What is the best up to date SPOM since wheezeworts need phosphorite?

[beowulf2010]

5 hours ago, sheaker said:

How much of H2 should I generate?

11.2% hydrogen and 88.8% oxygen is what an Electrolyzer outputs in a perfect world where nothing is deleted or converted. So exactly 11.2kg of hydrogen per 100kg of water.

[sheaker]

3 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

11.2% hydrogen and 88.8% oxygen is what an Electrolyzer outputs in a perfect world where nothing is deleted or converted. So exactly 11.2kg of hydrogen per 100kg of water.

Well I wasn't precise enough. I know that it should be 11.2 kg but there is hydrogen deletion bug. What is real, achievable mass?

[beowulf2010]

7 hours ago, sheaker said:

Well I wasn't precise enough. I know that it should be 11.2 kg but there is hydrogen deletion bug. What is real, achievable mass?

11.2kg. There are builds that eliminate hydrogen deletion and a few that (at least used to) generate extra hydrogen. 

I'll have to get around to checking what mine does now. It used to generate extra hydrogen. 

[mathmanican]

22 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

at least used to

These were the designs that used element conversion. Hopefully that is gone. The fix to element conversion though led to extra mass deletion.

[TripleM999]

The designs, i tried so far, all produce hydrogen to oxygen in a 1:8 ratio, so i think, mass conversion and deletion is a thing of the past, although i would prefer the conversion to hydrogen. I hate to dispose so much oxygen, but have no other use for it. Personally i prefer the nonoverpressurizing designs with two stacked liquids.

[mathmanican]

44 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

deletion is a thing of the past,

You will eventually find designs that delete mass. When gasses bunch up and a single blob gets surrounded by another gas, fun things happen. This could be our next experiment. It wouldn't surprise me if steam turbine mass deletion occurs when a blob of steam gets trapped by petro and walls.

[sheaker]

2 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

11.2kg. There are builds that eliminate hydrogen deletion and a few that (at least used to) generate extra hydrogen. 

I'll have to get around to checking what mine does now. It used to generate extra hydrogen. 

Thank You.

[lee1026]

Trying to make an oxygen maker design that made LOX right in the same room as the electroizer have all led to very considerable hydrogen deletion in my experiments. Not sure if it is exploitable in some way though.

[beowulf2010]

1 hour ago, sheaker said:

Thank You.

No problem. I'll see what my build does and post the results, hopefully tonight. 

[mathmanican]

20 minutes ago, lee1026 said:

all led to very considerable hydrogen deletion in my experiments. Not sure if it is exploitable in some way though.

Since any exploit that leads to mass loss cannot be more efficient than venting to space, I haven't followed any game mechanic that led down this route for exploit purposes.  However, learning to prevent mass loss is extremely crucial in high precision builds . For electrolyzers, I always run them with two layers over liquid over them, as it negates the effects of mass loss. It might be to exploity for some, but the consequence of avoiding this "solution" is too annoying to deal with for me. Drop in a tad bit of two liquids, pre-fill chambers with a tiny bit of desired gas, and never worry again. It can run in a spom, out in the open, behind closed doors, you name it, and the gasses come out naturally filtered (which can be done in so many ingeneous ways using ONI mechanics). 

@TripleM999, the design you are using has failed me in the past.  I always block the tile above the upper left chamber of the electrolyzer.  They only fail when I get a huge build up of the bottom gas (hydrogen in your case), so large that in one tick the side cell can offload several ticks of 10% of the gas, and then reach a large enough mass that it pushes upwards into the oxygen chamber.  Once that happens, it gets messy. However, by blocking off the upper left tile above the electrolyzer, regular gas mechanics don't let this happen.  Instead, the gas teleports up and to the right.  I've never had one of these fail on me (though I'd love to hear results).  @nakomaru, I know we had a fun conversation about this a year or more ago.  Have you seen anything new since then?

[nakomaru]

Sorry, I learned through testing that this can fail on a reload just as the hydrogen displaces the liquid.

Spoiler

Pre-correction:

No new info from me since then: I use the design shown by @TripleM999 with hydrogen on the left of the output cell and oxygen above it, as shown. It's gone many thousands of cycles. I usually keep hydrogen at 20kg/tile, but just tested at extreme pressure briefly. However, with hydrogen on the top, I used to have problems with the liquid being deleted as you describe.

All of the gas comes out at once. The oxygen is directly added, but the hydrogen displaces the liquid. It is then merged in the next frame as the liquid flows back.

Maybe it's just a display error, but it seems like we lose 0.1g (about 0.1%) of our expected hydrogen per second. Oxygen is exactly 888g as indicated, but only 111.9g of hydrogen comes out (112g expected).

[mathmanican]

6 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Maybe it's just a display error, but it seems like we lose 0.1g (about 0.1%) of our expected hydrogen per second

I know for certain that the game rounds down when displaying liquid masses. I would say this is floating point numbers with display features.

9 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

with hydrogen on the top

That was my probably my issue. I still output my hydrogen to the top but block the other side. Haven't ever seen an issue with the upper left blocked off when hydrogen is on top.

[Prince Mandor]

16 hours ago, nakomaru said:

No new info from me since then: I use the design shown by @TripleM999 ...

There is a difference between builds. In your build one of top tiles covered, so oxygen has only one tile to go. In TripleM999 build both top tiles open for gases (with airflow tiles), and this is problem, mentioned by mathmanican

[beowulf2010]

18 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

No problem. I'll see what my build does and post the results, hopefully tonight. 

Well, it wasn't till this morning I was able to run mine and ran the test twice due to a minor backup on the first test as I wasn't quite awake and forgot that 40 tiles isn't big enough to hold 888kg of oxygen with just a normal high pressure vent.  Heh, oops?

Test 1: 1,000kg of water turned into 109.3kg of hydrogen (lost 2.7kg) and 883.9kg of oxygen (lost 4.1kg).

Test 2: 1,000kg of water turned into 111.7kg of hydrogen (lost 300g) and 885kg of oxygen (lost 3kg).

I'm happy with these results.

Here's the SPOM I usually use:

Spoiler

Yes, I'm aware this is an inefficient design from a power/hydrogen usage standpoint but I don't mind because I prefer to make thing modular whenever possible and I can still save quite a bit of hydrogen for the first few hundred cycles of running 2 or 3 of these before moving onto what I use as hydrogen creation modules like Nakomaru and Mathmanican have been showing off.

This SPOM is a modified version that I stole from here: https://imgur.com/a/spCaZ8d

The polluted water tank on top is an oxygen cooling aquatuner/steam system capable of cooling 3 of these SPOMs worth of oxygen and ultimately leading to my main oxygen storage tank to feed up to 28 exosuit docks.

Spoiler

The whole SPOM/cooling/storage stack in case anyone is curious.

 

 

And here's the test chamber:

Spoiler

There are 20 tiles in the hydrogen storage room and 50 tiles in the oxygen storage room.

 

[sheaker]

Ok, I with Your tips i created two simple SPOMs. With wheezewort cooling and with no cooling.

Assumptions:
Wheezwort cooled design is copy of regular design with additional cooling chamber.
There is infinite source of disinfected cleaned water from polluted water geyser. Temperature is around 30*C.
Machines are made of gold amalgam, Smart battery is made of gold.
Radiant vent pies are made of thermium.
Insulation tiles made of Mafic rock.
Tempshift plates are made of diamond. (You can use gold as well. There may be less tempshift plates in power generator chamber.
Metal tiles are made of gold.
Insulated vent pipes are made of Mafic rock
Insulated liquid pipes are made of Igneous rock.
Smart battery is set to 20-80.
Electrolyzers are merged in 1kg of crude oil at the bottom and 1kg of petroleum at the top (per tile).
There is hydrogen bypass vent pipe at the bottom of the SPOM. Extra hydrogen must be removed.
In this particular cooled design duplicants must deliver phosphorite to conveyor loader.
Gas filters and gold metal tile block is in vacuum as well as gas reservoir.
 

Results for no cooling:
~1.76 O2 ~ 34 *C.

Result for wheezwort cooling:
~1.76 O2 ~ 10*C. It highly depends on number of wheezworts.

Design with no cooling:

Spoiler

Design with cooling:

Spoiler

[fifty_ducks]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:10 PM, lee1026 said:

Note that the vast majority of oxygen is pumped into suits, where it gets destroyed when dupes consume said oxygen. Since the dupes don't care about how hot the suit oxygen is, cooling oxygen is quite pointless in most cases.

 

The TL;DR is that you should focus your cooling on stuff that cares about being cool, like farms. What temperature oxygen comes out of the SPOM is extremely academic.

Unfortunately true. I wish it wasn't the case, to be honest. I still cool my "general use" oxygen to around room temp out of principle.

[nakomaru]

6 hours ago, Prince Mandor said:

There is a difference between builds. In your build one of top tiles covered, so oxygen has only one tile to go.

Unfortunately, I just learned that this build can too fail after a reload. The hydrogen will swap with oxygen upwards after reloading just as it outputs...

As @mathmanican says, a tile directly above the output is the optimal solution. No way for it to mess up like that without deleting liquid, which it doesn't seem to do.

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

after reloading

The biggest bug of all.   I was guessing on the issue with the other build, but hadn't even thought it was reload related.  That is probably the key issue. Did it just barely hit you today?  Ouch!