Glass Canon Wes

[Yuuko]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Does Wes ALWAYS have to be totally awful though?

Yes.

[ToXic Cur3]

16 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

in other games you kill the last boss and you get bored because you have seen everything. In dst even killing FW only gives me more motivation to kill all of them with less preparation. Or how changes every run depending of how many people (i play most of the time alone so when i play with friends the game changes a lot), the world generator or where you build the base and priorice farms (sometimes i do pig village, other i place a base near a prebuild one, other i ignore pigs and focus on bunnymens, etc). Or for boss fights like bee queen, i have killed her in like "5 differents ways"

You summed it up and I agree that's why Dst is fun no matter how uncompromising it is for everyone 

[Thomas_klei]

wes shouldn't be a direct combat character at best i would prefer him to use traps to cause damage 

[Warlockadamm]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I get confused reactions... because people do not fully understand the purpose of the idea I’m purposing.

More because theres is no disagreeing emote/reaction and the closest thing to that is the confuse.  Your ideas are clear as water, they are just not really shared by many.

[YumoS]

wes is a challenge character. giving him special abilities would go against the reason he was made in the first place. if he should have any ability it should be negative towards him and the other survivors even more. like a 50% chance of things he crafts turn out to be something else or everything he touches turns to dust lol

[Maxposting]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

Maybe crafting a Red Balloon Angers a horde of Beefalo and makes them charge him like angry Bulls.

Funfact: Bulls irl don't get mad if you put red in front of them.

It's the fact that the bull is aggressive towards a moving thing.

Ballons in don't starve don't move.

[Roosev]

Wes should be a team player in my opinion. Mimes are meant to be entertaining (unless you're afraid of them), so it would make sense that he would buff his teammates.

Buffs could be anything, from increased damage to health regeneration. Maybe the hunger meter even gets slowed down if you stick around his aura, keeping Wolfgangs in their mighty state for longer, and so on.

I do think that his buffs should also work on Wes himself, with certain exceptions, such as the health regeneration.

I don't know how the mechanics would work though. Either something do to with his sanity, health or hunger. You want the Wes to still engage with the enemies, whilst buffing the teammates instead of just sitting on the sidelines.

Maybe the bloons could be his way of buffing teammates?

[ToXic Cur3]

1 hour ago, Roosev said:

Maybe the bloons could be his way of buffing teammates?

Heres what I'm thinking they can possible do depending on the mob or animal wes balloons come out as when he inflates them could give him/teammate's buffs or add another balloon animal for wes like a koalefant will make everyone take reduced damage and a merman gives increase movement speed something like this I guess 

[Sweaper]

In ONI dupes can put balloons on others to buff their stats (looking at you, movement speed). Wes could do that in exchange of his (max) stats. The more balloons he puts on others the weaker he gets, maybe you can even stack 3 balloons on a single person. All balloons still explode when they get hit, taking 5 damage for each balloon you have, can be mitigated by armor. No, he can't use the balloons on himself nor to other Wes or you could for aesthetics reasons but don't get anything from it. And it deflates after 3 or 5 days, dunno.

This will still keep Wes a challenge character but if you want to use his full potential as a team you'll need to put yourself at risk, which better conveys his "has trouble staying alive" description in-game. At the same time, if you use the perk to someone that don't know how to kite it becomes useless for battle but still useful to those that are only gathering materials.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

18 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

In ONI dupes can put balloons on others to buff their stats (looking at you, movement speed). Wes could do that in exchange of his (max) stats. The more balloons he puts on others the weaker he gets, maybe you can even stack 3 balloons on a single person. All balloons still explode when they get hit, taking 5 damage for each balloon you have, can be mitigated by armor. No, he can't use the balloons on himself nor to other Wes or you could for aesthetics reasons but don't get anything from it. And it deflates after 3 or 5 days, dunno.

This will still keep Wes a challenge character but if you want to use his full potential as a team you'll need to put yourself at risk, which better conveys his "has trouble staying alive" description in-game. At the same time, if you use the perk to someone that don't know how to kite it becomes useless for battle but still useful to those that are only gathering materials.

then he buffs all the players and stay in base safely meanwhile others fight and no single player option

[Sweaper]

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

then he buffs all the players and stay in base safely meanwhile others fight and no single player option

Might as well press alt+f4 if you're gonna play that way, right?

Edit:brain farted myself

I'm speaking mostly for Wes mains, since I know they wouldn't be content with that play style. But there will always be babysitters, no matter what character.

[h1mk]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe crafting a Red Balloon Angers a horde of Beefalo and makes them charge him like angry Bulls.

I like the idea of different balloons having different effects. Perhaps balloons are randomly output with different effects .. but that would be pretty gimmicky. If Klei wanted to get REALLY FUNKY WITH IT they could have a bundling wrap sort of tab that opens with the pile of balloons, OR EVEN BETTER ...

17 hours ago, Shosuko said:

To combat them Wes must craft a balloon sword and hat.  The balloon sword is the only weapon which can deal damage to these creatures, and the balloon hat is the only thing which can protect against them.  However if you attack anything else with a balloon sword, or are attacked by anything else while wearing a balloon hat, the balloon will pop dealing 5 damage aoe and stunning Wes for 1/2 second.

IT COULD TRANSFORM INTO DIFFERENT ITEMS VIA RIGHT CLICK, BALLOON SWORD ETC. 

i don't like shosuko's idea THAT much (sorry) but I would love to see mechanics implemented to make Wes retain being a challenge character.

NOT A RISK REWARD CHARACTER PLS KLEI

The idea of adding unique, player specific mechanics tormenting Wes is great. depending how bold klei could get with it, he could have some balloon sort of station that uses sanity to craft.I also love the concept of using sanity to craft balloon items as substitutes for regular items.

When I play Wes, I am insane pretty often because I just think the balloons are fun to spam, having a mechanic like this really fits Wes being that he catches that "Insanity!" vibe. I'd love to see him encoiuraged to utilize sanity as often as possible.

MAYBE THERE COULD BE SOME CLEVER MECHANIC INVLOVING THE LUNAR ISLAND

BUT ID ATLEAST BE HAPPY TO SEE SOMETHING NERFING THIS ON THE LUNAR ISLAND

(I am happy as long as Wes is either interesting in a way that appeals to mostly everyone and still not viable at all or similar to how he is right now, I like the first more because im not the only person ever, but honestly to me wes is just the stupid troll character)

Buffing other characters is more of a wilson thing, (just cause of the forge honestly, also I know this would piss off wilson mains a lot, that makes sense to me but it doesnt fit anyone else too much unless you want to see wolfgang deadlifting other players or something)

[minespatch]

40 minutes ago, Blunderbuss said:

IT COULD TRANSFORM INTO DIFFERENT ITEMS VIA RIGHT CLICK, BALLOON SWORD ETC. 

[Mike23Ua]

Just remember guys that Klei wants these Refresh changes to be unique & Interesting, Making each character Valuable within their own rights..

Which Obviously Wes can’t ever be if he never changes..

And Also Klei expects these changes to be Game Changing in Many Ways.

Who is Wes?? (The pictures Below describe him.)

Thats it... that’s ALL you have to go on..... So what exactly Is Balloonomancy...? And What should that Be like?

And will Wes mains who want/expect him to remain totally boring & Useless be completely upset when (or If) Wes gets some abilities that actually makes him useful, and obviously he is going to be getting his very own craftables tab (or Craftable Item) If every other character in the game who has been Reworked has been getting new found abilities.

The Only thing I want for Wes is this Gigantic Wooden Sign.. used in Pig Kings Championship Belt Mini-Game to smack you to the ground on your butt.. 

Except for Wes it’ll only be good for ONE Use before breaking.. 

And If Wes got this Sign I would love for him to hold it up anytime he took damage with words like Ouch! Ow! & Yow! Written on it.

When examining signs placed by other players he will quickly scribble paint what it says onto his own sign and hold it up pointing at it.. so that you (the player) can read signs other players have placed.

 

Like I’ve said before- I am completely certain that regardless of WHAT direction KLEi takes he Wes Rework In.... that He will no doubt be the most Controversial REWOrk the entire game.  

[ToXic Cur3]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Except for Wes it’ll only be good for ONE Use before breaking.. 

And If Wes got this Sign I would love for him to hold it up anytime he took damage with words like Ouch! Ow! & Yow! Written on it.

When examining signs placed by other players he will quickly scribble paint what it says onto his own sign and hold it up pointing at it.. so that you (the player) can read signs other players have placed.

 

Like I’ve said before- I am completely certain that regardless of WHAT direction KLEi takes he Wes Rework In.... that He will no doubt be the most Controversial REWOrk the entire game.  

Edited 7 minutes ago by Mike23Ua

Then what's the point of him being a mime if you want him to at least use a sign to speak,wouldnt that take away from the purpose of him being a challenge? I know using a sign is technically not speaking but that would take away also from his audio clues which the whole point of wes is to make the game more challenging then it already is instead of relying on the character to warn the player that a threat approaches

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And will Wes mains who want/expect him to remain totally boring & Useless be completely upset when (or If) Wes gets some abilities that actually makes him useful, and obviously he is going to be getting his very own craftables tab (or Craftable Item) If every other character in the game who has been Reworked has been getting new found abilities.

I like how you assume that people who plays wes wants him to stay "boring&useless" people who plays wes obviously wants a change to him but not one that takes away the challenge of playing him and also throw in a persons preference if people are not please with a rework like how wendy's damage was corresponding to her health as a example klei can change it due to them listening to feedback to make it better for people or to please some of the community who wants a change but it's not possible to please all

[Mike23Ua]

Huh?? No.. his signs don’t warn him of anything. he just holds them up when he is Already being eaten alive by dogs... lol.

ALL the Sign does is allow him to read signs that are placed by other players... for example/ If I have a pretty bee box farm set up an Experienced Wes Player is going to know NOT to pick my flowers because it’s going to kill my Bee Box Farm.

Someone Un-experienced with the game However Who Just picked Wes Because “Cool looking Mime” Isn’t going to know that picking my flowers kills my Bee Honey Farm.

And they’re going to craft hundreds of completely useless Balloons because that’s all Wes can do.. and rapidly lose Sanity, then pick all my flowers to regain said Sanity.

When that whole Situation could be Avoided If Wes could read the Sign I place that says “Please do not pick Flowers, Picking Flowers Kills my Bee Farm.”

Not being able to read signs does NOT make Wes anymore of a Challenge Character, it just makes him Annoying.

Maxwell, Wormwood and Warly are good examples of a not annoying totally Helpful to others Challenge Character. And That’s where I want to see Wes go.

Otherwise- I’m going to continue to ban him out my Xbox Server anytime someone picks him.

 

[ToXic Cur3]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

ALL the Sign does is allow him to read signs that are placed by other players... for example/ If I have a pretty bee box farm set up an Experienced Wes Player is going to know NOT to pick my flowers because it’s going to kill my Bee Box Farm.

Someone Un-experienced with the game However Who Just picked Wes Because “Cool looking Mime” Isn’t going to know that picking my flowers kills my Bee Honey Farm.

And they’re going to craft hundreds of completely useless Balloons because that’s all Wes can do.. and rapidly lose Sanity, then pick all my flowers to regain said Sanity.

I understand when you say that but it wouldn't do much either regardless or not even with a sign does not prevent a person(experienced or not)from taking stuff without permission it would not make a difference and that's where the uncompromising comes into play 

Unless your saying that anything with a sign has a  small aoe(nothing to big)like a flingo that prevents wes from taking things like that if I'm not misinterpreting what your saying

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Huh?? No.. his signs don’t warn him of anything. he just holds them up when he is Already being eaten alive by dogs... lol.

ALL the Sign does is allow him to read signs that are placed by other players... for example/ If I have a pretty bee box farm set up an Experienced Wes Player is going to know NOT to pick my flowers because it’s going to kill my Bee Box Farm.

Someone Un-experienced with the game However Who Just picked Wes Because “Cool looking Mime” Isn’t going to know that picking my flowers kills my Bee Honey Farm.

And they’re going to craft hundreds of completely useless Balloons because that’s all Wes can do.. and rapidly lose Sanity, then pick all my flowers to regain said Sanity.

When that whole Situation could be Avoided If Wes could read the Sign I place that says “Please do not pick Flowers, Picking Flowers Kills my Bee Farm.”

Not being able to read signs does NOT make Wes anymore of a Challenge Character, it just makes him Annoying.

Maxwell, Wormwood and Warly are good examples of a not annoying totally Helpful to others Challenge Character. And That’s where I want to see Wes go.

Otherwise- I’m going to continue to ban him out my Xbox Server anytime someone picks him.

 

he is a mime so its perfect how he make mime stuff instead of talk. If in a future they add a coyote character...

[RogueGamer12]

If a Wes player is taking flowers from your bee farm, i'm pretty sure that's just the player being a donkey. Not him being unable to read signs.

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, RogueGamer12 said:

If a Wes player is taking flowers from your bee farm, i'm pretty sure that's just the player being a donkey. Not him being unable to read signs.

I’m playing on the Xbox One bro... many MANY people are just now joining the console version.. due to game review companies like Gamespot, IGN Etc.. reviewing the new Return of Them updates and Character Refreshes on their websites.

Klei’s plan to breath fresh life into DST with their Limited Time cute little events like Carrat racing, New Skins, Character Refreshes and New Core Gameplay Content is working.. and it’s bringing new players into the game, Just because someone picks Wes and picks my flowers doesn’t necessarily mean they are only there to Troll... they may simply be one of these many new comers flooding to the Franchise who just simply do not know Any better.

You should see the amount of servers on Xbox One that reads stuff along the lines of “Just got this game, New Player Here etc...”

The good news is that this means that DS is probably getting more popular than its ever been in all of its existence. The bad news is That brand new player is still picking Wes because he’s not locked away in a maze requiring skill to unlock in the game like he was in Solo DS & they’re still there picking my Flowers because they can’t read a simple sign that says “Plz do not pick My flowers.. it kills my Honey Farm. <3”

And yet again I must ask exactly how Wes not being able to read signs players create and place can be considered as a Challenge? It’s not a Challenge.. it’s just plain annoying.

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just remember guys that Klei wants these Refresh changes to be unique & Interesting, Making each character Valuable within their own rights..

Which Obviously Wes can’t ever be if he never changes..

And Also Klei expects these changes to be Game Changing in Many Ways.

Who is Wes?? (The pictures Below describe him.)

Thats it... that’s ALL you have to go on..... So what exactly Is Balloonomancy...? And What should that Be like?

And will Wes mains who want/expect him to remain totally boring & Useless be completely upset when (or If) Wes gets some abilities that actually makes him useful, and obviously he is going to be getting his very own craftables tab (or Craftable Item) If every other character in the game who has been Reworked has been getting new found abilities.

There is nothing stopping Klei from making him both challenging, and interesting while preventing him from being useful.  I think my only issue with Wes in his current state is that his penalties make the game more challenging for other players, not just Wes.  Everyone is filling the fridge, but Wes eats more - he isn't neccessarily the one playing harder to gather more food, he's just taking it.  When he's joining in a raid boss he's not the only one fighting it, but it means everyone has to take more time than if any other character were in his spot.

Also these are invisible obstacles that don't have much weight in your game play.  When I'm fighting dfly or bee queen as Wes it doesn't make the fight any more interesting or challenging, it only makes it take longer.  Well what's the difference between dodging 67 dfly attacks vs dodging 89 of them?

What needs to happen with the remake is for Klei to find a way to make him challenging and interesting to the player who picked him without negatively effecting the rest of the shard.  That's all I really ask of Klei with Wes.  Find a way to make him a challenge character that targets Wes more directly.

[h1mk]

@Mike23Ua

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition and the subsequent refutation of that false argument instead of the opponent's proposition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

yeah I am being pretentious but this was the quickest way to put it

 

i'd' much rather have a real discussion than read a bunch of back and fourths, or walls of text in them, just, if you have an idea you should say it, and if you dont like someones idea say that while not being a jerk about it (like saying that their ideas are boring and uninteresting more than once)

[Mike23Ua]

I never said anyone’s ideas were boring and not interesting.

I said- WES- Current Boring Uninteresting WES is Boring & Uninteresting. 

Now before you go putting words into my mouth thinking that I’m Insulting Klei’s Character design, I am not.. because Current Wes worked perfectly Fine in SINGLE PLAYER DONT STARVE where in order to even unlock him you had to get to Chapter 3 of Campaign mode and free him from a set piece he is Trapped within.

Wes worked in Single Player DS because you had to actually be skilled enough to unlock him and more importantly.. It was a Single Player game so the only person you were hindering’s Gameplay experience was yours and yours alone.

However DST is a MULTIPLAYER Game.. and as @Shosuko pointed out, Wes’s Current *Challenging* Features just makes him a burden on the other non-Wes players who happen to be playing with him.

There are Challenge characters in the game like Wormwood, Warly & Wurt.. but they all also have unique playstyles and are helpful to a Team.

Wes being more Hungry means he’s in the fridges more often, Wes doing Weak Damage, Means he actually makes it harder to get group activities done...

Again, Fine in Single Player....but defiantly not so great In Multiplayer.

What If Wes by Himself was Weak.. but when around his friends he gained an increased boost to his stats or something? Something like a Encouragement Meter, he’s great when surrounded by others but complete trash when by himself.

I play SMITE- I also have been known to side-main Aphrodite in Smite.. shes Weak and Squishy Alone, but when others are near her she and her team mates gains an increase in their damage.

With over 90 playable characters in SMITE it’s impossible for DST not to eventually start sharing some parallels with SMITE- In Fact care to guess who my main for Smite is??? That’s right IZANAMI so if anyone.... anyone at all would know what a Glass Canon Playstyle is like- It’s people who play IZANAMI in Smite.. the Closer she gets to death, the more damage her attacks deal.

I hope to see that return for Someone in the future for DST... it was fun on Wendy but just really didn’t fit her & overall could be saved for someone else.. like Wigfrid.

The TL:DR there are ways to make Wes useful when playing in a Team, but still completely challenging when he breaks off on his own.

[h1mk]

what i mean is your posts should be more concise and cut out the drama,

[Flip Face]

Spoiler

On 29/03/2020 at 7:57 PM, Warlockadamm said:

I was talking about that with my gf. I think it would be cool if instead of Wes himself getting the damage buff when he is low health, it would be people around him that get a small damage buff (10% to a max of 20% idk). Like if the survivor around him wanted to protect him at all cost. It would more then compensate the damage that he isnt doing when playing with other players and when playing solo, Wes player would not be affected by it.

 

On 30/03/2020 at 3:53 AM, csc_unit said:

Oof the ones that want and try to reason a good mechanic for Wes... Hell no please God no. He is the cactus that kills you or the uncooked monster meat you shove into your mouth by accident; he is the shenanigan character (**not that he is detrimental for the team). I'd like him to have a bunch of semi-useless perks, that would be awesome. But but, with all these useless perks, it is important that other players do not hate him. So these perks could be useful for the others but not him. For example, he could have a nice sanity effect when you are around him. Idk maybe Wes starts to do mimes and blow some balloons so the other players get sanity boost. There could be some gameplay around that. If you ask me he could be even weaker! (or not idk) But All in all, Klei should make him so others want to keep le Wes alive. 

And If you playin alone?.. Well that's on you, that's the challenge you're maybe looking for.

 

As long as Wes creates a special attachment with these characters, only players who receive an item / effect symbolizing a friend request would receive this benefit.

It makes more sense to me.