Automation Toggle

[bashkov]

Hiya,

I've been trying to tame a copper volcano, I am having some success cooling down the copper however I can't figure out the automation. Currently I have the copper dropping onto a steel door and this being cooled via liquid pipes. I have tried to toggle the door to open once the copper is below a certain temperature. From there it is carried away.

However.. because of the way I'm cooling it, once it drops below that temperature the door stays open and any new copper just falls straight through. Furthermore, thermo sensors don't seem to be recieving heat from the temp shift plate it's sat on. (the whole thing is vacuumed). I tried with it locked in an insulated box with a blob of gas but that didn't seem the best solution.

[ONIfreak]

What is temp you wpuld like door to be opened? 

I would use toggle on leaving pipe checking temp of liquid after extractong heat from copper. For example:

When petroleum ejters it has 50C extract 50C from copper so leaving at 100C but when copper is 50C it will leave at 50C so setting sensor to open door when temp is below 60C it will do the trick ( so it will open when petroleum is cold enough due to lack of heat). 

But this solutipn will work only if copper is cold enpugh or temp difference is not big ( because when you want to cool it down to 600C it will give 50C every time so it will not work). All numbers are just an example. 

[bashkov]

Heya,

 

so, I am cooling the liquid pipe with steam generators, so once the temperatures do settle I would want the doors to open when the copper is below 130 degrees, as generators cant cool past 124 degrees.

 

 

[ONIfreak]

So observe what is temp of liquod leaving when is fresh copper and when is ready to drop and set toggle as above example. Should work. 

[mathmanican]

I think an edge detector might be what you want.  Check this post ( @Saturnus gives a great explanation of three types, part way down). 

 

[bashkov]

Mathmanican, thanks for that, perfect. I've figured I need to let the water heat up to boiling first then I'll employ an edge detector.

 

:)))

[OxCD]

3 hours ago, mathmanican said:

I think an edge detector might be what you want.  Check this post ( @Saturnus gives a great explanation of three types, part way down). 

 

Yup. I'm still using this tip a lot.

[DemainaNyx]

A while ago I had a setup with a copper volcano.  The molten copper dripped onto a door in a vacuum.  The door was touching a row of metal tiles that connected to a steam room below a steam turbine.  The heat from the copper would be pulled through the doors into the steam and run the turbine to cool the copper until below 125 where I was dumped on the floor.

I unfortunately don't have the save so I can't upload an image of how I had that setup, and I've yet to build it in this playthrough, but here is how I basically automated the door.  The top filter gate is normally set to 200 seconds to prevent false positives, but I wanted something short for the video so it's just the default time.  The thermo sensor should be set to BELOW 125 but for the example I just manually toggled it to trigger.  When the thermo sensor drops below 125, it drops the stuff on the floor before closing again.  When temps go above 125, the door remains closed until the temp drops low enough again.

 

An alternative to the door dropping method is to just enclose your volcano in steam and directly let the steam gather the heat.  I was toying with that using a normal volcano but nakomaru's post here shows off a really nice design that encloses your volcano.  You wouldn't need quite as much as they have in their design, but it does a great job of pulling the temp out of the metal and gives you a nice cold spot to take that last 100C off the metal before use in your base.

 

[Xuhybrid]

Thermo sensors don't respond in a vacuum. It's quite an annoying bug which you have to take into account when placing them. One trick i've seen is to have a metal box with a liquid inside to cover your thermo sensor..

Personally i'd just put a steam turbine and some water above the volcano and call it a day.

[Xuhybrid]

30 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Or put them on a NOT gate and reserve the setting.

It doesn't make a difference. If they become a vacuum then it will never change it's signal. If the last signal was on, it's always on and vice versa.

[Xuhybrid]

Just now, Saturnus said:

Doesn't matter. If it becomes a vacuum again after starting up it's already passed the minimum temperature.

I'm lost here on what use case we're talking about. If we're talking about it being in steam, there's not really a need for a thermo sensor. I was more applying it to his current design where he has a vacuum. Using a liquid to trigger the sensor would solve the problem.

[SharraShimada]

9 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Thermo sensors don't respond in a vacuum. It's quite an annoying bug

Its no bug, its how the system works intentionaly by the devs. Heat is only transfered by a medium. So you need gas or liquid to transfer heat. In a vacuum, sensors cant detect anything, because there is nothing. Its a design choice, we have to respect, or change it with a mod. Its no use to compare it to real life behavior, because thats not real life.

[Xuhybrid]

6 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

Its no bug, its how the system works intentionaly by the devs. Heat is only transfered by a medium. So you need gas or liquid to transfer heat. In a vacuum, sensors cant detect anything, because there is nothing. Its a design choice, we have to respect, or change it with a mod. Its no use to compare it to real life behavior, because thats not real life.

Well for example, if it triggers above 250C and you drop the liquid out of the way, that sensor is still on. Is that a bug or expected behaviour?

[Gus Smedstad]

6 minutes ago, Xuhybrid said:

Is that a bug or expected behaviour?

It's expected behavior.

The thermal sensor doesn't report the temperature of the fluid or gas it's in. It reports the temperature of the thermal sensor. If it's in a gas or liquid, it exchanges heat with the gas or liquid to reach the temperature of the medium. If the sensor is in vacuum, it's not changing temperature at all, since vacuum is a perfect insulator.

[Xuhybrid]

2 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

It's expected behavior.

The thermal sensor doesn't report the temperature of the fluid or gas it's in. It reports the temperature of the thermal sensor. If it's in a gas or liquid, it exchanges heat with the gas or liquid to reach the temperature of the medium. If the sensor is in vacuum, it's not changing temperature at all, since vacuum is a perfect insulator.

Right. And the bug is that even if you switch it from above to below, the signal is still locked on.

[Gus Smedstad]

Yeah, that part is screwy. The sensor should be reporting on its own temperature, and above / below should still work. But as we know, it doesn't.

[SharraShimada]

6 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Right. And the bug is that even if you switch it from above to below, the signal is still locked on.

You set the sensor to "above 100°. The moment it hits 100,1°, it triggers to green. If you switch to below 100°, it wont change, because the temperature measured is still above that, at 100,1°. So the sensor wont change to red, because its not below. This is also no bug, but still as the system works. As long as there is no medium (any more), nothing will change at all. 

Of course i agree, its annoying. But as long as you keep the limiations in mind, there´s always a method to work around this. It may be not as convenient as we would like it, but this is part of the challenge. 

And thats the sole motivation Klei had in development of this game. It was not meant to be a simple simulation for casual players. It was meant for players, enjoying a challenge, to overcome obstacles and make e system work, not matter the odds. Everything else will be up to modders.

[Xuhybrid]

39 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

You set the sensor to "above 100°. The moment it hits 100,1°, it triggers to green. If you switch to below 100°, it wont change, because the temperature measured is still above that, at 100,1°. So the sensor wont change to red, because its not below. This is also no bug, but still as the system works. As long as there is no medium (any more), nothing will change at all. 

Of course i agree, its annoying. But as long as you keep the limiations in mind, there´s always a method to work around this. It may be not as convenient as we would like it, but this is part of the challenge. 

And thats the sole motivation Klei had in development of this game. It was not meant to be a simple simulation for casual players. It was meant for players, enjoying a challenge, to overcome obstacles and make e system work, not matter the odds. Everything else will be up to modders.

So you're saying if the sensor's temperature is 100.1C and i tell it to output green when below 100, it should still output green? Maybe you should rethink what you're saying. The only method to workaround it is to avoid a vacuum.