Willow lighter chapter 2

[Nikki Darks]

Yet another Willow's lighter post I'm making, because I play Willow.... Just that this time I want to hear everyone's opinions on why Willow's lighter should or shouldn't have infinite durability again.

I want to know what would we so horrid and game ruining about her lighter having an actual niche of being an infinite light source. 

I'll just commit broken record and just repeat all of my opinions as a Willow main.

#1 - Willow right now is very close to being perfect. She's a character whose personality is unique and showcases her oddball character perfectly. She's a goofy, immature, irresponsible young woman who is also a pyromaniac, which is just very, VERY cool in my opinion and I have no complaints about her quotes/personality.

#2 - Bernie is the aspect of Willow that is either hated or loved, no in between.
From what I've seen, people hate it because it takes the spotlight away from Willow's pyromaniac character, as if Klei is trying to force us to ignore about her being a pyromaniac because fire bad DUH. 
And then on the other hand people love Bernie because they took the already existing Bernie and gave him some more love, he used to be a punching bag only used to protect any player from insanity and turned him into this badass teddy hulk who fights everything in its way to protect Willow.

Now, in my personal opinion... I love the new Bernie, I love how they made his existence more "personal" by making him only become teddy hulk when Willow herself is fully insane, to protect Willow. And I LOVE that, I absolutely love how much personality and life this breathes into Willow's story/character.... But...

 

#3 - Willow's character perks (excluding Bernie/lighter) are iffy.... She is immune to fire and that's amazing, not much I can say other than "amazing". It's what the playerbase wanted, so good.

Her being able to extinguish smoldering faster is nonsensical. Willow (this is not my suggestion, full props go to CorruptiestWood for thinking of this one) should LOSE sanity for extinguishing the fire she loves so much...
She even has a quote that indicates her disdain towards putting out fires, similar to how Wormwood doesn't like digging up or chopping plants.

Willow gaining less insulation from winter gear is just... Non existent, this change absolutely affects Willow in no way, especially since can just light stuff on fire during winter and stand in said fire to gain warmth to fuel her thermal stone. It COULD be cool if she got like, no insulation from winter gear but that's a topic of its own.

Sanity regen from fire is fine, nothing I'd change there. Perfect.

Taking more damage from freezing and losing sanity from freezing is a cool perk, I'll admit. BUT. It's non existent IMO, lemme explain.

If you start freezing, you can just light ANYTHING on fire as Willow and stand in it, 3 seconds later and you're not freezing, if not even just one second depending on the fire. This WOULD be a good downside if she still had the insanity freezing perk, you'd lose temperature from being insane and then you'd take more damage and lose more sanity.

Her passive summer insulation and resistance to overheating is perfect, I've nothing to say about this. It's rad and I think it's great.

Willow loses and gains 10% more sanity. It's perfect, I've nothing to say about a flavour perk. It's a way to showcase her being mentally unstable sorta, it's nice.

And now

#4 - Her lighter. Her lighter is an item that Klei has avoided making infinite for many reasons they don't want to explain nor reveal. Her lighter being infinite, would not make Willow OP, even though newer players think it would, but we shouldn't really listen to newer players.

Her lighter was one of her signature things, it was part of her very good character design in DS. And now it's a running joke of the game, it's borderline useless.

Being able to cook on it is great and all, but why not just have an infinite lighter that you can cook on, it would be a well deserved buff/qol change for Willow that also wouldn't make her all that much better, and certainly not OP.

It's an item that was a staple part of her character in DS and it was removed for God knows what reason, I assume it's PVP/Griefing, but who knows, as far as I know Klei didn't bother telling us the reasoning during the Willow refresh sooo.... It's all up for assumption.

So like, if y'all could leave your opinions about why you think she should or shouldn't have her infinite lighter back please share. 

And it'd be very nice if Klei actually bothered to explain to us why, it'd be nice to explain to your community why you removed one of the least problematic things in the game, especially when torches exist.   Ty in advance.






 

[Starlogy]

I think the lighter being infinite only if Willow herself was using it would be fine. Still take durability from it if you use it to cook, but just holding it wouldn't take durability.

[Ohan]

i agree with most of what u said and i would also really appreciate an infinite lighter because once i craft a lantern i still like to keep a lighter on me for cooking or emergencies/set stuff on fire and itd be nice if it was just infinite and i didnt have to worry about it running out of fuel. 

29 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

should LOSE sanity for extinguishing the fire she loves so much...

this im not 100% on board with. yes willow loves fire but im pretty sure she wouldnt want her crockpots or chests etc burning to a crisp either :P. i interpret this perk as a reflection of her expertise with fire, she can start them and end them whenever she wants. 

33 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

This WOULD be a good downside if she still had the insanity freezing perk, you'd lose temperature from being insane and then you'd take more damage and lose more sanity.

although i think this old downside fit willow very well thematically it would be horrible with the new tibbers. if u want to use mega tibbers u need to be insane, if this old downside were added back she'd be freezing whenever she wanted to use mega tibbers... 

 

I really like willow and i think shes 97% or so perfect. the only things i would potentially like to see changed are infinite lighter and increase in her winter downsides: maybe lower winter insulation a bit more and make it so Willow needs an extra second or two to warm back up once she starts freezing. this would make the extra damage from freezing very meaningful.  

[Mike23Ua]

Lighters aren’t infinite, they require fuel, and when they ruin out of the liquid inside the lighter.. you either have to get a new lighter or buy a new cartridge to refuel them.

Willows Lighter should not be infinite, but it should refuelable using nightmare fuel.

In other words- treat it identical to putting glow bulb into a lantern as a fuel.

Make it so that only Willow can refuel the lighters, and bang her lighter doesn’t become a pick and swap feature.

[Ohan]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

doesn’t become a pick and swap feature

who would go through the trouble of constructing the moon portal and swapping characters for an infinite light source that barely allows you to see your own feet in the dark 

the durability on her lighter is almost inconsequential anyway i just finished playing on a public server for 37 days and i used my lighter a lot, especially early (i never crafted a torch) and it was still at 30-40% when i left the server. making the lighter infinite would just be a nice QoL change for Willow.

on a side note, i wouldnt be opposed to removing the crafting recipe and the ability to give others lighter altogether. since its <Willow's lighter> she crafts not just any ordinary lighter. and really, how many people on public servers are hounding willow to craft them a lighter lmao i have never experienced such a thing.

in that same public server as i mentioned earlier another willow dropped her lighter at base before she left and nobody picked it up for like 20 days until someone organized all the clutter into chests lol 

[Mike23Ua]

It’s not the light source that’s the problem, it’s the fact it’s a light source and a portable food cooker that’s the problem.

if it could only be used to cook mushrooms, for sanity manipulation then it wouldn’t be as bad I don’t think, but do not underestimate the power of having an infinite durability food cooker- you can turn morsels immediately into cooked morsel, you can chop and then immediately cook birchnuts..

No one cares at all about the light source, because after a certain skill threshold darkness never becomes a problem for you ever again.. 

What would be absurdly broken however is never having to build a campfire ever.. to cook stuff over.

[Maxposting]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s not the light source that’s the problem, it’s the fact it’s a light source and a portable food cooker that’s the problem.

if it could only be used to cook mushrooms, for sanity manipulation then it wouldn’t be as bad I don’t think, but do not underestimate the power of having an infinite durability food cooker- you can turn morsels immediately into cooked morsel, you can chop and then immediately cook birchnuts..

No one cares at all about the light source, because after a certain skill threshold darkness never becomes a problem for you ever again.. 

What would be absurdly broken however is never having to build a campfire ever.. to cook stuff over.

ONLY WILLOW AND WARLY CAN COOK OVER THE LIGHTER

[Ohan]

11 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

ONLY WILLOW AND WARLY CAN COOK OVER THE LIGHTER

yeah only willow warly and walter can cook with the lighter. 

if cooking with lighter was so game breaking Willows right now, even with the durability would forego campfires. one lighter costs 3 petals 1 gold and 1 rope and can cook 100 items, how many campfires/firepit fuel does that replace? Yet Willows still build campfires and firepits lol 

[Memetan]

18 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

ONLY WILLOW AND WARLY CAN COOK OVER THE LIGHTER

Walter too

[Nikki Darks]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Lighters aren’t infinite, they require fuel, and when they ruin out of the liquid inside the lighter.. you either have to get a new lighter or buy a new cartridge to refuel them.

Willows Lighter should not be infinite, but it should refuelable using nightmare fuel.

In other words- treat it identical to putting glow bulb into a lantern as a fuel.

Make it so that only Willow can refuel the lighters, and bang her lighter doesn’t become a pick and swap feature.

And humans are immune to fire?

Also if you wanna go with the "realism" logic, why not refuelable with actual fuel, like flammable things???

The light bulb plant in dst is far from realism.
 

 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s not the light source that’s the problem, it’s the fact it’s a light source and a portable food cooker that’s the problem.

if it could only be used to cook mushrooms, for sanity manipulation then it wouldn’t be as bad I don’t think, but do not underestimate the power of having an infinite durability food cooker- you can turn morsels immediately into cooked morsel, you can chop and then immediately cook birchnuts..

No one cares at all about the light source, because after a certain skill threshold darkness never becomes a problem for you ever again.. 

What would be absurdly broken however is never having to build a campfire ever.. to cook stuff over.

Only Willow, Warly and Walter can cook stuff on the lighter.... Please learn the character before discussing it, otherwise your arguments are full of false information. :/

[Mike23Ua]

Willow, Warly and Walter can use the lighter to cook foods.

[Nikki Darks]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Willow, Warly and Walter can use the lighter to cook foods.

And even that wouldn't be OP. It would be convenient, but not anywhere near being OP or abusable.

[Mike23Ua]

-sigh- let me put it this way then.. I played Re-worked Willow a lot in a world that’s exceeding 600 days or so.. and If Willows Lighter was infinite and never burned out of fuel- I would never die at all.

I never claimed to be an expert at this game, but I’m not a total noob at it either, the thing is.. no matter how skilled you are at the game- if you DONT pay attention to your resources... you can still be caught at night without enough resources to build a Campfire with.

And to answer one of the people above- Willows still build the campfires because campfires provide Warmth.. the Lighter does not.

Sure you can burn one isolated blade of grass and stand in the middle of it.. but that only selfishly benefits you, and not a whole server full of people who are cold & need campfires built.

The Lighter- Allows you to effectively skip the cost of resources to build a campfire long enough to cook a few things over then let burn out- Something that is VITAL if you play the game with a Nomad like playstyle of living off the land and not well... you know- moving all the land to your base.

 

In THAT Regard- The Lighter is and always will be Op.

[1bubbainpa]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-sigh- let me put it this way then.. I played Re-worked Willow a lot in a world that’s exceeding 600 days or so.. and If Willows Lighter was infinite and never burned out of fuel- I would never die at all.

I never claimed to be an expert at this game, but I’m not a total noob at it either, the thing is.. no matter how skilled you are at the game- if you DONT pay attention to your resources... you can still be caught at night without enough resources to build a Campfire with.

And to answer one of the people above- Willows still build the campfires because campfires provide Warmth.. the Lighter does not.

Sure you can burn one isolated blade of grass and stand in the middle of it.. but that only selfishly benefits you, and not a whole server full of people who are cold & need campfires built.

The Lighter- Allows you to effectively skip the cost of resources to build a campfire long enough to cook a few things over then let burn out- Something that is VITAL if you play the game with a Nomad like playstyle of living of the land and not well... you know- moving all the land to your base.

 

In THAT Regard- The Lighter is and always will be Op.

Do people not have pre-built light engines just for scenarios like this? Or is it just me?

Like 3 grass and 2 logs are not expensive at all.

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

-sigh- let me put it this way then.. I played Re-worked Willow a lot in a world that’s exceeding 600 days or so.. and If Willows Lighter was infinite and never burned out of fuel- I would never die at all.

I never claimed to be an expert at this game, but I’m not a total noob at it either, the thing is.. no matter how skilled you are at the game- if you DONT pay attention to your resources... you can still be caught at night without enough resources to build a Campfire with.

And to answer one of the people above- Willows still build the campfires because campfires provide Warmth.. the Lighter does not.

Sure you can burn one isolated blade of grass and stand in the middle of it.. but that only selfishly benefits you, and not a whole server full of people who are cold & need campfires built.

The Lighter- Allows you to effectively skip the cost of resources to build a campfire long enough to cook a few things over then let burn out- Something that is VITAL if you play the game with a Nomad like playstyle of living of the land and not well... you know- moving all the land to your base.

 

In THAT Regard- The Lighter is and always will be Op.

Ok, where do I start.

You saying you made it 600 days in is very much so unnecessary, because I just reply with "I made it to day 200 solo haha I am right", which is absurd and pointless.

I fail to see validity in your overexaggeration of every single point...

Not having enough resources for a CAMPFIRE... Saying that does not favour your arguments at all. If you don't have 2 logs and 3 grass on you, or if you can't quickly acquire it, I'm sorry but, that's a problem of you not being experienced enough...

Also, you really think that using grass for quick fire is gonna make the whole server go extinct? Again, seems like you not being capable enough of providing yourself/your team with a sustainable grass source... Not an issue of the infinite lighter being OP at all.

Yes the lighter makes you skip 2 LOGS AND 3 GRASS, OP, groundbreaking....

So yeah, please... Infinite lighter would be a bit more useful, but certainly not OP... Actually not a bit more useful, actually useful. It would make Willow have a constant use outside of Bernie.... 
 

6 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

Do people not have pre-built light engines just for scenarios like this? Or is it just me?

Like 3 grass and 2 logs are not expensive at all.

Exactly, I never leave to explore without a stack of grass/twigs/logs, just in case... It's called being prepared.

[Minitte]

Sometimes i forget that the lighter isn't infinite because i don't use it all before i get lantern lol

[sinisterrkid]

Great points, everyone, but let's keep it light.

Disregard the pun.

[Roosty_knife]

Agreed with every your word, @Nikki Darks. I have literally the same thoughts.

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, Roosty_knife said:

Agreed with every your word, @Nikki Darks. I have litarelly the same thoughts.

Glad we're on the same page Roosty!

[Scrimbles]

Its very easy to make the lighter not consume fuel when held by Willow, I did it in UM in like 5 minutes, pretty sure it was something like this:

 

local function OnEquip(inst, owner)

      if not owner:HasTag("pyromaniac") then

            inst.components.fueled:StartConsuming()

      end

end

 

Just checks if you are willow when equipping, if not, then start consuming fuel.

1 simple check and youre golden, dunno what reason there would be for Willow not to have this.

[GenomeSquirrel]

100 days is the most amount of time I’ve spent in a world, and 3 lighters is the most I’ve ever crafted.

Infinite lighter would change how I play in two ways. I’d spend a lot more time in the caves, especially in summer; and I’d include a lot more cooked mon meat in my diet, (I focus on killing spiders for silk, and the mon meat is a decent way to lose sanity and gateway to hambats)

[MondayNight]

As a Willow-main player frankly am indifferent towards her Lighter being infinite in use when equipped by Willow or not. Only if I had planning and anticipation problems I would have an issue with Lighter not being infinite. Else 3x Petals + 1x Rope + 1x Gold is pretty trivial even early game. I for one use her lighter only to cook and light up solitary trees in winter for warming plus burning rot/twigs/etc into Ashes (Healing Salves). Regarding light sources, the radius is minimal and after 2-3 days on any server I already have Lantern and Miner Hat, thus no further use in this field. Obviously it depends from player-to-player, but again I for one don't care if her lighter would be infinite in use or current iteration.

 

On the other hand, regarding Willow's nerfs you propose ("no insulation from winter gear", "insanity freezing" - btw, is no "perk", but a con), because that's what they are - nerfs, it's a hard "NO, ty!" from yours truly. They may seem "non existent" to you with the simple solution of "you can just light ANYTHING on fire", and would be in tune with her "pyromaniac" persona, yet I for one don't want to start random fires everywhere I go in late-Autumn, Winter and early-Spring, more so if raining and being insane. DST is about cumulative detrimental factors (with a healthy RNG component) - and because of those I consider current Willow iteration in a good place without the need to hurdle her more. Is casual-and-experienced players-alike friendly. Has a role in teams ("Together"!) - Nightmare Fuel farmer and protector against Shadow Monsters. Making her more dependent of fire and burning impedes said role in certain degrees. Even more, makes her into a hazard if forced to start fires much more often (than solitary trees/careful and controlled burning can provide). Plus will lower considerably her NF farming capacities (being insane would require constant fire for her to properly-and-efficiently fight) and would restrict her movement. Insanity freezing was an aspect of her a lot of people complained about in past until KLei modified it - and imo was a good decision.

Lastly "should LOSE sanity for extinguishing the fire she loves so much" sounds fair, lore-wise - and could streamline even further her NF farming (opening new marginal "meta" ways).

 

In conclusion I would fancy some QoL that makes Willow Lighter infinite in durability when used by Willow (still indifferent towards such idea in principle) and have sanity loss from extinguishing fires (small pro, small con, new minor-to-medium level strats available). Still no further nerfs for the sake of "making game more punishable" - it already is for bulk player-base ("but we shouldn't really listen to newer players" seems quite the elitist one; every input has a certain value); and resource-taxing on experienced players.

[Scrimbles]

46 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

100 days is the most amount of time I’ve spent in a world, and 3 lighters is the most I’ve ever crafted.

Infinite lighter would change how I play in two ways. I’d spend a lot more time in the caves, especially in summer; and I’d include a lot more cooked mon meat in my diet, (I focus on killing spiders for silk, and the mon meat is a decent way to lose sanity and gateway to hambats)

It's specifically BECAUSE the lighter isn't infinite that you never ended up using it, me thinks.

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Ogrecakes said:

It's specifically BECAUSE the lighter isn't infinite that you never ended up using it, me thinks.

I always use it to cook food, but eventually I reach a point where the crockpot is less effort (with fillers like ice) than crafting new lighters.

[HeatAndRun]

The biggest problem of lighter is petals are its ingredients.

Petals are relatively hard to mass-produce, and most importantly, petals spoil over time.

If only the lighter was available to refuel..