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Can we stop using germy water for shower and hand washing?


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Since the fixed temperature got reworked, I suggest maybe we can pay attention to the situation that the sink and shower will accept germy water as input. Although it is really convenient to build a bathroom with a circling pipe and a water sieve. But it's against common sense that we can bath in germy water become germ-free. As we got liquid reservoir to make disinfect liquid much easier, maybe we can consider making a change.

P.S. Can we get a machine which can automatically disinfect liquid with chlorine/bleach stone/ potassium alum(using the new Al) like in real life?

P.S.2 I hope oxylite refinery can refine bleach stone too, cause I use hand sanitizer in late-game for cute animation and getting rid of pipe. I think it's important to have different access to certain consumable resources.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vohahrv said:

P.S. Can we get a machine with can automatically disinfect liquid with chlorine/bleach stone/ potassium alum(using the new Al) like in real life?

We should have a bleach stone refinery as well, I love this idea

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1 hour ago, vohahrv said:

P.S. Can we get a machine which can automatically disinfect liquid with chlorine/bleach stone/ potassium alum(using the new Al) like in real life?

We can already build one, in several different ways.

Which is much more engaging than just a machine you plop down and plug in.

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I believe the machine should be less efficient and more power-draining than the pufts, like the oxylite refinery, but still a fairly early mid-game solution

18 minutes ago, Yunru said:

We can already build one, in several different ways.

Which is much more engaging than just a machine you plop down and plug in.

I think that the germ removal liquid reservoir should be more apparent and guided to or have some sort of alternative that's more obvious, for newer players.

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1 hour ago, vohahrv said:

Since the fixed temperature got reworked, I suggest maybe we can pay attention to the situation that the sink and shower will accept germy water as input. Although it is really convenient to build a bathroom with a circling pipe and a water sieve. But it's against common sense that we can bath in germy water become germ-free. As we got liquid reservoir to make disinfect liquid much easier, maybe we can consider making a change.

It's hard to create a contradictory system wherein a building specifically designed to remove germs would have to add more germs onto the duplicant. A contradiction like that might end up sucking the universe through that temporal tear. :wilson_curious:

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Lets just make all basic mechanisms more tedious and problematic!

I vote for hand-washing and showering only working with water at 24.5C to 25.5C and dupes just ignoring the stations otherwise. Anybody can easily fulfill that requirement, obviously.

I also think that germs in food storage should multiply (except when cooled) and should grow from one thing to another. That is, after all, how a _real_ refrigerator works!

I am also for requiring light everywhere and applying a -10 Athletics debuff in unlit areas. Dupes navigating in the dark at full speed is just unrealistic and should really be fixed.

Klei should also address that stuff falling on dupes does not hurt them. This is extremely unrealistic. I say, have them lose 10% health for every 100kg that falls on them! 

And finally, those hamster wheels need to cost extra calories. Dupes running all the time obviously need to eat more. I say triple the calorie intake for them. The current behavior is just a massive exploit. 

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3 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Lets just make all basic mechanisms more tedious and problematic!

[...]

The current behavior is just a massive exploit. 

Nah, instead let's just be sarcastic at length at the idea that washing in raw sewage and coming out clean might constitute unintuitive gameplay. Remind me not to shake hands with you ;) 

Seriously, I think it's long overdue to fix this, but it does raise the whole question of wth is polluted ungermy water vs germy unpolluted water and that may require some Klei thinking, but I remember this being one of my biggest facepalm moments when I discovered the stupid idea that we needed to purify water to wash dupes but it could be as germy as hell, only don't have them drink it because THAT will make them sick lol

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1 minute ago, Skrivener said:

Nah, instead let's just be sarcastic at length at the idea that washing in raw sewage and coming out clean might constitute unintuitive gameplay.

What is this "wah-shing" you speak of?

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5 minutes ago, Skrivener said:

Nah, instead let's just be sarcastic at length at the idea that washing in raw sewage and coming out clean might constitute unintuitive gameplay. Remind me not to shake hands with you ;) 

An AdHominem does not make you right. And neither does boundless hyperbole. In case you have not noticed, the "raw sewage" in this game is a thing called "polluted water". And, as you have apparently not noticed either, it cannot be used in hand-washing. Incidentally, tap-water having some germs in it is quite standard in many places of the world, so not even the "realism" argument applies.

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12 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

[snip]

Okay, if we're going that root,

  • Duplicants should splatter and die after falling from far heights
  • Duplicants should immediately die and explode when subjected to over/under pressurized environments
  • Dupes should suffocate when subjected to too hot/cold breathable oxygen
  • Dupes should get stress statuses when showering in too hot/cold water
  • Dupes should be able to be crushed to death
  • Dupes should be frozen solid after long-term exposure to sub-zero temperatures
    • Which means they ded
  • Dupes should also instantly die in an explosion

Now the funny thing for all of this is, I actually have precedent for all of the things I mentioned. :wilson_sneaky:

Spoiler

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_CRUSHED
public class DEATH_CRUSHED
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants crushed";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants have been crushed:";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_FELL
public class DEATH_FELL
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants splattered";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants fell to their deaths:";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_FROZENSOLID
public class DEATH_FROZENSOLID
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants have frozen";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants died from extremely low " + UI.PRE_KEYWORD + "Temperatures" + UI.PST_KEYWORD + ":";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_OVERPRESSURE
public class DEATH_OVERPRESSURE
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants pressurized";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants died in a high pressure environment:";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_RAPIDDECOMPRESSION
public class DEATH_RAPIDDECOMPRESSION
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants pressurized";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants died in a low pressure environment:";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_SUFFOCATEDAIRTOOCOLD
public class DEATH_SUFFOCATEDAIRTOOCOLD
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants have suffocated";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants have asphyxiated in " + UI.FormatAsLink("cold", "HEAT") + " air:";
}

// STRINGS.MISC.NOTIFICATIONS.DEATH_SUFFOCATEDAIRTOOHOT
public class DEATH_SUFFOCATEDAIRTOOHOT
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Duplicants have suffocated";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "These Duplicants have asphyxiated in " + UI.PRE_KEYWORD + "Heat" + UI.PST_KEYWORD + " air:";
}

// STRINGS.DUPLICANTS.MODIFIERS.BURNED_BY_SCALDING_WATER
public class BURNED_BY_SCALDING_WATER
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Scalded";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "Ouch! This Duplicant showered or was doused in water that was way too hot";

	public static LocString CAUSE = "Obtained by exposure to hot water";
}

// STRINGS.DUPLICANTS.MODIFIERS.STRESSED_BY_COLD_WATER
public class STRESSED_BY_COLD_WATER
{
	public static LocString NAME = "Numb";

	public static LocString TOOLTIP = "Brr! This Duplicant was showered or doused in water that was way too cold";

	public static LocString CAUSE = "Obtained by exposure to icy water";
}

 

 

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My point is, the argument about realism only has merit when it really is applied everywhere. Just using it for something you do not like, but not for other things that are unrealistic makes you suspiciously look like somebody using pseudo-arguments. Well, people that require an in-detail justification from everybody else, but play fast and lose with "arguments" themselves are a sad fact of life.

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6 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

My point is, the argument about realism only has merit when it really is applied everywhere. Just using it for something you do not like, but not for other things that are unrealistic makes you suspiciously look like somebody using pseudo-arguments. Well, people that require an in-detail justification from everybody else, but play fast and lose with "arguments" themselves are a sad fact of life.

It's called suspension of disbelief.

There is no all-or-nothing when it comes to this. 

It's a spectrum, some elements, like heat deletion, and 30kg dupes being able to lift 5 times their weight are all reasonable. Meanwhile the simple fact that somehow water laden with germs somehow removes germs is something that has a much higher potential to break someone's suspension of disbelief. It's as simple as that.

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We shouldn't make fun of each other when discussing topics that we disagree with, instead, we should acknowledge each other's opinions and discuss.

I really don't want to sound passive-aggressive when I say this, but I've been seeing a lot of this hostility lately.

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3 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

It's called suspension of disbelief.

No, it is called a dishonest argument. Either you require realism or not. You cannot do this partially and be honest. Reality is not a buffet where you pick and chose. I am merely pointing out that for something like ONI, the "realism" argument is entirely and fundamentally bogus.

Now, if you say you dislike something and explain this in a game-related fashion, that is something else. But demanding "realism" is not acceptable as an argument.

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42 minutes ago, Skrivener said:

Seriously, I think it's long overdue to fix this, but it does raise the whole question of wth is polluted ungermy water vs germy unpolluted water and that may require some Klei thinking,

The way I decided to think of it was impurities vs. germs -- urine is definitely far from water, but technically sterile. Or you could have still-water that is 99.9% H20 but has a ton of germs living in it. I'm curious to see what conclusions other people have come to though!

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1 minute ago, Squeegee said:

We shouldn't make fun of each other when discussing topics that we disagree with, instead, we should acknowledge each other's opinions and discuss.

I really don't want to sound passive-aggressive when I say this, but I've been seeing a lot of this hostility lately.

Thank you, I realized upon reflection that I'd thrown in some rather rude remarks that I really shouldn't have made. ^^;

Just now, Gurgel said:

No, it is called a dishonest argument. Either you require realism or not. You cannot do this partially and be honest. Reality is not a buffet where you pick and chose. I am merely pointing out that for something like ONI, the "realism" argument is entirely and fundamentally bogus.

...what you're asking for is impossible. There has to be some grounding in reality otherwise you cannot do anything, that's what realism is.

Even a game as balls to the walls nuts as Hotline Miami has some semblance of grounding in reality.

This is why "realism" isn't a binary thing, it's a spectrum. ONI does in fact have quite of bit of realism at its core, such as Ethanol coming from cellulose (wood), state conversion, conservation of mass, etc.

Those are all realistic, and breaks the harsh all-or-nothing "realism" definition right out the gate.

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3 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

No, it is called a dishonest argument. Either you require realism or not. You cannot do this partially and be honest. Reality is not a buffet where you pick and chose. I am merely pointing out that for something like ONI, the "realism" argument is entirely and fundamentally bogus.

While I respect your opinion, I believe that in a fictional medium, it's okay to have a mixture of reality and non-reality. While the game has a lot of moments that aren't entirely realistic, things like washing your hands with germy water seem like something that'd confuse new players. Adding a way to purify it completely would both enrich the skill factor, and make more technical sense. However, I think an easier way of cleaning the water should be implemented. 

 

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3 hours ago, vohahrv said:

Since the fixed temperature got reworked, I suggest maybe we can pay attention to the situation that the sink and shower will accept germy water as input. Although it is really convenient to build a bathroom with a circling pipe and a water sieve. But it's against common sense that we can bath in germy water become germ-free. As we got liquid reservoir to make disinfect liquid much easier, maybe we can consider making a change.

P.S. Can we get a machine which can automatically disinfect liquid with chlorine/bleach stone/ potassium alum(using the new Al) like in real life?

P.S.2 I hope oxylite refinery can refine bleach stone too, cause I use hand sanitizer in late-game for cute animation and getting rid of pipe. I think it's important to have different access to certain consumable resources.

 

 

It's something that really shocked me, so i'm going to have to +1 it here, but it should come after release.
PS1: already said in the topic, we can do this already, we might want to add a machine that does it, but it's really not necessary.
PS2: PLEASE YES

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i for one don't want the simulation further bogged down with irrelevant computations.  We REALLY don't need to add s.. Feces and urine to the game.  its a called a compromise.  the suspension of disbelief comes in where you and i have to accept that this isn't real.

I think adding more realism can be fun and don't agree its an all or nothing thing.

we are getting/have gotten more realisitic heat now after all :)

instead of being shocked that 'dupes use urine' or anything like that accept the fact that due to the limits of games it gets simplified. 

If you need guidance to do that.. pretend the building converts it so its no longer what it was and is instead polluted water or dirt :)

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