, 100), math.clamp(_n3 + nutrient3, 0, 100))
	return true
end

In this function in the components/farming_manager.lua file.

The third value in the math.clamp calls are the max values that can be returned.

[loopuleasa]

10 hours ago, rezecib said:

I suppose the 1:1 combos also work with 10. You can use a hex grid to make it look nicer, for example:

This layout should be extendable horizontally but not vertically (because the 4 rows will prevent 4 rows from fitting on tiles above/below).

I was doing the 10 crops like so

XXXX

XXXX

- XX -

-  Empty row -

[JazzyGames]

16 hours ago, Hornete said:

function self:AddTileNutrients(x, y, nutrient1, nutrient2, nutrient3)
    local _n1, _n2, _n3 = self:GetTileNutrients(x, y)
    self:SetTileNutrients(x, y, math.clamp(_n1 + nutrient1, 0, 100), math.clamp(_n2 + nutrient2, 0, 100), math.clamp(_n3 + nutrient3, 0, 100))
	return true
end

In this function in the components/farming_manager.lua file.

The third value in the math.clamp calls are the max values that can be returned.

Ok, thanks. I saw that line of code but didn't know how to read it. Much appreciated.

[SnoByrd]

Thanks for putting so much work into this. It's super helpful.

[Bronzebot]

 

I've been experimenting with various combinations, trying to achieve the following:

• 2x2 sized farm plots
• Nutrient balance/self-sustainability
• Family bonus
• Giant crops
• Use of all crops every year
• No 2 same crops in different seasons (no repeating of crops)

After much trial and error, I found that these layouts worked the best for me:

As for the summer & winter layout, I wanted to have 12 plants of 3 crops for a maximum of 36, but achieving the family bonus and nutrient balance in each tile proved exceedingly difficult (maybe even impossible) because of the outer corners. Getting rid of the corners allowed for a layout that works, albeit with fewer plants.

[Nyr]

Hello !

Thank you for this subject, very informative !
Let me share my (modest) work about self-sufficient farming, with crop combinations and placement. It's quite simple as it is intended to teach my DST friends about the new farming update. It may won't add much to what all of you did, but maybe you'll find few ideas

 

Veggies combos (seasons, nutrients)

Here is the summary I did about 2-veggies and 3-veggies combos. Since most of the vegetables are available with 1-1 and 1-1-1 ratios (and since I wanted to keep it simple for my friends, especially with placements afters) I didn't considered the more complex ratios like some of you did.

 

Seeds disposition on the tile

For my part I focused on the minimum space needed to grow my 2 or 3 vegetables combos --> as 1x1 is too small for 3-veggies combos, it's 2x1 tiles then. The 2x2 configurations give me so much food that it's often a waste...

I work too with the "Snapping tills" mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2302837868).
In my 2x1 field, it allows me to draw a 4x7 grid (kinda strange, the middle raw among 7 looks just in the middle of the two tiles. Since I don't know to which tile the crop and nutrients count in this middle raw, I prefer to keep it empty). Thus, I use a 4x3 + 4x3 grid, one on each tile.

Here is two the best dispositions I have :
1/ Perfect nutrient neutrality, but 2 of the 18 crops are not giant
2/ Perfect giant crops (20/20), but as there are 1 more type-3 crops on each tile, it requires a little bit of the corresponding fertilizer.

 

 

Result

A simple example of the Garlic/Onion/Pepper combo, with my disposition 2 (requires 4x8=32 compost units = 1,33 compost item for each tile).

[ToxicStunky]

37 minutes ago, Nyr said:

Hello !

Thank you for this subject, very informative !
Let me share my (modest) work about self-sufficient farming, with crop combinations and placement. It's quite simple as it is intended to teach my DST friends about the new farming update. It may won't add much to what all of you did, but maybe you'll find few ideas

 

Veggies combos (seasons, nutrients)

Here is the summary I did about 2-veggies and 3-veggies combos. Since most of the vegetables are available with 1-1 and 1-1-1 ratios (and since I wanted to keep it simple for my friends, especially with placements afters) I didn't considered the more complex ratios like some of you did.

 

Seeds disposition on the tile

For my part I focused on the minimum space needed to grow my 2 or 3 vegetables combos --> as 1x1 is too small for 3-veggies combos, it's 2x1 tiles then. The 2x2 configurations give me so much food that it's often a waste...

I work too with the "Snapping tills" mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2302837868).
In my 2x1 field, it allows me to draw a 4x7 grid (kinda strange, the middle raw among 7 looks just in the middle of the two tiles. Since I don't know to which tile the crop and nutrients count in this middle raw, I prefer to keep it empty). Thus, I use a 4x3 + 4x3 grid, one on each tile.

Here is two the best dispositions I have :
1/ Perfect nutrient neutrality, but 2 of the 18 crops are not giant
2/ Perfect giant crops (20/20), but as there are 1 more type-3 crops on each tile, it requires a little bit of the corresponding fertilizer.

 

 

Result

A simple example of the Garlic/Onion/Pepper combo, with my disposition 2 (requires 4x8=32 compost units = 1,33 compost item for each tile).

I also made a list of combinations. The combination you're showing could work if you do a rotation. Like you go garlic, pepper, onion. So first garlic get's 4, then pepper and then onion and the soil should balance. Other options could be just planting 3 of each or planting just 2 of them and then planting 8 crops that consume 2 in order to balance it

7 hours ago, Bronzebot said:

 

I've been experimenting with various combinations, trying to achieve the following:

• 2x2 sized farm plots
• Nutrient balance/self-sustainability
• Family bonus
• Giant crops
• Use of all crops every year
• No 2 same crops in different seasons (no repeating of crops)

After much trial and error, I found that these layouts worked the best for me:

As for the summer & winter layout, I wanted to have 12 plants of 3 crops for a maximum of 36, but achieving the family bonus and nutrient balance in each tile proved exceedingly difficult (maybe even impossible) because of the outer corners. Getting rid of the corners allowed for a layout that works, albeit with fewer plants.

I think this would be better for winter

[Bronzebot]

34 minutes ago, ToxicStunky said:

I think this would be better for winter

This was one of the first layouts I tried, but the crops in the horizontal lines at the very front and back misses out on the family bonus. Lines of 4 crops in a row are too long for the family bonus, instead one has to make more compact shapes like "squares" or "L's".

[ToxicStunky]

36 minutes ago, Bronzebot said:

This was one of the first layouts I tried, but the crops in the horizontal lines at the very front and back misses out on the family bonus. Lines of 4 crops in a row are too long for the family bonus, instead one has to make more compact shapes like "squares" or "L's".

but you see it did got the family bonus. Are you using the snapping tills mod? If you till soil with it they should be close enough like mines

[Bronzebot]

17 minutes ago, ToxicStunky said:

but you see it did got the family bonus. Are you using the snapping tills mod? If you till soil with it they should be close enough like mines

I'm not using any mods when I play the game, not even client-side ones. It would make sense that a placement mod would allow more compact planting, although that makes your layout only achievable using mods, which is a bummer.

Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

[ToxicStunky]

57 minutes ago, Bronzebot said:

I'm not using any mods when I play the game, not even client-side ones. It would make sense that a placement mod would allow more compact planting, although that makes your layout only achievable using mods, which is a bummer.

Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

Well is a client mod so I can use it at any server so I don't see the problem with it

[Bronzebot]

6 hours ago, ToxicStunky said:

Well is a client mod so I can use it at any server so I don't see the problem with it

 

The problem with it would be that your layouts are unavailable for non-modded pc players as well as all console players, and that's a lot of people.

Using a client-side mod this way could also be considered an exploit, if the intentions are not just to make perfect geometry but rather to get normally unattainable yields from farming. 
I get that client-side mods like geometric placement, minimap, gesture wheel & status announcement are all intended for convenience & quality of life purposes. But, if you're using a mod to achieve something like the "4-in-a-row family bonus" (which is very likely unintended by game design), it would be, at least in my eyes, an exploit.

[Dechou]

13 hours ago, Bronzebot said:

 

The problem with it would be that your layouts are unavailable for non-modded pc players as well as all console players, and that's a lot of people.

Using a client-side mod this way could also be considered an exploit, if the intentions are not just to make perfect geometry but rather to get normally unattainable yields from farming. 
I get that client-side mods like geometric placement, minimap, gesture wheel & status announcement are all intended for convenience & quality of life purposes. But, if you're using a mod to achieve something like the "4-in-a-row family bonus" (which is very likely unintended by game design), it would be, at least in my eyes, an exploit.

The mod does not allow anything you cannot achieve without it. Problem is, your margin is 1/16 of a tile for your 4 crops, wich means you need to be annoyingly accurate using your hoe. The mod only removes the accuracy factor, you can still do it by yourself if you take the time and make sure it's tight enough.

[Bronzebot]

5 hours ago, Dechou said:

The mod does not allow anything you cannot achieve without it. Problem is, your margin is 1/16 of a tile for your 4 crops, wich means you need to be annoyingly accurate using your hoe. The mod only removes the accuracy factor, you can still do it by yourself if you take the time and make sure it's tight enough.

I stand corrected.

I read Zarklord's statement on the subject and am now aware that it is indeed possible yet difficult to achieve without mods. It does leave me wondering as to why something within this new farming rework was left "intentionally" to be this gruelingly hard. I would prefer if it was either easier to achieve or simply impossible, rather than having this strange middle ground.

[Aknott]

Hi QuartzBeam,

I thought it would be nice to summarize your guide, so i launched photoshop and 11 hours later, here we go!

Err, i don't do this very often... probably the last time...

Hope you like it, and that it will help some players.

Edit : uploaded new version after taking some screenshots!

 

[QuartzBeam]

13 hours ago, Aknott said:

Hi QuartzBeam,

I thought it would be nice to summarize your guide, so i launched photoshop and 11 hours later, here we go!

Err, i don't do this very often... probably the last time...

Hope you like it, and that it will help some players.

Edit : uploaded new version after taking some screenshots!

 

Damn, that looks amazing. So much easier on the eyes than my plain text.

Thank you. Must have taken quite a bit of time. I don't suppose you mind if I put this in the OP?