Easy Heat Deletion

[Satyrical364]

Pincha Pepper for the win. I recreated one of my earliest designs from back in fertilizer synth power plant days; an aquatuner cooling module using polluted water as both a coolant and heat sink. 

It is so easy to delete heat this way if you have a supply of polluted water and either gold amalgam or steel for the machinery. All heat goes into polluted water, and when it reaches near boiling point, the water is sent to pincha pepper plant farm and is entirely deleted along with the heat.

Overview: 

Plumbing: 

Automation: 

 

In more detail, the insulated pool on the left is super-cooled polluted water resting near freezing point. This water is sent to a metal refinery, or circulates through the base in granite pipes if the metal refinery doesn't need it, and sucks up heat. The water returns to the coolant tank. A thermo-sensor just prior to a shut-off intake determines if the water is warm enough for another pass through the aquatuner tank to the right. If it is, it goes to the aquatuner to be cooled and then returns to the coolant tank.

If the polluted water reaches near boiling point, a thermo sensor in the aquatuner tank sends the polluted water to the Pincha Pepper Plants above, and it is simultaneously replaced with cooler water from a nearby slime biome. Dreckos feed on the plants and produce enough phosphorite to fertilize the plants in perpetuity.

The cooling provided by this module is really great; my powerplant went from 110F down to about 60F now in a few dozen cycles (sorry I use F). 

Water sieve was nice, but this is great too. 

[phod]

4 minutes ago, Satyrical364 said:

(sorry I use F). 

I use Freedom units as well, but use Celsius in ONI, simply to get a feel for what the rest of the world uses.

[Satyrical364]

1 minute ago, phod said:

I use Freedom units as well, but use Celsius in ONI, simply to get a feel for what the rest of the world uses.

I've tried but the will is just not there. It's like trying to learn another language and I'm just not up for it

[oosyrag]

Not that hard...

0 Frozen - 32F - Freezer, Ice

10 Cold - 50F - Refrigerator, AC air

20 Cool - 68F - Nice day in the shade, Room Temp

30 Warm - 86F - Beach/pool weather

40 Hot - 104F - Hot shower. People start feeling melty when the air is this temperature, but not normally life threatening.

50-90 Deadly Hot - 122F to 194F - These are the temperatures you want to cook steak at. Dupes generally do not appreciate being cooked, even medium rare.

100 Boiling Hot - Steam. Skin contact not recommended.

 

Edit: Added in F and references, since I guess its not really fair to just say something is easy with a list to memorize.

[Siromatik]

I'm using a similar setup for heat deletion, I'm just not dropping PW in the pool anymore, which is already flooded with Oil. Instead PW is circulating trought radiants pipes and go out of the system with a pipe temp sensor when desired temp is reached. So I save that 240W of power from the pump. You don't even need Steel as your system will stay under 100°C. You can even go without any gold if you stay under the 75°c Overheat Temp, but you have almost no margin error and need a lot more metal (tempshift). Then drop that heat in Pincha Farms like you do.
I also added a pipe temp sensor at the input of the system if PW already come hot (from a metal refinery for exemple) and a thermo sensor for security reasons linked to the aquatuner.

Had to explain this to someone some days ago, she get the idea but I don't know if its clear for ppl lost about Temp Units, each K point is equivalent to a Celcius point, it's just a different starting point in the scale :
0  K= -273°C Absolute Zero
273K = 0°C   Water freeze point
293K = 20°C  Starting biome temp
348K = 75°C  Base Overheat machine
373K = 100°C Boiling point
473K = 200°C etc...
You clearly see a pattern, like +18F for each +10°C on @oosyrag exemple.

[Andz]

A lot of things in the game break physics. I mean it's just a game after all and it should not be overly complicated but fun.

But this temperature thing especially is so rude. The heat is basically thrown in my face because I can not ignore it and then in the back of my mind I always have a list of "alternatively used game mechanics" how to magically delete it. I feel constantly like exploiting, and it's not a good feeling having grown up with WoW. I am used to these kind of shortcuts being hotfixed over night.

But in this game exploits are revered as being creative, that deeply concerns be. Because in my view it shows that the other game mechanics that (mostly) work without OBVIOUSLY violating laws of nature are either not exciting enough or there are not a lot of them. Then maybe it's just that some players, after two years, already tried all the stuff there is to do and looking for other ways of fun. Some bugs are not being fixed for months and months and to me it leaves the impression the game complexity is growing over the heads of this studio.

Unintuitive things, in my view, just are no fun, because nobody would think about trying them out. Getting back to this post now. Like I would never have thought about isolating my water pipes that feed into crops. Because following general logic, hot water into a plant results in a hot plant. Instead an isolated pipe into a plant results in a plant that did not heat up. But the water just went into this plant. Where is the energy gone? And the fix would be so easy. Just make the hydroponic tile having water in "storage" and they must have have a minimum storage of x liter. That way the system can no longer be isolated perfectly, because the tile conducts heat from the internal storage to the plant, and nobody would ever notice there is no perfect thermodynamically correct system in place.

Wouldn't it be much more cooler to try things that acutally are somehow in contact with the real world? Like plants evaporating water (=disappearing: absorbed by wall etc.) with thier leaves and actually cooling down the environment? It's actually done in cities where trees are being planted against heat. Planting plants with foliage against warming. We are already feeding some of them with liquid anyway. Assuming dupes water decorative plants from time to time (without making it a mechanic, maybe an Idle animation, or a morale action "gardening" +1 done in the free time), the dupes with warm bedrooms have to plant a few Bluff Briar plants to let the temperature go down 1-2°C. See what I mean? It uses existing game mechanics. It can be implemented without changing the "one tile one element" philosophy. The application is dynamic, in response to the environment. It's not obvious, but following some logic it makes sense and it followes natures laws. It's an extra benefit without being a punishment if you don't know it (hello old style water sieve). It triggers exploration (find more seeds). It has progression (new seeds in other bioms only). It has anti-exploit features: 1) limited amount of seeds 2) each plant has growth optima. It has fun challenges: How to contain the zombie plant which will be most effective.  It adds a layer to plant usage beyond decor and agriculture.

Now compare that to clothesline rope hanging from your ceiling, 3 refrigerators at the wall and then moving lima beans around your ceiling and repeatedly in(=deleting the heat)/out the fridge for cooling a room. It's fun figureing it out, it's colourful, it's crazy. But it does only appeal a certain kind of audience.

I am sorry I could not give a heart to the OP, I hope everyone continues to have fun with the game. I just see the potential of this game and I would like to make constructive suggestions on how to make it more deep. Thank you for being nice to each other here.

[Nickerooni]

I’m actually surprised that the pincha peppers don’t overheat. I guess the cooler pool on top keeps things manageable.

I tried to make steel early game using the PW heat deletion of reed fibers. Long story short - I wouldn’t recommend it. The temperature delta is a bit too much and the Ice-E fan really is as dupe heavy as people say.

Thinking about it: I used to use early game PW pools as metal refinery coolant paired with the water sieve as a fast and dirty setup. I sometimes wouldn’t even be efficient about it and I’d just have the PW go through the refinery once. Just makes the heat manageable.

Honestly, a small, insulated pincha pepper room with no dreckos might actually be even easier to set up than the sieve was for heat deletion.

[Snotfroth]

I like using pincha peppers to remove heat by feeding them hot water. It makes sense in game world logic too because, well, they're spicy so of course they love hot water.

I've thought the devs should encourage this by bumping up their overheat temp to 100c and adding to the in-game help something along the lines of "pincha peppers thrive on polluted water -- the hotter the better!"

[nivodeus]

I like this idea in a sense that, the deletion is part of the game design. Im sure some people will say it's an exploit while some say it's a gimmick or a mechanic. This make sense to me, that the heat recycled by the plant. maybe the plant used the heat as part of its energy source

[Christophlette]

On 23/07/2019 at 3:54 AM, oosyrag said:

40 Hot - 104F - Hot shower. People start feeling melty when the air is this temperature, but not normally life threatening.

It honestly depends. 40°C is just unbearable for most french people. 30°C is already hard to live where I live (North of France). I don't know where you live but damn, if you can handle 40°C you're a beast.

[Saturnus]

I've had great success in teaching adult immigrant Americans that move to Europe (or anywhere else than the USA) to use the Celsius system by just memorizing the 18F = 10C difference, and then memorizing this 5 point list:

C = F = -40 (at -40 F and C scale converge)
0C = 32F (freezing point of water)
37C = 99F (body temperature)
100C = 212F (boiling point of water)
160C = 320F (point where F=2C, 160C/320F is used at lot as the lowest regular setting on an oven)

Remembering the 18F=10C and this list, and using them regularly then you shouldn't have a problem for all every day purposes.

[Siromatik]

@Christophlette It's already 38°C (Center of France) and it's only 11' o"clock, but air still moslty dry, can't even imagine where it's wetter !

[Satyrical364]

17 hours ago, Nickerooni said:

I’m actually surprised that the pincha peppers don’t overheat. I guess the cooler pool on top keeps things manageable.

I tried to make steel early game using the PW heat deletion of reed fibers. Long story short - I wouldn’t recommend it. The temperature delta is a bit too much and the Ice-E fan really is as dupe heavy as people say.

Thinking about it: I used to use early game PW pools as metal refinery coolant paired with the water sieve as a fast and dirty setup. I sometimes wouldn’t even be efficient about it and I’d just have the PW go through the refinery once. Just makes the heat manageable.

Honestly, a small, insulated pincha pepper room with no dreckos might actually be even easier to set up than the sieve was for heat deletion.

The aquatuner is bringing the overall heat of my base down enough that I think that room will remain in good enough temperatures for the pincha peppers. I initially was using reed plants but it became too hot for them, so the next logical choice was peppers since they tolerate MUCH hotter temperatures.

[nivodeus]

Will they at some point get overheat? The room i mean. It seems that despite using insulated pipes, the farm temp tends to rising ever so slowly. 

[Saturnus]

18 minutes ago, nivodeus said:

Will they at some point get overheat? The room i mean. It seems that despite using insulated pipes, the farm temp tends to rising ever so slowly. 

Yes. It will eventually overheat but you can still use it to the 85C overheat point of the pincha peppers safely which is still quite a substantial amount of heat deletion.

[oosyrag]

10 hours ago, Christophlette said:

It honestly depends. 40°C is just unbearable for most french people. 30°C is already hard to live where I live (North of France). I don't know where you live but damn, if you can handle 40°C you're a beast.

Unbearable yes, but you won't die if you're hydrated... You guys are in the middle of 40C+ heat wave right now right?!

 

[bobucles]

14 minutes ago, oosyrag said:

Unbearable yes, but you won't die if you're hydrated... You guys are in the middle of 40C+ heat wave right now right?!

The difference between dry heat and wet heat is everything in the world. People can literally survive in an oven with baking cookies as long as the air is dry and they stay super hydrated. Add a touch of humidity to that situation and it's all over.

[Sebastiangperez]

11 hours ago, Christophlette said:

It honestly depends. 40°C is just unbearable for most french people. 30°C is already hard to live where I live (North of France). I don't know where you live but damn, if you can handle 40°C you're a beast.

Try to live on the Noth of Argentina... sometimes reaches at 55º ... nice and warm, like the Sahara 

[Lurve]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Yes. It will eventually overheat but you can still use it to the 85C overheat point of the pincha peppers safely which is still quite a substantial amount of heat deletion.

If you add a valve to limit water to just what the peppers will use, the water is deleted immediately on arrival and it only transfers heat in transit.  Plus an ice maker pool over the top of them, and they should be capable of eating heat indefinitely.

That might even work better with reed fiber, given its thirst and survival in meltwater.  Cool the plant directly, overheat the hell out of everything else.

[Saturnus]

Just now, Lurve said:

If you add a valve to limit water to just what the peppers will use, the water is deleted immediately on arrival and it only transfers heat in transit.  Plus an ice maker pool over the top of them, and they should be capable of eating heat indefinitely.

That might even work better with reed fiber, given its thirst and survival in meltwater.  Cool the plant directly, overheat the hell out of everything else.

I don't see a benefit of actively cooling something that is supposed to delete heat unless you can show that the amount of cooling needed is less than the heating this added cooling generates.

[nivodeus]

39 minutes ago, oosyrag said:

Unbearable yes, but you won't die if you're hydrated... You guys are in the middle of 40C+ heat wave right now right?!

 

I will melt away. We are experiencing heat wave this week. If I were a superhero, warm would be my kryptonite. 

Spoiler

 

But if you add valve, the water in the pipe between transit would still be transferred to the surrounding. Sometimes I feel that ONI is more about Heat management simulation rather than colony building. I spend most of the time, flipping heat back and forth to keep a nice temp around my base. It's fun but can get a bit frustrating to some extent. 

Quote

I don't see a benefit of actively cooling something that is supposed to delete heat unless you can show that the amount of cooling needed is less than the heating this added cooling generates.

This was my concern exactly. 

[Lurve]

30 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I don't see a benefit of actively cooling something that is supposed to delete heat unless you can show that the amount of cooling needed is less than the heating this added cooling generates.

The heat deletion comes from deleting the irrigated water.  You'd only be cooling the small amount of incidental escaped heat, to keep the deletion running.

[Nickerooni]

33 minutes ago, Lurve said:

If you add a valve to limit water to just what the peppers will use, the water is deleted immediately on arrival and it only transfers heat in transit.  Plus an ice maker pool over the top of them, and they should be capable of eating heat indefinitely.

That might even work better with reed fiber, given its thirst and survival in meltwater.  Cool the plant directly, overheat the hell out of everything else.

I tried with reeds to limit the flow to each plant. They take 266 g/sec and I fed them 200 g/sec 85 degree water. The problem was they wouldn’t start sucking up the water until they had at least 1000g or so in reserve. This wasn’t noticeably better than keeping the max 5kg of hot PW in reserve. I surrounded the irrigation tiles with insulated tiles and had them sitting in CO2, and it still wasn’t worth it to keep them cool. Possible, but not worth it. In the end, they were usually consuming 50 degree water and bleeding the other 30 degrees to the environment.

[Saturnus]

8 minutes ago, Lurve said:

The heat deletion comes from deleting the irrigated water. You'd only be cooling the small amount of incidental escaped heat, to keep the deletion running.

I'm not seeing any hard numbers here, or any test set up to prove your point, so I'll assume you're just guessing.

Also, look at @Nickerooni's response above.

 

[Lurve]

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I'm not seeing any hard numbers here, or any test set up to prove your point, so I'll assume you're just guessing.

Also, look at @Nickerooni's response above.

 

Of course I'm guessing.  I'm WAY more obnoxious when I know what the hell I'm talking about.

I've started fiddling with a setup and as it happens, Nickerooni's both right and wrong.  Yes, reeds need 1 kg of water to start up, but then they'll keep growing until they run out.  If you're quick with the flow settings, you can catch it when the farm tile is practically empty, and supply exactly as much as they need for each water packet to be absorbed as it leaves the pipe, leaving just a tick for each water packet to interact before it's deleted.  Unfortunately when I was testing using meltwater as extra thermal mass I forgot to check sweep only, and friggin Ari brings a ton of ice in from a melting ice biome.  So now the setup's warming up again.  We'll see.