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Klei pls make Wormwood WORTH !


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My first post here on the forum, I play DST for many years, since the early access I would say, I saw all the releases and witnessed several changes, and I like to play with all the characters, I would even say that I don't have a defined main (I love wendy cuz it was the first character that i played and i have a special affection for her) but lately i have been playing with more "exotic" characters and in this case i really liked Wormwood because it has different items and a different mechanic, however i noticed many disadvantages, the character has a very interesting potential, but it’s very little used in my view, for example:

Compost Wrap - a technically unique and essential item for the Wormwood, because after all the character can only heal through external sources and never food, but the item heals only 30 health and has an animation that lasts 3 seconds to heal and it also cost somewhat "expensive" since honey poutice also cures 30, has an animation of 1 second (3x faster) and in my opinion it is much easier to do. I believe that a buff or some change in that item would make it more "useful" to cure Wormwood.

Rain - The character is a plant, so it would be much more interesting to explore that side of him, after all plants do photosynthesis and also need water ... I would say it would be interesting to implement some type of buff during the rains, I can't tell the certain what, i believe that the community could give many good ideas for some benefit coming from the rain.

Spring Buff - I believe that losing 2x more hunger in exchange for 20% speed isn't worth it, especially just in the spring, I would say that the buff should be bigger, or even better, it would be nice if you could control the blooming of the wormwood for any time of the game (any season too), exchanging 2x more hunger for 20% speedup... it would be more interesting because you could make better use of this resource in certain situations, since the character cannot heal with food it would be useful to use this "bloom" to scape from danger (like Wendy can "turn ON/OFF" Abigail to save her).

I believe that Wormwood in its current state has a somewhat boring gameplay, because even though you have more life than a Maxwell, you end up becoming even more fragile due to the little healing resource you have, and the buffs coming from the spring season in my view not worth the DEBUFF (2x hunger) ...

This is just my opinion and a request to make a character that has a unique mechanic, more fun to play for a long time without having to switch to other characters. This isn't a request for REWORK, just some improvements, coz I like the caracter and his perks, but I think we can do a bit more... If the community has more ideas, please feel free and please forgive me if you're asking too much xD.

(sorry for my english too :P)

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It would be nice if some changes in the character were considered. It would be nice if the vegetables could recover at least a little of the character's life, like eggplant for example.
The manure could cure the same amount as the spider gland, since the character is a plant and only he would be able to use the resource! 
 

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My only problem with Wormwood are his crafts.

Compost Wrap is a waste of time, and nitre, despite being pretty easy to get, can be very valuable and rare if over used.

His bramble husk is a terrible piece of armor, and getting hit as a character who cannot easily heal is anti synergy. (I wish it would act like an Elephant Cactus, shooting spines out occasionally when mobs are nearby).

The bramble trap is okay, but it doesn't feel like that much of an upgrade over the tooth trap in most situations (or the starfish from the lunar island).

 

Blooming is incredibly good, speed is the MOST powerful stat in the game, it makes or breaks fights, and it's one of the main reasons Wolfgang is so OP, he gets a passive 25% speed boost based on his size.

(Edit, because I wanted to add extra emphasis on speed being good, its not just good, or the most powerful, it is absolutely OVER POWERED, kiting is basically the only combat mechanic, and going above the average speed limit will trivialize any and all threats)

If there were a manual way to activate it, say, an item that uses bees, honey, and a living log (TM Uncompromising Gang), I think that would be very powerful.

 

Wormwood is great for his downsides, and the ways it affects his gameplay. Porting him to DST made that a little less apparent, and removing his fire burning downside felt like a bad idea. I added it back in to Uncompromising Mode, and making it so he smolders was so easy, he can even put himself out, and there's synergy with Willow to extinguish him.

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I can agree with basically... all of that! Before someone say it, let me clarify something too: We know KLEI have other priorities at the moment but it's always nice to give these feedbacks so when they're free, they'll be able to collect the information and work with it at the right moment.

Now about the vague ideas, I can give some interesting ones!

--

Spoiler
17 hours ago, reDink said:

Rain - The character is a plant, so it would be much more interesting to explore that side of him, after all plants do photosynthesis and also need water ... I would say it would be interesting to implement some type of buff during the rains, I can't tell the certain what, i believe that the community could give many good ideas for some benefit coming from the rain.

 

Let's reinforce something again: Wormwood is a PLANT! So, with that in mind, here r my ideas: Characters while WET start losing sanity.. but Wormwood is not a common character, he's an MoonPlant character, so why not increase his sanity while wet? The more Wet, more sanity he regenerates (I'm not giving values, but there are decent and balanced amounts for that).

The same for life regen: While 95/100% WET he starts regenerating life. (I'm not giving values, but there are decent and balanced amounts for that, again)

Spoiler
17 hours ago, reDink said:

Spring Buff - I believe that losing 2x more hunger in exchange for 20% speed isn't worth it, especially just in the spring, I would say that the buff should be bigger, or even better, it would be nice if you could control the blooming of the wormwood for any time of the game (any season too), exchanging 2x more hunger for 20% speedup... it would be more interesting because you could make better use of this resource in certain situations, since the character cannot heal with food it would be useful to use this "bloom" to scape from danger (like Wendy can "turn ON/OFF" Abigail to save her).

 

For that, I agree that the movespeed bonus is not worth the hunger losing and also should be able to "BLOOM/DEBLOOM". 

What should be the perk, then?: Not just more movespeed but 1.25x more damage and maybe lifesteal? (Since his healing methods are limited) and also, while Bloomed he could be healed 2x more than normal. The turn on/off option would be AWESOME, saying again, plus while bloomed you lose wetness slower, but could lose sanity because of it, to balance the sanity gain from wetness.

Just an extra idea but when eating a Flower Salad or a new recipe (using honey, cactus flower and/or normal petals) he could Bloom for something like half a day, and you could also turn on or off.

Edit: Extra - While bloomed, when he's next to plants he can make them grow faster. Moon plant powers xD

Extra 2: Another idea from @Br Whity that is very nice: Wormwood attract bees for 0 reasons, make the bees yellow again when they hit him while bloomed too..

That's it, he DOES need some improvement so please, people looking at this post, comment your opinions! Wormwood is not that "famous" comparing to other characters, but it's not because of that he'll be left behind!

And Klei, we know all the team is busy with other plans and dealing with this pandemic is not easy, but when the priorities be finished, keep these ideas in mind! All of you are a great team, keep it strong! Wormwood is not a free character so at least improve him for making the purchase worth for the player.

Spoiler
17 hours ago, reDink said:

Ignore that, I'm on cellphone so I couldn't delete it xD

Big hug for opening that! :wilson_love:

 

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i think he is so cool to play. I like to having challenge character that actually its one of the best team players.

his recipes are ok. You can get infinity amounts of living logs and potions with pigs and light bulbs

the potions are for calm situations were your hp isnt at full, like tends, so you can keep you honey potions (that you are limited by the amount of reeds of your world) for combat and dangerous situations

having a batbat with him is mandatory, easy to craft if you fight batilisk in guano biome in caves

his traps are better than the default ones so nothing to say

his armor is quite useful to pick cacti and spiky bushes so you can gather twigs in winter

his perk that allows to plant every seed everywere is just op. You can feed a big amount of players and bringing to him all kind of recipes for every stat

and in spring is the greates one and the reason i play him. Speed is op in this game and the hunger drain is nothing when you have a stack of pumpkins and corn (also spring is the moose goose season so good luck trying to finish all the food before spoils)

 

 

im little tired of all of these post about buffing characters and more if is for one of the best characters in the game

edit: i didnt notice that the title suggest that wormwood isnt worth... xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i think he is so cool to play. I like to having challenge character that actually its one of the best team players.

his recipes are ok. You can get infinity amounts of living logs and potions with pigs and light bulbs

the potions are for calm situations were your hp isnt at full, like tends, so you can keep you honey potions (that you are limited by the amount of reeds of your world) for combat and dangerous situations

having a batbat with him is mandatory, easy to craft if you fight batilisk in guano biome in caves

his traps are better than the default ones so nothing to say

his armor is quite useful to pick cacti and spiky bushes so you can gather twigs in winter

his perk that allows to plant every seed everywere is just op. You can feed a big amount of players and bringing to him all kind of recipes for every stat

and in spring is the greates one and the reason i play him. Speed is op in this game and the hunger drain is nothing when you have a stack of pumpkins and corn (also spring is the moose goose season so good luck trying to finish all the food before spoils)

 

 

im little tired of all of these post about buffing characters and more if is for one of the best characters in the game

edit: i didnt notice that the title suggest that wormwood isnt worth... xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I also think wormwood is fun and has a cool design, but to say he’s one of the “best characters in the game” from a mechanical perspective is false.

Also agree that Wormwood’s green thumb tab is underwhelming as it mostly provides situational sidegrades from already existing items.

My biggest annoyance with Wormwood though is that in spring bees are drawn to you from anywhere on screen, and then sting you.  Either Wormwood should attract bees, or have them be aggressive.  Not both.

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I love wormwood too, I like his playstyle, but sadly his downside that he can't heal from food ruined this character from me, his compost healing item is way too slow,  plus he works much better with other characters. Wickerbottom to farm reeds to make honey poultices, and with Warly, since Warly could make loads of food for the team.

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4 hours ago, Toros said:

I also think wormwood is fun and has a cool design, but to say he’s one of the “best characters in the game” from a mechanical perspective is false.

Also agree that Wormwood’s green thumb tab is underwhelming as it mostly provides situational sidegrades from already existing items.

My biggest annoyance with Wormwood though is that in spring bees are drawn to you from anywhere on screen, and then sting you.  Either Wormwood should attract bees, or have them be aggressive.  Not both.

Ones of the best in terms of desing and how usefull is in a team. For solo is not that good but is what i like, is not op. 

The game is becoming so easy. Wendy is boring, wortox imb4 and people want to buff one of the better balanced characters

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On average, all I see Wormwoods doing on public servers is creating loads of vegetable foods, and keeping a chest full of living logs. This is by no means bad, my problem is that he has a lot of other perks that are not quite useful in the long run and could be so much more:

His compost wrap: As mentioned above it is far easier to make honey poultice in the long run, getting as much healing without having the animation debuff. Using it as fertilizer ends up being a waste of resources. A solution would be to make it more cost effective, every time he crafts compost, he gets 2 of them.

His armor: even on day 1000+ servers I see Wigfrids being asked to keep making helmets. They are cheap, durable, and good for day to day hazards. Not OP by any means, just slightly better than football helmets and useful to save your good thulecite gear from wasted durability fighting spiders, hounds or getting rocks up your head during caves earthquakes. His armor should fit the same role, the proboem I see with it is its super low durability. I'd keep the stats exactly as they are and give it "at least" log suit durability, so its a direct upgrade from it (despite offering less defense, but trading it for dealing damage and making stunlocking you harder)

His traps: they are okay but they don't work well with having to use his armor, usually people dies there and they end up being removed over regular tooth traps, which are cheaper, just as effective, and don't require you to wear anything. I'd remove the friendly fire of them for a multiplayer setting.

About rain and blooming: I think blooming is a small passive buff, its okay as it is, it doesn't even last all spring. Maybe when blooming and above 25% wetness he will regenerate hp at a steady slow rate, like 15hp/minute, as a small buff to make the whole extra hunger and bees problem more worthwhile.

He already has the easiest sanity management of the game so losing sanity from wetness is not really a problem, and he will not have hp regen most of the year. Being wet when not blooming shouldn't be beneficial really, as it is far too easy to stay wet all year long (watermelon hat, icecube hat, rowing too fast for no reason, etc). This would also fit the general thought that wetness should give him "something", and although it would be time limited, I think it would make him more interesting.

New sanity perks on him would be redundant, as he already has a way to go from completely insane to sane, instantly, with his planting mechanic. 

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wormwood is an excelent character for either food gathering and recovering his sanity, but his downside of not being healed from food may be a big disadvantage, since he won't be able to heal himself during early game until he finds either a poop source or other ways of healing itself, and it would also making him worse than most characters in combat as healing items are more expensive to craft and takes longer to heal, but i think that he's still an awesome character, i just wanted him to have more healing options as poop doesn't heal that much and neither is so common as it was in hamlet, and for compost wrap you would have to wait for any of your food to rot, and juicy berry bushes are very uncommon.

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16 minutes ago, The batting bat said:

wormwood is an excelent character for either food gathering and recovering his sanity, but his downside of not being healed from food may be a big disadvantage, since he won't be able to heal himself during early game until he finds either a poop source or other ways of healing itself, and it would also making him worse than most characters in combat as healing items are more expensive to craft and takes longer to heal, but i think that he's still an awesome character, i just wanted him to have more healing options as poop doesn't heal that much and neither is so common as it was in hamlet, and for compost wrap you would have to wait for any of your food to rot, and juicy berry bushes are very uncommon.

you can stack a lot of lightbulbs and fed a were pig. 120 manure in one day is more that the amount you can get in hamlet

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I think Wormwood is already worth it. Some tweaks to the compost wrap would be neat. The bramble armor and traps I absolutely love. While the photosynthesis idea makes sense I really dont want it, I think Wormwood has an awesome amount of upsides and downsides already and a photosynthesis perk would just be giving him too much.

Personally, I wouldn't want a single thing to be changed for him.

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Wormwood is a char that gets really punished if you make mistakes. In my opinion he is the only char that I can't play greedy (and maxwell). 

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

you can stack a lot of lightbulbs and fed a were pig. 120 manure in one day is more that the amount you can get in hamlet

The problem isn't actually getting items, it is gathering them. It takes a lot of unnecessary time to collect lightbulbs, nitre and waiting for food to spoil (if you started day 1). In addition, these items take 3 space inventory in your backpack, 4 if you start crafting compost wrap. Not to mention compost wrap can't be applied during a fight, since it takes time. Much easier and less of pain having couple pierogi to craft and eat on the go. Adding to the wasting precious time collecting resources vibe, wormwood benefits really well from bat bat. But we all know this item takes unprecedented amount of time to gather all the ingredients.

 

In summary, he is a pain in the butt to maintain when playing alone.

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48 minutes ago, KeshS said:

The problem isn't actually getting items, it is gathering them. It takes a lot of unnecessary time to collect lightbulbs, nitre and waiting for food to spoil (if you started day 1). In addition, these items take 3 space inventory in your backpack, 4 if you start crafting compost wrap. Not to mention compost wrap can't be applied during a fight, since it takes time. Much easier and less of pain having couple pierogi to craft and eat on the go. Adding to the wasting precious time collecting resources vibe, wormwood benefits really well from bat bat. But we all know this item takes unprecedented amount of time to gather all the ingredients.

 

In summary, he is a pain in the butt to maintain when playing alone.

I Agreed KeshS, my ask for small improvements its coz the vast majority play on public servers, unfortunately some of these servers barely arrive in the spring making the experience with wormwood limited in my opinion.

I'm not asking for a super buff, just a slight improvement in some ways to make these "quick games" more enjoyable ...

BatBat is a great item but as I mentioned, rarely on public servers do players perform prestihatitator, imagine shadow manipulator ... it is complicated to combine these resources on these servers.

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All I'd want from a Wormwood tweak is an improved compost wrap and better manure healing (it really should heal the same amount as a spider gland, 2 HP is, well, never noticeable unless you've brought 3 buckets of poop for 60 hp. :courage:

If restoring health in the rain is too much, at least make it so the plant character doesn't lose sanity from being wet. This could also benefit Wurt too, as a small tweak. (It still doesn't make sense to me that the two characters that "enjoy the rain" suffer from it like it's a frozen over underworld of pain and scarring torment. :nightmare:)

 

I still enjoy the character immensely the way he is, he's a fun challenge (Take that, Wes!), which I enjoy. :wilson_smile:

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1 hour ago, KeshS said:

Wormwood is a char that gets really punished if you make mistakes. In my opinion he is the only char that I can't play greedy (and maxwell). 

The problem isn't actually getting items, it is gathering them. It takes a lot of unnecessary time to collect lightbulbs, nitre and waiting for food to spoil (if you started day 1). In addition, these items take 3 space inventory in your backpack, 4 if you start crafting compost wrap. Not to mention compost wrap can't be applied during a fight, since it takes time. Much easier and less of pain having couple pierogi to craft and eat on the go. Adding to the wasting precious time collecting resources vibe, wormwood benefits really well from bat bat. But we all know this item takes unprecedented amount of time to gather all the ingredients.

 

In summary, he is a pain in the butt to maintain when playing alone.

im not saying that is easy. Actualy is what i love of this character. You must to fight perfectly, every hit hurts more to me than to wormwood

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15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im not saying that is easy. Actualy is what i love of this character. You must to fight perfectly, every hit hurts more to me than to wormwood

I understand your point of view and I respect that my friend (and I agreed in some parts), but as i said, i'm not asking for much, it would be interesting to have some item to force his transformation in any season, maybe improve the compost wrap a bit coz isn't useful in fights (because of the long animation) and i believe that only that would make his gameplay more cool.

as I said before, I can’t play the game anymore for a long time because I work and study, rarely does a public server go until spring coz people vote to reset in the middle of winter, and of course playing alone is boring. 
In conclusion, I like his current mechanics, I wouldn't change it, it would only improve some things so that quick play can be more fun just that.

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8 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

The game is becoming so easy. Wendy is boring, wortox imb4 and people want to buff one of the better balanced characters

Dunno what you mean, the only character that offer "challenge" for the game is Wes, and even after getting experience it doesn't matter the character you're using, things are always the same. Not even Wes make the game hard. We are searching for fun and gameplay improvements. The only thing challenging in wormwood is his healing difficulty, all the other downsides are just boring and unnecessary. What is listed mentioned as "good challenging downsides" feels like "unused content" for me, what makes his gameplay unnecessarily boring.

Really, there comes a time when it doesn't matter who you're playing with, nothing else is hard for you to deal. The only reason I play Wendy is not because she's "easy", but because looking back at her, when I was playing her before the rework, she was one of the only characters that had an unique and fun gameplay style for me, not just a "resource gatherer slave", that how playing Wickerbottom, Wormwood, etc.. feels like. The way you play her is different comparing to the other ones, and it was simple! After the rework she got unnecessary, not worthy and boring statistics, making you do things you didn't before and paying for prices that wasn't needed before, (that's how I see wormwood at the moment, his downsides are just unused or poorly implemented mechanics), and me and many people requested a "rework fix", so now she's in a better state! She's worth the effort you do and gameplay is now the same, but with different - and better - funny mechanics! Wendy is just the same, she's strong with Abigail, and the normal Wendy without her. Some people said she's easier, other said she's harder.. I, as a main, think she's just perfect and fun to play. I'm not looking for difficulty because again, everything get easy when you get experience, I'm looking for funny mechanics to play with, and Wormwood's ones do have a potential, but is not properly used. Not everyone looks for something hard to play, just fun and different ways to do it, if you want something like that Wes is your way to go, and limit you by yourself your healing methods, the fact that Wormwood can't heal like others doesn't mean you can't do that on your own, don't need to use it as an excuse. The main factor on wormwood is the new things he can do, the craftings and new form, mechanics that gives annoying prices to pay for bad stuff (what you gonna do with movespeed in a complete map world in spring? Open it even more? Would make more sense being able to use it when you want then), not hard ones, we are looking for fun improvements, not making gameplay easier. You can make your own gameplay harder, his downsides doesn't make it harder (not saying about less heal, but one more time, you can do that by yourself, don't need to use that as an excuse), just annoying. 

Anyway, I guess I said everything was needed, hope you can understand.

Edit: any new reply I didn't readed, sorry, this was one of the last ones I saw.

Edit2: Just to be clear too: I'm not saying that Klei job is awful or anything like that, please I don't want it to look like that, it's their creation after all, we are just asking for improvements that in my side, the player view, they can't think about. They need our feedback for doing something, so all comments are appreciated, as they help Klei to reach a good conclusion for everyone, and if you don’t comment, at least like it .. Maybe the repercussions of these ideas do not spread so much, since the launch of Wormwood was a time ago, but still I, we, as players can still change something, not now, but it will help in the future

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I always thought Wrap was kinda bad, because it's overwhelmed by Healing Salves and Bandages, it could use a buff.
But talking about content, what if they give the access to craft Root Trunks, those Hamlet chests that act like the Ender Chest from Minecraft.

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For me... He is too powerful, 1 wormwood in your party and you never ever again worry about food (in a game called don't starve ...). The HP problem for me atleast is not a problem as - if you have a spider nest near your camp you should have many hp items or just a tent... yeap a tent it's that simple.

In my opinion every character must have weakness and strenths (pros and cons). This characters are this - he can get you tons of food, but it's more hungry for 1 season and needs to use items. It's worth it if you ask me...

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48 minutes ago, 1v0 said:

For me... He is too powerful, 1 wormwood in your party and you never ever again worry about food (in a game called don't starve ...). The HP problem for me atleast is not a problem as - if you have a spider nest near your camp you should have many hp items or just a tent... yeap a tent it's that simple.

In my opinion every character must have weakness and strenths (pros and cons). This characters are this - he can get you tons of food, but it's more hungry for 1 season and needs to use items. It's worth it if you ask me...

I see what you mean but looks like you haven't paid attention about what was said... food is the least problem of that game, you can't use tents in fights and being more hungry just because yes and you need to eat more and that being worth? For me, i don't think so. In my pov you just said what every general character would do, food is really not a problem. Yes, characters do need to have pros and cons, but the cons you pay are really not worth the effort, they make gameplays BORING and not HARDER. Also, with @reDink's example, he mostly plays in public servers, and they don't even reach spring for the character usage, you basically can't do nothing with the character. You're ignoring many scenarios saying this in that way.

You also didn't said anything about his other mechanics, Theyre just incomplete... you pay much for nothing.

I don't want to sound rude, just arguing.

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I see now what you mean, for me Wormwood is just not a fighting character... and sadly this game used to be a survival game so food would be worth it but now ... well that is another topic...

In the end I think it's just a matter of perspective, For me playing him saves me the need to build farms and roam for food. True the regen from the food is missing, but persoanly it's not a big deal for me. His items are nothing special that is true, I don't even make them. As for the speed it's good and the 2x hunger is supposed to be his main con.

Once again, I think it's a matter of perspectives. For me he is overpowered but for others it's not... Then again I want the game to be harder and that could explaing my point of view.

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