Bathroom Loop

[Ksajural]

I haven't played with the release version coming tomorrow but I have seen different setups and gameplay, however I could not understand if the changes brings to the water sieve create problems to the classic infinite bathroom loop, the water temperature rises gradually until to become a problematic heat source?

[nakomaru]

The sieve produces some heat while operational, but nothing like the huge generation of turning 20c water into 40c water like it used to. Generally it's easier to introduce in your base.

[avc15]

i.e. if you're using cool filter medium the loop should stabilize at some moderate temperature.

in theory.

[nivodeus]

if you started with a nice 16-20 degree it would take a long time for it to heat up,besides your sieve doesnt run all the time, that gives it time to cool down. I have been using my loop since cycle 50 or somethng and it's been going steady at 22-24°C at cycle 450-ish. 

And if you are worried you could always leave a cold water supply pipe near the input, and use it once the sieve gets too hot and let the cold water cool down the building for a few cycle. 

Another thing is the filtration medium somehow also determine the output of the water (Im not sure but I think this could be why my sieve still running relatively cool, since my sand is roughly about 18-20 °C.

It could be a problem but for a much longer time than when the sieve outputting at fixed 40°C i would say. Previously my bathroom would be insulated to prevent the heat seeps into my nearby room but now use normal building tile. 

[Gurgel]

If you have some regulated cooling in your base that should take care nicely of any heating in the bathroom loop. 

[bobucles]

If anything, you can generate cold using a bathroom. Cold toilet water = cold piss.

The water sieve in live will always generate 40C output, which ironically made it both one of the highest heat producers AND heat deleters at the same time. In beta the filtered output will keep the input water temperature, and slowly drift towards the sand temperature. If the polluted water is too hot or cold pipes will break, but that is a minor symptom of a much larger problem.

[Nickerooni]

3 hours ago, bobucles said:

If anything, you can generate cold using a bathroom. Cold toilet water = cold piss.

The water sieve in live will always generate 40C output, which ironically made it both one of the highest heat producers AND heat deleters at the same time. In beta the filtered output will keep the input water temperature, and slowly drift towards the sand temperature. If the polluted water is too hot or cold pipes will break, but that is a minor symptom of a much larger problem.

I’ve found my toilet water output is always 4-5 degrees hotter than the input.

[CDoroFF]

2 hours ago, Nickerooni said:

I’ve found my toilet water output is always 4-5 degrees hotter than the input.

With high probability you have more than one imput or not insulated pipes. Neiter latrine nor water sieve change water temp significantly.

[Nickerooni]

Just now, CDoroFF said:

With high probability you have more than one imput or not insulated pipes. Neiter latrine nor water sieve change water temp significantly.

Nope. Water comes in guaranteed to be no higher than 28 degrees and the output is always 32-33 degrees. It’s pretty easy to verify. I let the water get hotter to see if it was fixed output, but the output got hotter as well. I was going to use the increased water output to keep my sieve (and some other small apparati) cool. No dice.

It’s just a few degrees of a small amount of water, so it’s not game breaking or anything.

[CDoroFF]

2 minutes ago, Nickerooni said:

Nope. Water comes in guaranteed to be no higher than 28 degrees and the output is always 32-33 degrees. It’s pretty easy to verify. I let the water get hotter to see if it was fixed output, but the output got hotter as well. I was going to use the increased water output to keep my sieve (and some other small apparati) cool. No dice.

It’s just a few degrees of a small amount of water, so it’s not game breaking or anything.

Really weird. My loop have never gave me so much heat. The significant temp rise occured when I decided to filter few tiles of 50­­­°C PetroGen output, but it was completely stable before.

[nivodeus]

Same with mine,at most it will rise 1-2 degree but no more than that. It could be the filtration medium or somewhere alongside there is some heat transfer happening. Or prob a possible bug. 

[ONIfreak]

I wonder if you can produce steam using sieve. 

[BaloneyOs]

6 hours ago, Nickerooni said:

Nope. Water comes in guaranteed to be no higher than 28 degrees and the output is always 32-33 degrees. It’s pretty easy to verify. I let the water get hotter to see if it was fixed output, but the output got hotter as well. I was going to use the increased water output to keep my sieve (and some other small apparati) cool. No dice.

It’s just a few degrees of a small amount of water, so it’s not game breaking or anything.

This is interesting. Maybe they actually made dupes "output" at body temp? It would be a pretty sensible change and the only real explanation other than hot sand / hot ambience.

[nakomaru]

6 hours ago, ONIfreak said:

I wonder if you can produce steam using sieve. 

You can and it will break your pipes unless you keep packets small. Plastic press can print naphtha, etc 

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, BaloneyOs said:

This is interesting. Maybe they actually made dupes "output" at body temp? It would be a pretty sensible change and the only real explanation other than hot sand / hot ambience.

Just tested this. Sinks are input=output. But Lavatories seem to add 6.7kg of water at 37C (tested with 10C and 44C input), the rest is input temperature.

Makes sense when you think about it. And is not a problem, it just serves as one more instance where dupes regulate environment temperature towards 37C, whether they are above or below it. Hence long-term, any well insulated bathroom loop will just converge to a bit above 37C, eliminating the heat-contribution of the water-sieve and pump nicely. 

[MeesterButts]

9 hours ago, Nickerooni said:

Nope. Water comes in guaranteed to be no higher than 28 degrees and the output is always 32-33 degrees. It’s pretty easy to verify. I let the water get hotter to see if it was fixed output, but the output got hotter as well. I was going to use the increased water output to keep my sieve (and some other small apparati) cool. No dice.

It’s just a few degrees of a small amount of water, so it’s not game breaking or anything.

What is the temperature of the sand in the sieve?

[thcana]

Water in toilet go out at the temperature of entering water + some balancing with the toilett himself.
So bathroom loop is perfect for creating cold. 
Let do the math for 10 dupe going to toilet : you need 100 liter to fullfill the toilet tank and get 150 liter of water of same temperature

If you start with 30°C water, you use the aqualizer to make 100liter at 16°C doing so, you make 14x100x4.179 dtu temp (5.8 MDTU)
Toilet output is 150liter (let say 20°C output, taking some heat from the toilet room = cooling your base), you use this water to coodown the aqualizer so you make this water going back to 30°C (taking 10x150x4179 DTU = 6.26 MDTU)

So even if water go from 16 to 20 in your toilet, the loop go cooler each cycle (make the loop go in room you want to cool down, 

[Gurgel]

26 minutes ago, thcana said:

Water in toilet go out at the temperature of entering water + some balancing with the toilett himself.

It is actually 5kg stored (that interacts with toilet temperature, but does not get cooled or heated otherwise) and 6.7kg new at 37C, see my posting above.

[thcana]

29 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

It is actually 5kg stored (that interacts with toilet temperature, but does not get cooled or heated otherwise) and 6.7kg new at 37C, see my posting above.

Testing that with more data should be interesting, the fact is, i tested this loop with 16 dupe, 1 water sieve and 1 aquatuner, the total make heat depletion.
I started with 30°C water and 25°C bathroom (all in gold but if it change anything, it's only the time for the system to balance). After 100 cycle, my water was at 5°C and the bathroom was at 16°C (+ a lot of "heat polluted water" at 22°C that you can use to take more heat from your refinery and send to pepper who need heat and polluted water)

[Gurgel]

1 minute ago, thcana said:

Testing that with more data should be interesting, the fact is, i tested this loop with 16 dupe, 1 water sieve and 1 aquatuner, the total make heat depletion.
I started with 30°C water and 25°C bathroom (all in gold but if it change anything, it's only the time for the system to balance). After 100 cycle, my water was at 5°C and the bathroom was at 16°C (+ a lot of "heat polluted water" at 22°C that you can use to take more heat from your refinery and send to pepper who need heat and polluted water)

Interesting. Any chance there was some other source of cooling? There is not much water going through these pipes and in my regular base I did not notice the 37C at all as the water was at the 25C ambient I keep my base at after a few pipe segments. I had to test this in the sandbox.

[thcana]

First test is easy, a 5°C tank with 5°C room with 5°C toilet and output tank. 
The more annoying things about this setup to test is the dupe needing to use the bathroom.
For the 100 cycle test, i needed a lot of energy and food stored and a good video for waiting. I tryed with 160 dupe for 10 days but you need to many toilets (and i used ingame sandbox, so, no copy-paste)
 

[Gurgel]

16 minutes ago, thcana said:

First test is easy, a 5°C tank with 5°C room with 5°C toilet and output tank. 
The more annoying things about this setup to test is the dupe needing to use the bathroom.
For the 100 cycle test, i needed a lot of energy and food stored and a good video for waiting. I tryed with 160 dupe for 10 days but you need to many toilets (and i used ingame sandbox, so, no copy-paste)
 

That 5C toilet and room will cool the water down. Toilet and input water exchange heat and so does toilet and room.

The water I put into the toilet building for my 44C test was actually 60C, but cooled down due to the building being 25C and the test-dupe not immediately using it. When you look at the toilet itself, you can observe this effect nicely.

[KittenIsAGeek]

21 hours ago, Ksajural said:

I haven't played with the release version coming tomorrow but I have seen different setups and gameplay, however I could not understand if the changes brings to the water sieve create problems to the classic infinite bathroom loop, the water temperature rises gradually until to become a problematic heat source?

What I've found is that the sieve introduces a small amount of heat into the liquid, but most goes into the environment around the filter.  The filtration medium, however, has a much larger impact on the output temperature of the water.  Finally, specifically with the bathroom loop, duplicants using the latrines will output polluted water at 30c.  For very long run times, this means that the loop will stabilize near 30c, so long as other sources of heating or cooling aren't sufficient to counter the duplicant's output.

[thcana]

54 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

That 5C toilet and room will cool the water down. Toilet and input water exchange heat and so does toilet and room.

The water I put into the toilet building for my 44C test was actually 60C, but cooled down due to the building being 25C and the test-dupe not immediately using it. When you look at the toilet itself, you can observe this effect nicely.

You obviously start with 5°C clean water in toilet tank = no heat exchange.
When a dupe use it you have 11.5°C of polluted water going of the toilet immediatly, so the exchange is almost null.

Then simple math : output temp = (5°C x 5L (clean water) + "piss temp" x 6.5L ) / 11.5L (i kept the unit to show where i take my number from)
So, piss temp = (11.5 x output temp - 25)/6.5

[Gurgel]

21 minutes ago, thcana said:

You obviously start with 5°C clean water in toilet tank = no heat exchange.
When a dupe use it you have 11.5°C of polluted water going of the toilet immediatly, so the exchange is almost null.

Then simple math : output temp = (5°C x 5L (clean water) + "piss temp" x 6.5L ) / 11.5L (i kept the unit to show where i take my number from)
So, piss temp = (11.5 x output temp - 25)/6.5

6.7 instead of 6.5 (and 11.7 instead of 11.5), but correct otherwise. I would really be surprised if this gives you anything else than 6.7kg of 37C pwater added per lavatory usage. Does not seem to be anything that needs a long-term measurement.