Lets discuss big Woby stomach problem

[Picklesaurus]

Hello!

As we all know by feeding Woby 3 monster meat she'll turn into her big beefalo like form, knowing this I run some small tests today and noticed some... weird behaviour related to Big Woby's belly... she likes to eat a LOT of monster meat.

The first thing I did was feed Woby 3 monster meats and time the duration of the transformation without feeding her more monster meat, the duration was 11 minutes and 44 second. The second thing I did was transform Woby again, but this time I fed her 3 more monster meats around ten minutes into the transformation, the duration of the transformation got extended to 13 minutes and 54 seconds. After that I repeated the same process once more, this time feeding 4 monster meats ten minutes into the transformation, getting to the duration of 14 minutes and 37 second.

I then did some calculations:
Duration of Woby's transformation: 11 minutes and 44 second = 660 seconds + 44 seconds = 704 seconds.
Duration of woby's transformation when feeding her 3 monster meats after ten minutes: 13 minutes and 54 seconds = 780 seconds + 54 seconds = 834 seconds.
Duration of woby's transformation when feeding her 4 monster meats after ten minutes: 14 minutes and 37 seconds = 840 seconds + 37 seconds = 877 seconds.

Substrancting 834 and 877 from 704
834 - 704 =  130 seconds of extra duration for 3 monster meats given to Big Woby
877 - 704 =  173 seconds of extra duration for 4 monster meats given to Big Woby

Then I divided the extra duration by the number os monster meats given to Big Woby:
130 ÷ 3 = 43,33 seconds per monster meat 
173 ÷ 4 = 43,25 seconds per monster meat 
(the difference in miliseconds is because I timed Woby's transformation with a chronometer in real life and I'm not a machine, I have human reflexes :-p)

So for each monster meat we give to Big Woby she'll only be getting around 43 extra seconds of transformation.
With that number in mind we can then find out how many monster meats a near starving Big Woby would need to eat to become full again:
704 ÷ 43,3 = 16,25 monster meats
(I divided the total duration of the transformation by the extra duration that one monster meat adds)

A near starving Big Woby would need around 16-15 monster meats to become full again.
After learning this about her I now call Big Woby by "monster meat black hole".

Observation: This situation is a problem because it becomes extremely hard and taxing to maintain Big Woby fed and in case you didn't know she gets slower the hungrier she is to a point where it's faster walking with walter normal speed than riding her. Also, before anyone says "just wait for her to transform back to small and feed her 3 monster meats again", yes you could do that... but then you'll be stuck with a slow Big Woby for part of the transformation while you wait for her to turn small again, even if you already have the monster meat.

Thanks for your attention!

[Mr.Fun]

This happens because small Woby has 50 hunger, so 3 monster meats almost fill her belly so she transforms into big Woby. When that happens tho her belly goes up to 300, thats why u need to feed her this huge amount of monster meat.

I feel like she need some kind of a buff, it's a complete waste to feed her after the transormation.

[Squirrel12]

I wish they had tested Walter with audiences before releasing him and making a really expensive animation for him.

The dog shouldn't be part of his character. It feels like a "pet mod". They should have just made Walter a boy scout with a slingshot. That's it. Less is more sometimes. 

But unless Klei makes a new animation where they kill off the dog...The dog is unfortunately here to stay and that's disappointing. 

[sudoku]

I'm not really in favor of buffing Woby even more as I think he is already strong enough. A good example of other characters who have character specific gear that is good early game but fall off late is Wigfrid and her spears, Woodlegs and his Sealegs, Willow and her lighter. Plus Woby will never truly fall off in the same way as he is 9 free inventory slots which I think honestly should be nerfed to half as it's silly imo to have the same amount of storage as chester.

[Picklesaurus]

26 minutes ago, Mr.Fun said:

This happens because small Woby has 50 hunger, so 3 monster meats almost fill her belly so she transforms into big Woby. When that happens tho her belly goes up to 300, thats why u need to feed her this huge amount of monster meat.

I feel like she need some kind of a buff, it's a complete waste to feed her after the transormation.

Oh, this data about their stomach size is interesting, I had suspected it was something related to this.
It's a shame Big Woby gets completely outclassed by a walking cane in terms of mobility - the cane doesn't need monster meat  and always gives you a high speed. It also boders me that Big Woby has no eating animation, even beefalos have one. Nor does she have a way to tell us when she's hungry.
 

[Bellium]

Yeah the interaction between Transforming Woby and keeping her transformed feels very counter intuitive. There's just a period where there's no point in ridding her since she's so slow, but since feeding her while in her big for is so inefficient, you just leave her be like that till she turns small again and you feed her again. Either make small Woby require more meat or big Woby require less, a mixture of both is probably best tbh. There should be more incentive with "getting the ball rolling" on big Woby and keeping her like that while you need her like that, as opposed to just letting her starve out like we have now.

[themightyone]

Feels like Woby should go as fast as a default beefalo with a normal saddle on it , imo. 

[Well-met]

There's code for hunger scale already built in the game. Klei could easily make 3 monster meat refill Woby accordingly even with 300 hunger points.

And make her saddlable to fix the speed issues.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

23 minutes ago, themightyone said:

Feels like Woby should go as fast as a default beefalo with a normal saddle on it , imo. 

And imo should stay the same speed while big. She doesn't have to last 12 minutes, 1 day is enough, but no slowing penalty please.

[themightyone]

18 minutes ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

And imo should stay the same speed while big. She doesn't have to last 12 minutes, 1 day is enough, but no slowing penalty please.

Yes , the slowing down before changing to small is lame.  And 1 day seems about right for big mode

[CarlZalph]

I crunched some numbers here [before patch 416585]:
 

Spoiler

 

1 monster meat = CALORIES_MEDSMALL = calories_per_day/4 = 75/4 = 18.75
1 monster lasagna = CALORIES_LARGE = calories_per_day/2 = 75/2 = 37.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [Do not use, this is effectively the same as 2 MM alone for Woby]
1 monster tartare = CALORIES_SMALL * 5 = (calories_per_day/6) * 5 = (75/6)*5 = 62.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [WARLY ONLY]
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER_RATE = 50 / (total_day_time * 1.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 1.5) = 0.06944444444444444444444444444444
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER = calories_per_day*4 = 75*4 = 300
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER_RATE = (calories_per_day*4)/(total_day_time * 1.5) = (75*4)/(30*16 * 1.5) = 0.41666666666666666666666666666667

                                                 |                Ratios
          | Monster | Monster |                  |      No Road     .    With Road
  Hunger  | Meat    | Tartare | Duration | Speed | No Cane . Cane   | No Cane . Cane
----------+---------+---------+----------+-------+---------+--------+---------+-------
[210,300] | 4.8     | 1.44    | 216s     | 8     | +33.3%  | +06.6% | +02.5%  | -17.9%
[099,210) | 5.92    | 1.776   | 266.4s   | 7     | +16.6%  | -07.1% | -10.2%  | -28.2%
(000,099) | 5.28    | 1.584   | 237.6s   | 5.5   | -08.3%  | -26.6% | -29.4%  | -56.4%

Most efficient to keep 8 speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    1 Monster Tartare every 150s
    4 Monster Meats every 180s
Most efficient to keep 7+ speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    3 Monster Tartares or 10 Monster Meats every 450s

3 Monster Meat = 482.4s of 7+ speed, with 237.6s downtime

So to maintain that 8 speed, every 180s that's 4 MM down.  If you have a Warly, then it reduces it a bit and makes it less of a hair puller each time you have to refeed Woby.

 

The ratios table shows that if you're following a road, then you'll outrun Woby if she's not at the highest tier for hunger levels.

Likewise once you have a cane, then Woby is only faster if you're offroad.

 

Ultimately use Woby for offroad travel like a beefalo and to move statues and other heavy objects.  3 MM to do with a 4MM/180s upkeep is cheap late game.

For early game I'd recommend sticking to roads for exploring as the main goal then is to find the biome layouts.  Can then use big to fill out the rest of the map by going along the border.

 

Revised for patch 416585, specifically: `Adjusted Woby’s speed and hunger in big form.`

1 monster meat = CALORIES_MEDSMALL = calories_per_day/4 = 75/4 = 18.75
1 monster lasagna = CALORIES_LARGE = calories_per_day/2 = 75/2 = 37.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [Do not use, this is effectively the same as 2 MM alone for Woby]
1 monster tartare = CALORIES_SMALL * 5 = (calories_per_day/6) * 5 = (75/6)*5 = 62.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [WARLY ONLY]
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER_RATE = 50 / (total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER_RATE = 50/(total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667

                                                   |                Ratios
            | Monster | Monster |                  |      No Road     .    With Road
  Hunger    | Meat    | Tartare | Duration | Speed | No Cane . Cane   | No Cane . Cane
------------+---------+---------+----------+-------+---------+--------+---------+-------
[  35,  50] | 4.8     | 1.44    | 360s     | 10    | +66.6%  | +33.3% | +28.2%  | +02.5%
[16.5,  35) | 5.92    | 1.776   | 444s     | 9     | +50.0%  | +20.0% | +15.3%  | -07.6%
(   0,16.5) | 5.28    | 1.584   | 396s     | 8     | +33.3%  | +06.6% | +02.5%  | -17.9%

Most efficient to keep 10 speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    1 Monster Meat every 360s

3 Monster Meat = 1200s of 8+ speed, with 0s downtime

It's really good.

[Squirrel12]

2 hours ago, Squirrel12 said:

I wish they had tested Walter with audiences before releasing him and making a really expensive animation for him.

The dog shouldn't be part of his character. It feels like a "pet mod". They should have just made Walter a boy scout with a slingshot. That's it. Less is more sometimes. 

But unless Klei makes a new animation where they kill off the dog...The dog is unfortunately here to stay and that's disappointing. 

I think people are misinterpreting this...

The problem with the animated shorts, is that it's sorta of a "no turning back" kinda situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

The dog, no matter how bad, unnecessary or badly designed it is, will always be part of Walter in the future...Because it's in the short. If no animated short existed, there was a chance for the the developers to reconsider and possibly get rid of Woby. 

So please stop "Confuse" reacting me XD

[FreyaMaluk]

26 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

I crunched some numbers here [before patch 416585]:
 

  Hide contents

 

1 monster meat = CALORIES_MEDSMALL = calories_per_day/4 = 75/4 = 18.75
1 monster lasagna = CALORIES_LARGE = calories_per_day/2 = 75/2 = 37.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [Do not use, this is effectively the same as 2 MM alone for Woby]
1 monster tartare = CALORIES_SMALL * 5 = (calories_per_day/6) * 5 = (75/6)*5 = 62.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [WARLY ONLY]
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER_RATE = 50 / (total_day_time * 1.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 1.5) = 0.06944444444444444444444444444444
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER = calories_per_day*4 = 75*4 = 300
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER_RATE = (calories_per_day*4)/(total_day_time * 1.5) = (75*4)/(30*16 * 1.5) = 0.41666666666666666666666666666667

                                                 |                Ratios
          | Monster | Monster |                  |      No Road     .    With Road
  Hunger  | Meat    | Tartare | Duration | Speed | No Cane . Cane   | No Cane . Cane
----------+---------+---------+----------+-------+---------+--------+---------+-------
[210,300] | 4.8     | 1.44    | 216s     | 8     | +33.3%  | +06.6% | +02.5%  | -17.9%
[099,210) | 5.92    | 1.776   | 266.4s   | 7     | +16.6%  | -07.1% | -10.2%  | -28.2%
(000,099) | 5.28    | 1.584   | 237.6s   | 5.5   | -08.3%  | -26.6% | -29.4%  | -56.4%

Most efficient to keep 8 speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    1 Monster Tartare every 150s
    4 Monster Meats every 180s
Most efficient to keep 7+ speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    3 Monster Tartares or 10 Monster Meats every 450s

3 Monster Meat = 482.4s of 7+ speed, with 237.6s downtime

So to maintain that 8 speed, every 180s that's 4 MM down.  If you have a Warly, then it reduces it a bit and makes it less of a hair puller each time you have to refeed Woby.

 

The ratios table shows that if you're following a road, then you'll outrun Woby if she's not at the highest tier for hunger levels.

Likewise once you have a cane, then Woby is only faster if you're offroad.

 

Ultimately use Woby for offroad travel like a beefalo and to move statues and other heavy objects.  3 MM to do with a 4MM/180s upkeep is cheap late game.

For early game I'd recommend sticking to roads for exploring as the main goal then is to find the biome layouts.  Can then use big to fill out the rest of the map by going along the border.

 

Revised for patch 416585, specifically: `Adjusted Woby’s speed and hunger in big form.`

1 monster meat = CALORIES_MEDSMALL = calories_per_day/4 = 75/4 = 18.75
1 monster lasagna = CALORIES_LARGE = calories_per_day/2 = 75/2 = 37.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [Do not use, this is effectively the same as 2 MM alone for Woby]
1 monster tartare = CALORIES_SMALL * 5 = (calories_per_day/6) * 5 = (75/6)*5 = 62.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [WARLY ONLY]
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER_RATE = 50 / (total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER_RATE = 50/(total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667

                                                   |                Ratios
            | Monster | Monster |                  |      No Road     .    With Road
  Hunger    | Meat    | Tartare | Duration | Speed | No Cane . Cane   | No Cane . Cane
------------+---------+---------+----------+-------+---------+--------+---------+-------
[  35,  50] | 4.8     | 1.44    | 360s     | 10    | +66.6%  | +33.3% | +28.2%  | +02.5%
[16.5,  35) | 5.92    | 1.776   | 444s     | 9     | +50.0%  | +20.0% | +15.3%  | -07.6%
(   0,16.5) | 5.28    | 1.584   | 396s     | 8     | +33.3%  | +06.6% | +02.5%  | -17.9%

Most efficient to keep 10 speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    1 Monster Meat every 360s

3 Monster Meat = 1200s of 8+ speed, with 0s downtime

It's really good.

wow the speed fix is really amazing. ty for the math

[Picklesaurus]

@CarlZalph I don't know what was quickest, the fix or you revising the numbers.
Also, Thank you for contributing to this discussion, I've seen some of your posts in the past and I've always found you inteligent/smart.
This data is amazing for someone like me that doesn't know how to access it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Squirrel12 said:

a really expensive animation

free character

[Bellium]

44 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

 

Revised for patch 416585, specifically: `Adjusted Woby’s speed and hunger in big form.`

1 monster meat = CALORIES_MEDSMALL = calories_per_day/4 = 75/4 = 18.75
1 monster lasagna = CALORIES_LARGE = calories_per_day/2 = 75/2 = 37.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [Do not use, this is effectively the same as 2 MM alone for Woby]
1 monster tartare = CALORIES_SMALL * 5 = (calories_per_day/6) * 5 = (75/6)*5 = 62.5
    2 monster meat, 2 filler [WARLY ONLY]
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_SMALL_HUNGER_RATE = 50 / (total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER = 50
WOBY_BIG_HUNGER_RATE = 50/(total_day_time * 2.5) = 50 / (30*16 * 2.5) = 0.04166666666666666666666666666667

                                                   |                Ratios
            | Monster | Monster |                  |      No Road     .    With Road
  Hunger    | Meat    | Tartare | Duration | Speed | No Cane . Cane   | No Cane . Cane
------------+---------+---------+----------+-------+---------+--------+---------+-------
[  35,  50] | 4.8     | 1.44    | 360s     | 10    | +66.6%  | +33.3% | +28.2%  | +02.5%
[16.5,  35) | 5.92    | 1.776   | 444s     | 9     | +50.0%  | +20.0% | +15.3%  | -07.6%
(   0,16.5) | 5.28    | 1.584   | 396s     | 8     | +33.3%  | +06.6% | +02.5%  | -17.9%

Most efficient to keep 10 speed, after Woby gets big feed her:
    1 Monster Meat every 360s

3 Monster Meat = 1200s of 8+ speed, with 0s downtime

It's really good.

Wow, new big Woby feels like such a perk now compared to her previous speeds! Glad Klei took on the feedback of her just getting so much slower than the player, with such a high hunger cost, to be a little ridiculous. I can finally fulfil my dream of riding Woby into battle slingshot in hand

[Squirrel12]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

free character

I'm referring to how expensive it must be for Klei to make these animations.