Klei pls fix this rework

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, Toriih said:

Why bother killing bosses with her, tho, it's not the objective.

Oh lord no, it’s not about wanting Abigail to kill bosses all on her own, we want her to be just useful enough to assist Wendy in Unavoidable Giant Invasions.. you know like Deerclops, and Bearger... the ones that Target your base and Wreck it.

Abigail needs to be useful against THOSE.. but the Completely unimportant entirely optional bosses like Bee Queen, Toadstool, Firefly, Ancient Guardian, Fuelweaver, Malabatross ETC.... let her remain weak to all that...

its only the ones who come wrecking your base that Wendy Mains would like a little more Abby help with. ESPECIALLY if we do 25% Less damage as a downside

i don’t even think WES has a 25% less damage downside....

[Sweaper]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

i don’t even think WES has a 25% less damage downside

About that...

[Kaw_]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh lord no, it’s not about wanting Abigail to kill bosses all on her own, we want her to be just useful enough to assist Wendy in Unavoidable Giant Invasions.. you know like Deerclops, and Bearger... the ones that Target your base and Wreck it.

Abigail needs to be useful against THOSE.. but the Completely unimportant entirely optional bosses like Bee Queen, Toadstool, Firefly, Ancient Guardian, Fuelweaver, Malabatross ETC.... let her remain weak to all that...

its only the ones who come wrecking your base that Wendy Mains would like a little more Abby help with. ESPECIALLY if we do 25% Less damage as a downside

i don’t even think WES has a 25% less damage downside....

Well, I'm particularly fine with her not dealing with singular targets, whether "basic" bosses or not. This weakness is a price to pay, I take Wendy knowing that this type of fight will not be the best. In fact, it can be used as a help, but in this type of situation I don't care so much if Abigail is going to participate or not.

Maybe this new one is a boost up in the fight using Elixirs but I would still stay the same.

[Booklover]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

i don’t even think WES has a 25% less damage downside....

 

This may be a joke but I think Wes is the challenge character for a reason...

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Booklover said:

This may be a joke but I think Wes is the challenge character for a reason...

I dont see it, I’ve NEVER seen Wes as a challenge mode character outside of Single Player Don’t Starve.

Wait just a second and I’ll tell you why- Yes Wes has Faster food Drain but if you have a Wormwood in the game all you need is a bunch of seeds and fertilizer and you got near-endless instant food & Thorny Armors

Yes Wes has low health and has trouble staying Alive but if there’s a Wortox in the game all he has to do is murder a few butterflies or bees and drop souls at Wes’s feet to insta-Heal him.

Yes Wes has trouble Managing Sanity but now with the help of Wendy’s Sisturn it’s even easier to Manage.

My Point is Wes is only a Challenge Character if your playing alone in Single Player... and there’s nothing anyone can ever say that will change or alter my opinion on that.

So with that said- Why cant Wes Red Balloon Anger Beefalo luring them to it like a Salt lick? It would allow Wes to more Easily get Beefalo to go where he wants them to go.. but it’s also a perk that makes sense.

This post isn’t about Wes though- It’s about Fixing Wendy, and as long as they make it so I can’t instantly kill Abigail in 1 hit reseting her health to Zero and removing the potion effect I just applied to her, I would be happy if that was the ONLY change they made.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said:

Deerclops has 4000 hp not 6000.

i though she has the same as bearger. Well then abigail not only nullifies wendys penalty, she does extra damage than wilson

 

[Booklover]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-SNIP-

The thing is, Wes is a challenge character BECAUSE he needs/leeches on others only to be worse than Wilson. Sure, you can give out ways to fix his problems but the thing is, other characters have pros and don't need to rely on other characters to fix their problems. We're going off topic but y'all probs know my opinions already.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

45 minutes ago, Toriih said:

Why bother killing bosses with her, tho, it's not the objective.

because i want unique playstyles. I dont want a almost chesse abigail fighting her, as i said, i want her to be useful to make fights more interesting.

unless i see her usefull against bee quee and klaus (i could use her against deer because of klaus) and i guess that toadstool will receive free damage until his earthquakes or fuelweaver if you manage to get always the focus ,actually i really want to try this fight with the new controll system. If abigail in agresive mode focus fuelweavers minions could make the fight a relaxed walk in the park

the only one who instead of a bunny army needs to help ghosts

[Bird Up]

2 minutes ago, Booklover said:

The thing is, Wes is a challenge character BECAUSE he needs/leeches on others only to be worse than Wilson. Sure, you can give out ways to fix his problems but the thing is, other characters have pros and don't need to rely on other characters to fix their problems. We're going off topic but y'all probs know my opinions already.

Wes doesn't inherently need anyone to succeed. I've seen loads of self sufficient Wes players in public servers. More so than others characters.

[Warlockadamm]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

~snip

Spoiler

Here we go again...

Mike for the love of everything that's holy can you stop writing wall of text on a character you dont even fully know of... it really really is frustrating to listen to that broken record of yours over and over again, complaining about things you dont even fully know or fully understand...

You are flooding the whole forums and at that point im rather certain everyone here read your idea. You go off topic on so many different threads and it really doesn't make any sense for the most of them. Hell this is a WENDY discussion thread and you are here talking about Wes again. Let it go dude. Like seriously just stop it's not fun to read and doesn't bring anything new to the table that you haven't already stated in a previous post.

 

Sorry for bursting out again...

 

[Kaw_]

59 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because i want unique playstyles. I dont want a almost chesse abigail fighting her, as i said, i want her to be useful to make fights more interesting.

unless i see her usefull against bee quee and klaus (i could use her against deer because of klaus) and i guess that toadstool will receive free damage until his earthquakes or fuelweaver if you manage to get always the focus ,actually i really want to try this fight with the new controll system. If abigail in agresive mode focus fuelweavers minions could make the fight a relaxed walk in the park

the only one who instead of a bunny army needs to help ghosts

It's okay to want to use it in a fighting way but I still emphasize: Wendy was not made for that. She is not and has never been a fighter. If I understand you want to use it that way, but I don't I imagine a change that inclines her to this aspect. She is a crowd controller. In fact she can fight at your side, but it is not the best of hers.

9 minutes ago, Warlockadamm said:

  Hide contents

Here we go again...

Mike for the love of everything that's holy can you stop writing wall of text on a character you dont even fully know of... it really really is frustrating to listen to that broken record of yours over and over again, complaining about things you dont even fully know or fully understand...

You are flooding the whole forums and at that point im rather certain everyone here read your idea. You go off topic on so many different threads and it really doesn't make any sense for the most of them. Hell this is a WENDY discussion thread and you are here talking about Wes again. Let it go dude. Like seriously just stop it's not fun to read and doesn't bring anything new to the table that you haven't already stated in a previous post.

 

Sorry for bursting out again...

 

In fact, this topic was not designed to compare characters, but to improve aspects of the changes that Wendy already received 

[Mike23Ua]

56 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

Wes doesn't inherently need anyone to succeed. I've seen loads of self sufficient Wes players in public servers. More so than others characters.

On PC Maybe, On Consoles.. not so much- if you can prove those statistics to be inaccurate I will retract every comment I’ve ever made about Wes.

However I am CURRENTLY playing as Wendy and Fighting a Bearger and Deerclops at the same time.. well I was but the Bearger killed the Deerclops- and I’m still trying to deal with him. No potion I apply to Abigail helps her stay alive and be of any use against him.. and I can’t get close enough to attack it with Abby because I will die.. or Worse, I’ll accidentally kill Abigail in 1 hit and THEN I will Die.

Ive been fighting this thing for atleast 6-8 game days.. I would LOVE if Abigail got a decent potion that assists me with this fight.. even if the crafting recipe for said potion requires 20 Mourning Glories, 6 living log, 3 Nightmare Fuel, 2 Purple Gems.. and a Telltale Heart.

[Kaw_]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

On PC Maybe, On Consoles.. not so much- if you can prove those statistics to be inaccurate I will retract every comment I’ve ever made about Wes.

However I am CURRENTLY playing as Wendy and Fighting a Bearger and Deerclops at the same time.. well I was but the Bearger killed the Deerclops- and I’m still trying to deal with him. No potion I apply to Abigail helps her stay alive and be of any use against him.. and I can’t get close enough to attack it with Abby because I will die.. or Worse, I’ll accidentally kill Abigail in 1 hit and THEN I will Die.

Ive been fighting this thing for atleast 6-8 game days.. I would LOVE if Abigail got a decent potion that assists me with this fight.. even if the crafting recipe for said potion requires 20 Mourning Glories, 6 living log, 3 Nightmare Fuel, 2 Purple Gems.. and a Telltale Heart.

But Wendy is exactly meant to not be good at these fights, man... you just can't succeed at it. She's not a fighter or even a boss killer. You can get her help, but is not going to be the best.

[CremeLover]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

On PC Maybe, On Consoles.. not so much- if you can prove those statistics to be inaccurate I will retract every comment I’ve ever made about Wes.

However I am CURRENTLY playing as Wendy and Fighting a Bearger and Deerclops at the same time.. well I was but the Bearger killed the Deerclops- and I’m still trying to deal with him. No potion I apply to Abigail helps her stay alive and be of any use against him.. and I can’t get close enough to attack it with Abby because I will die.. or Worse, I’ll accidentally kill Abigail in 1 hit and THEN I will Die.

Ive been fighting this thing for atleast 6-8 game days.. I would LOVE if Abigail got a decent potion that assists me with this fight.. even if the crafting recipe for said potion requires 20 Mourning Glories, 6 living log, 3 Nightmare Fuel, 2 Purple Gems.. and a Telltale Heart.

Abigail has never been good at dealing with bosses. If she was her old ser and you put her against two bosses, she's be dead before she even does 400HP damage.

While is fair to ask for Abigail to be tweaked, asking her to take on two seasonal bosses is a bit overkill in terms of asking for buffs. Just drive them to the swamp and have them die by tentacles, sacrifice a beefalo herd, or just go the old fashion way with a spear and a logsuit.

And regarding potions that can help, you have one! The telltale heart one will surely help you defeat any boss. Just grind a couple of stacks of them and she'd be able to solo any boss in the game.

[Kaw_]

1 minute ago, CremeLover said:

And regarding potions that can help, you have one! The telltale heart one will surely help you defeat any boss. Just grind a couple of stacks of them and she'd be able to solo any boss in the game.

Maybe do a nice damage, but soloing is a hyperbole xD

39 minutes ago, Warlockadamm said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Here we go again...

Mike for the love of everything that's holy can you stop writing wall of text on a character you dont even fully know of... it really really is frustrating to listen to that broken record of yours over and over again, complaining about things you dont even fully know or fully understand...

You are flooding the whole forums and at that point im rather certain everyone here read your idea. You go off topic on so many different threads and it really doesn't make any sense for the most of them. Hell this is a WENDY discussion thread and you are here talking about Wes again. Let it go dude. Like seriously just stop it's not fun to read and doesn't bring anything new to the table that you haven't already stated in a previous post.

 

Sorry for bursting out again...

 

(OFF-TOPIC)

dude, what i need to do for using this "Reveal hiden contents" thing? I have no idea how to do it xD

[ShyRo-Zyerenzy]

You need old targeting back, and constantly switch modes to call her back with vigor potion, it has a timing, possible but annoying, doing it with deerclops is easy, but just kill it normally with a hambat 2~3hits with a cane switch. At the third dodge he slams, here he attacks and you bait it getting close, dodge and repeat. 

 

[CremeLover]

9 minutes ago, Toriih said:

Maybe do a nice damage, but soloing is a hyperbole xD

The Telltale heart potion heals for 300HP, two stacks equal 40 potions, or 12000 health.

And if it isn't enough, just add more healing items.

Eventually the boss is going to fall no matter how though and big he is.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

The Telltale heart potion heals for 300HP, two stacks equal 40 potions, or 12000 health.

And if it isn't enough, just add more healing items.

Eventually the boss is going to fall no matter how though and big he is.

Except they apply a heal over time effect of 20hp / second while deerclops does about 150 every 4 seconds.  With wendy at full health she'll do about 500 damage before you need to recall Abi or she dies regardless of potion.  If you drop Wendy to 1 health Abi will do about 1500.  Either way you then need to recall her, heal her (it takes more than 1 telltale heart potion to heal her to max) and re-engage.  So it took 3 full healthbars from Abi, 7 telltale heart potions, before she dropped deerclops, while Wendy was at 1 health.  Any more health and the fight takes a lot longer due to the scaling of Abi based on Wendy's health giving the biggest damage increase for the last few health points.

On PC this is managable, and I wouldn't mind playing "1 health Wendy and the Abi that can almost solo some bosses" except that pretty much puts her in the realm of challenge character lol.  On console this is much more difficult as you can only de-summon Abi in melee range of her, and there is a slight stun effect while you recall her meaning you'll likely end up dead...  Controller bindings are bad enough as it is, I would NOT want to try and manage abi on console lol

Bearger is worse than deerclops dealing 200 damage to Abi each hit.  Even 1 health Wendy & Abi only did about 500 damage before I needed to recall her.  You can't just throw health potions at Abi to make her tank everything.

Makes sense a lot of players are wanting a different mechanic to control Abi's damage rather than Wendy's healthbar.  If any character should be designed to operate at 1 health it should be Wes, not Wendy.  If anything Wendy has typically been one of the noob friendly characters as Abi makes pretty much anything in the game easy sans bosses.

[Mike23Ua]

You have to be within slapping distance of Abigail to Desummon her on Console.... and you go through an animation of standing still and tearing her flower apart.

If Abigail is already actively engaged in a battle you will need to get dead center of said battle to Recall Abigail on Xbox One.

And a low HP Wendy Obviously Ain’t gonna be able to do that.  

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Toriih said:

But Wendy is exactly meant to not be good at these fights, man... you just can't succeed at it. She's not a fighter or even a boss killer. You can get her help, but is not going to be the best.

But that was in RoG where bosses dont have 20k hp. Meanwhile she can be use to help a little in raid bosses im happy. And as you said before if she cant help its a downside i will pay because abigail already helps you to beat bosses because you farm gear more quick. That is what her downside its about, much crowd controll weak against bosses. I said this in every topic, i dont want the game to become easy just fun. Actually as a wes lover i like a lot having less damage to kill bearger, deerclops, etc but what i feared its that she will be useless against raid bosses (think that seems to be false) 

But if abi cant help in some huge fight for what are the exlixirs and the damage buff when low hp? For spiders? I got in day 6 more silk than i will waste in hundred of days with his nerfed damage because she doesnt need damage or even health to kill spiders

 

The most i play wendy the most i see how well done its the rework. Yeah, maybe some elixirs are weak but abi its strong and the damage buff when low hp its awesome(i dont care if before in nigh gets more damage, this its more exciting)

At the moment i cant be more happy with this rework. 

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Except they apply a heal over time effect of 20hp / second while deerclops does about 150 every 4 seconds.  With wendy at full health she'll do about 500 damage before you need to recall Abi or she dies regardless of potion.  If you drop Wendy to 1 health Abi will do about 1500.  Either way you then need to recall her, heal her (it takes more than 1 telltale heart potion to heal her to max) and re-engage.  So it took 3 full healthbars from Abi, 7 telltale heart potions, before she dropped deerclops, while Wendy was at 1 health.  Any more health and the fight takes a lot longer due to the scaling of Abi based on Wendy's health giving the biggest damage increase for the last few health points.

On PC this is managable, and I wouldn't mind playing "1 health Wendy and the Abi that can almost solo some bosses" except that pretty much puts her in the realm of challenge character lol.  On console this is much more difficult as you can only de-summon Abi in melee range of her, and there is a slight stun effect while you recall her meaning you'll likely end up dead...  Controller bindings are bad enough as it is, I would NOT want to try and manage abi on console lol

Bearger is worse than deerclops dealing 200 damage to Abi each hit.  Even 1 health Wendy & Abi only did about 500 damage before I needed to recall her.  You can't just throw health potions at Abi to make her tank everything.

Makes sense a lot of players are wanting a different mechanic to control Abi's damage rather than Wendy's healthbar.  If any character should be designed to operate at 1 health it should be Wes, not Wendy.  If anything Wendy has typically been one of the noob friendly characters as Abi makes pretty much anything in the game easy sans bosses.

But noobs doesnt need that buff of damage so they can farm spiders (the most common mob that a new player will fight) and if the noob player is loosing health maybe will survive cause of abigails damage

I like character having these perks for veterans but being usefull for new players

[Spaartan]

6 hours ago, Toriih said:

Maybe do a nice damage, but soloing is a hyperbole xD

(OFF-TOPIC)

dude, what i need to do for using this "Reveal hiden contents" thing? I have no idea how to do it xD

Well honestly she could solo stuff like deer and moose, it's just not really that cost-efficient or fun to leave the fighting to her while having your only contribution be working as a material gatherer for her potions.

(Off-topic)

Spoiler

You just click on the little eye thingy to the right of the text size 

 

 

6 hours ago, Toriih said:

But Wendy is exactly meant to not be good at these fights, man... you just can't succeed at it. She's not a fighter or even a boss killer. You can get her help, but is not going to be the best.

My main problem with that is where's the fun with fighting raid bosses with that? If you have literally any main attacker like wolfgang, wigfrid or anyone that doesn't have a damage penalty, you're better off staying out of the fight since you'd be 1. Low on health if you're being a glass cannon or 2. You're wasting anything that's not a ham with the damage debuff. The best course of action would be to again, leave Abigail with all the work while just flooding her flower with healing potions. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just unsure whether it'll be interesting enough to just sit in the sidelines and not do much. Then again, I could be entirely wrong so I strongly request for either advice for fighting with friends against raid bosses or to test how its like in the kind of situation I mentioned and share the results.

[CremeLover]

8 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Except they apply a heal over time effect of 20hp / second while deerclops does about 150 every 4 seconds.  With wendy at full health she'll do about 500 damage before you need to recall Abi or she dies regardless of potion.  If you drop Wendy to 1 health Abi will do about 1500.  Either way you then need to recall her, heal her (it takes more than 1 telltale heart potion to heal her to max) and re-engage.  So it took 3 full healthbars from Abi, 7 telltale heart potions, before she dropped deerclops, while Wendy was at 1 health.  Any more health and the fight takes a lot longer due to the scaling of Abi based on Wendy's health giving the biggest damage increase for the last few health points.

On PC this is managable, and I wouldn't mind playing "1 health Wendy and the Abi that can almost solo some bosses" except that pretty much puts her in the realm of challenge character lol.  On console this is much more difficult as you can only de-summon Abi in melee range of her, and there is a slight stun effect while you recall her meaning you'll likely end up dead...  Controller bindings are bad enough as it is, I would NOT want to try and manage abi on console lol

Bearger is worse than deerclops dealing 200 damage to Abi each hit.  Even 1 health Wendy & Abi only did about 500 damage before I needed to recall her.  You can't just throw health potions at Abi to make her tank everything.

Makes sense a lot of players are wanting a different mechanic to control Abi's damage rather than Wendy's healthbar.  If any character should be designed to operate at 1 health it should be Wes, not Wendy.  If anything Wendy has typically been one of the noob friendly characters as Abi makes pretty much anything in the game easy sans bosses.

Fair enough, I was just going by the goo'old "enough armor, weapons and healing and you can take any boss" mentality. And you do not need to recall her as just returning her to passive will make her stick to you and abandon the fight without having to run away for 4 screens worth of distance.

To be honest, she was the easy-going character for me, with a serious disadvantage of dealing 3/4 of regular damage, but that also allowed me to go out without a weapon in most cases unless I was planning to enter a dangerous situation. Reducing Abigail's damage and tying it to Wendy's health means I now need to put myself at risk to have abigail be effective instead of just waiting for night, which is against the way I have played the character until now. I know there is a lot of people who like her being a challenge/risky glass cannon type of character, and I know what Klei was going for when they made this decision, as Wendy gets closer to death, Abigail grows stronger to protect her sister.

I just don't like it because that's not how I've been playing the character, it is a significantly change in the way the character plays and feels, which is something I did fear might happened. And although this is far from my "worse case sceneario" where playing Wendy becomes a manageament simulator, I'm still not a fan.

My idea for this rework that I think would've been cool back in the day was to have Wendy be able to craft different types of flowers that give abigail different rearrangement of her stats and maybe even different abilities when you summoned her from each flower, similar to how Deoxis from pokemon changes form and his stats change with it. This way you could've had the wendy sanity station and the summon rush still in the game, expanding her horizontally in a similar way woodie did while adding flavor to how you can use abigail.

Not sure what I would do to patch this rework, I don't like damage tied to health and sanity is too gimmicky at this point, but planning to have abigail deals her maximun possible damage is also part of Wendy's playstyle.

I do trust Klei, and I know they will be able to , but sometimes I do wish they gave a rough sketch of the idea they have planned for reworking old content before they use their time and resources for an idea that migh not fare well with people already playing that content.

[Sweaper]

Can someone test what mobs Abigail can't kill with Wendy at 100% health?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Can someone test what mobs Abigail can't kill with Wendy at 100% health?

maybe...birds? xd

1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

 

you can keep scouting without weapons with abigail, the nerf of her damage doesnt maker her less effective against small mobs and if you have trouble of being at 50% health near mobs maybe you should think about carry restoration items and helmet but isnt needed to farm spiders pigs or whatever

[CremeLover]

11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

you can keep scouting without weapons with abigail, the nerf of her damage doesnt maker her less effective against small mobs and if you have trouble of being at 50% health near mobs maybe you should think about carry restoration items and helmet but isnt needed to farm spiders pigs or whatever

My point was that is a shift in playstyle and mentality when playing said character. Not that she's incapable of taking care of small mobs by herself. In fact, other than taking longer to kill small mobs, her regular playstyle will remain mostly unnafected other than some improvements in the way abigail is handled thanks to the new manageament mechanics and that you don't have to plan your day for anything, so that abigail is at her full force.

I'm not sure how I will adapt my playstyle with Wendy from now on, since I've never had any reason for being in low health before. I'll see how I handle it in the following weeks,