Refined Metals

[edibleplywood]

OK, what am I missing? In order to get refined metals I need either a rock crusher or a metal refinery. But in order to build either of those I apparently need a large power transformer. However in order to build one of those I need the refined metals I was trying to make in the first place.

[confer0]

The Rock Crusher only needs 240W, so you don't need a transformer to use it.

But if you really need to get refined metal without refining, there's lead in the oil biome.

[Gus Smedstad]

The rock crusher requires 400 watts. It's easily fed by a small transformer.

The metal refinery is 1200 watts. You can either make enough refined metal with the rock crusher to make a large transformer, or you can connect it directly to your main power backbone via Heavi Watt wire. The Heavi Watt wire handles 20 kw.

 

[Lilalaunekuh]

Don´t forget our friend here when it comes to refining metals

 

[Steve8]

The rock crusher also doesn't run all the time, so 400W now and then doesn't matter much

[abud]

Rock crusher 50% refined metal, smooth hatch 75%, metal refinery 100%

Usually I just do this for first 300kg refined metal.

Spoiler

1. Fill storage with 300kg metal ore
2. Queue 3x refined metal
3. Trap one dupe inside until he finished make 3 refined metal
4. Disable both coal generator
5. Make smart battery and automation cable beside coal generator to automate on-off
6. Enable both coal generator again
7. Continue producing refined metal for basic needs setting up proper metal refinery
8. Deconstruct this build so no dupes remember forced labor ever exist

 

[Nebbie]

2 hours ago, edibleplywood said:

OK, what am I missing? In order to get refined metals I need either a rock crusher or a metal refinery. But in order to build either of those I apparently need a large power transformer. However in order to build one of those I need the refined metals I was trying to make in the first place.

You do not need the large transformer for the rock crusher, regular wire will do.
You can use heavi-watt for the metal refinery. If it really needs to be on its own circuit, use 2 small transformers, as their outputs stack on the same wire.

You can also dig into an oil biome, where you will find plenty of freely-available lead to build conductive wires and such out of. Just mind it reduces overheat temperatures on buildings. It's perfect for steam turbines, as well. Metal volcanoes can provide your iron/copper/gold needs, and space can provide iron. Refined metals ultimately aren't that hard to acquire; the metal refinery primarily exists for steel.

[Gus Smedstad]

The oil biome's pretty hot. Hot enough to scald, which means you want enviroment suits and docks to exploit it safely, which in turn means you need refined metal before messing around down there.

In practice, while I do try and make the oil biome a priority, I find I need a moderate amount of refined metal well before I find it. For smart batteries, automation, and the like.

[Nebbie]

19 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

The oil biome's pretty hot. Hot enough to scald, which means you want enviroment suits and docks to exploit it safely, which in turn means you need refined metal before messing around down there.

In practice, while I do try and make the oil biome a priority, I find I need a moderate amount of refined metal well before I find it. For smart batteries, automation, and the like.

If your lead's below layers of oil, that's a problem. If however there's only puddles of crude, mop them up first and you'll be fine (cause liquids are what really makes dupes get scalded fast) and just need to send a dupe to the hospital every now and then.

[QuQuasar]

4 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

If your lead's below layers of oil, that's a problem. If however there's only puddles of crude, mop them up first and you'll be fine (cause liquids are what really makes dupes get scalded fast) and just need to send a dupe to the hospital every now and then.

Common Sense: "Don't climb into the 90 C pit of unbreathable death."
 
ONI: "Just go to the hospital occasionally and you'll be fine."

[Nebbie]

1 minute ago, QuQuasar said:

Common Sense: "Don't climb into the 90 C pit of unbreathable death."
 
ONI: "Just go to the hospital occasionally and you'll be fine."

The best part is not having available triage cots, so you tell the third dupe to get scalded trying to mine out that very last bit of fossil to just WALK IT OFF ON THE HAMSTER WHEEL

[LucidFugue]

3 hours ago, abud said:

Usually I just do this for first 300kg refined metal.

Do you race for automation? Smart Battery + Coal generator is my immediate priority after farming tech, because I have an aversion to keeping my dupes on hamster wheels. I usually don't actually research all the way to metal refinery as a result. I also get this sorted before I have plumbing tech, which you would also need.   

I'll get the rock crusher researched and built, run that on manual generator + batteries while the restof my basic research is going along (i.e. anything else that's a prerequisite for automated coal generators) , get 300kg of refined metals done, get the supercomputer built and finish up the smart battery research while the coal generator is built. If all is going well I can be on automated coal generators around cycle 6 or thereabouts. 

 

[abud]

4 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

Do you race for automation?

I didn't, or at least I didn't consider race for it. They are... very basic, no?

First refined metal that I need in my colony always for smart battery, of course with basic automation wire. What do you need refined metal before that point?

[LucidFugue]

2 minutes ago, abud said:

I didn't, or at least I didn't consider race for it. They are... very basic, no?

First refined metal that I need in my colony always for smart battery, of course with basic automation wire. What do you need refined metal before that point?

I agree - first refined metal for smart battery and automation wire. I say "race for automation" because I try to achieve smart battery + coal generator as early as possible to save dupe time on manual generators.  

I was commenting that your setup used a metal refinery instead of a rock crusher. It takes more research (plumbing and smelting at least), but you save dupe time on building and operating the rock crusher. I was curious if you had skipped the rock crusher to get your power automation setup faster, or if it was mostly about the conversion rate.  

[nakomaru]

I tend to keep them on wheels until they all have 20 machinery / 20 athletics, which takes a lot longer than reaching refined tech.

[abud]

I get it now. But I'm not sure how to answer this. Because in that early, usually I only concentrate on digging. By the time I feel enough space for basic activity, my +7 research already discover most of basic stuff. But yes, need additional research to skip rock crusher.

3 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

I tend to keep them on wheels until they all have 20 machinery / 20 athletics

Now there is someone with more extreme approach

 

[wd_]

4 hours ago, abud said:

Usually I just do this for first 300kg refined metal.

Usually, I do this for all of my metal! I don't think I've ever used a large transformer or fancy 2kW wires, I just have heavi-watt wires in every heavy machinery room (1000+W).

[cpy]

Uh what? Metal refinery - heavy watt wire - 2x high capacity battery - coal generator / manual generator, set coal to 10% and you wont even waste much power. No need for refined metal at all or rock crusher.

[edibleplywood]

Thanks for all the help. When you select either the rock crusher or the metal refinery it pops up with a help thing on the right refering to the large power transformer, so I kind of assumed they wanted me to build one of those to use them.

[bobucles]

Any machine can connect directly to heaviwatt wire, there's no rule against it. Normal wire is a convenience to save resources and protect decor ratings.

[Gus Smedstad]

12 minutes ago, bobucles said:

Any machine can connect directly to heaviwatt wire, there's no rule against it. 

Exactly. I started to write about this in my first reply to this thread, and then I decided I was rambling, rambling, rambling, and burying the main point. Which is that you can just connect stuff directly to your power backbone, no problem.

There are games which have transformers that behave like real-world ones, where there's voltages and step up transformers and step down transformers and power grids have a certain required complexity. Oxygen Not Included isn't one of them.

ONI's transformers don't transform anything, they just separate wiring grids. They only really exist so you aren't forced to use Heavi Watt wire for everything and everywhere once your power demand climbs over 1 KW. Connect the big side to your power backbone, the other to a light-gauge 1 KW or 2 KW wire, keep the demand on the sub-grid below that 1 KW or 2 KW limit, and you're fine.

Heavi Watt wire is more expensive, it has a significant decor penalty, but most of all it doesn't easily path through walls, and it can't cross other Heavi Watt wires. Joint Plates let you go through a single thickness of wall or floor perpendicularly, but you can't lay a stretch of Heavi Watt wire embedded in a floor. There is no such thing as a "Heavi Watt Bridge" the way there are 1 KW and 2 KW bridges.