Can we stop using germy water for shower and hand washing?

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, DaveSatx said:

[snip]

Dear god no, that's a fastrack to getting a higher ESRB/PEGI rating. 

[BaloneyOs]

This would be a pretty neat idea if they buffed the sink, shower, hand sanitizers, and bleach stone in general. Having to depend on Puft ranching at any stage of the game seems to be hated by many and understandably so. "Bleach stone refinery" does sound really boring though so maybe they need a more creative alternative.

Perhaps buff the storage capacities of buildings that require bleach stone? Farms hold an abysmal amount of bleach stone for lettuce and buffing hand sanitizer probably wouldn't break the game either. This way you can choose between disinfecting water for sinks or spending some gofer labor and dealing with chlorine offgassing.

Or the simple solution is to just up their germ susceptibility or keep some germs when washing with germy water since disease isn't a major punishment anymore. On the flip side using non-germy water to wash could give a small morale bonus or some other buffs.

[vohahrv]

I'm sry, didn't intend to raise such a heated argument. But I am sad to be called trolly. In fact, I didn't expect to meet totally different opinions. Really shocked though :3. Only expect to be criticized for talking the same issue again.

Here is my opinion about reality and gameplay. Oni "copy" quite a lot to let us use our experience in reality and other game to quickly adapt to the game. Gravity, food, oxygen consumption, and Minecraft in 2D(maybe, at least the sand falling down seems a reference to me). So that's why the rocket is so thrilling to me, we can launch a rocket into space! Burning liquid oxygen and hydrogen.

So that's why the germy water issue seems not good to me. Cause the in-game logic didn't match. The germ was spread through physical contact and the sink is the real sink in reality. So the two rules fall into conflict.  But It's really not a big issue, don't mind.

P.S. So I guess those oppose this suggestion also think door-pump is ok. Cause although I consider it as normal but will not willingly use it. Hope dev will give us another way to manage large quantities of gas and liquid.

Anyway, have a good day, we all hope oni get better and better.

Can I change the title?  Want a more neutral one.

[Glassyfo]

14 minutes ago, DaveSatx said:

i for one don't want the simulation further bogged down with irrelevant computations.  We REALLY don't need to add s.. Feces and urine to the game.  its a called a compromise.  the suspension of disbelief comes in where you and i have to accept that this isn't real.

I think adding more realism can be fun and don't agree its an all or nothing thing.

we are getting/have gotten more realisitic heat now after all

instead of being shocked that 'dupes use urine' or anything like that accept the fact that due to the limits of games it gets simplified. 

If you need guidance to do that.. pretend the building converts it so its no longer what it was and is instead polluted water or dirt

I don't think it'd be that much of a change if washing with dirty water made the dupe dirty. Polluted water has to be dealt with either way, the difference between plumbed and non-plumbed would be just the dupe time required.

[Gurgel]

31 minutes ago, Squeegee said:

While I respect your opinion, I believe that in a fictional medium, it's okay to have a mixture of reality and non-reality. 

Oh, sure. But the argument something should be changed in the game because it is "not realistic" is bogus. That argument is only valid if you require everything to be realistic and that is obviously not possible or even a good idea.

32 minutes ago, Squeegee said:

While the game has a lot of moments that aren't entirely realistic, things like washing your hands with germy water seem like something that'd confuse new players. Adding a way to purify it completely would both enrich the skill factor, and make more technical sense. However, I think an easier way of cleaning the water should be implemented. 

That is just the thing: Probably several billion people on this planet wash their hands with water that is not sterile. The "realism" argument is completely broken here, because it is not even true. Unless you think this is a "first-world, tap-water is always drinkable and sterile" game? 

 

[Glassyfo]

2 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Oh, sure. But the argument something should be changed in the game because it is "not realistic" is bogus. That argument is only valid if you require everything to be realistic and that is obviously not possible or even a good idea.

That is just the thing: Probably several billion people on this planet wash their hands with water that is not sterile. The "realism" argument is completely broken here, because it is not even true. Unless you think this is a "first-world, tap-water is always drinkable and sterile" game? 

 

Isn't the argument that if dupes wash with dirty water the action should be useless? That is totally true in real life.

[DaveSatx]

8 minutes ago, vohahrv said:

I'm sry, didn't intend to raise such a heated argument. But I am sad to be called trolly. In fact, I didn't expect to meet totally different opinions. Really shocked though :3. Only expect to be criticized for talking the same issue again.

 

I see this as a discussion with strong opinions.  no one pulled out swear words or names so... its a really tame argument.  Arguing isn't something to be avoided.  especially relatively civil ones.   I personally felt this post MIGHT be a troll attempt.. you know, the kind of idiot who posts something to get other people yelling and then fades away.   glad its not

11 minutes ago, vohahrv said:

ct to be criticized for talking the same issue again.

Here is my opinion about reality and gameplay. Oni "copy" quite a lot to let us use our experience in reality and other game to quickly adapt to the game. Gravity, food, oxygen consumption, and Minecraft in 2D(maybe, at least the sand falling down seems a reference to me). So that's why the rocket is so thrilling to me, we can launch a rocket into space! Burning liquid oxygen and hydrogen..

the rocket and space is still thrilling to me and i've been playing what feels like forever sometimes.  i still love this game although at times i have to put it down to 'reset' my expectations.  i was initially a bit grumpy they fiddled with heat rather than give us new content - then on re-examining how i felt and what was in game, realized it really was more content.

remember its a simulation and the reality we see isn't in 1:1 verisimilitude with reality and likely for any game will likely never be.
Typically players who can grow the flexibility of their expectations tend to have more fun   I certainly don't mean expectations like 'this UI should be clear and easy to use' but rather 'stoves in real life use gas AND electricity and produce waste and food'' and then get grumpy when oni emulates part of that.

 

don't get me started on things like door pumps.  I like them.  they are non trivial things and fun to design - i do them fresh every iteration in order to catch changes that weren't announced or perhaps intended   much more fun than a simple building that holds more

[lunazone]

11 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

That is just the thing: Probably several billion people on this planet wash their hands with water that is not sterile. The "realism" argument is completely broken here, because it is not even true. Unless you think this is a "first-world, tap-water is always drinkable and sterile" game? 

While I agree that it's not a necessary feature and that total realism shouldn't be required. However, washing your hands with dirty infected water in real life is still counter-intuitive.

I don't think this feature is necessary, but I think it could be a fun addition if executed correctly.

 

[DaveSatx]

1 minute ago, Squeegee said:

While I agree that it's not a necessary feature and that total realism shouldn't be required. However, washing your hands with dirty water in real life is still counter-intuitive.

where in ONI does it let you wash with polluted water?  if by dirty water you mean water with germs in it.... thats just what water is. even our water in real life-  from a lake,.pond or most (ugh) swimming pools.

[lunazone]

Just now, DaveSatx said:

where in ONI does it let you wash with polluted water? 

Apologies, I misspoke (or mistyped), I meant to say "infected"
I'll correct it

[Dosephshih]

Honestly i agree that the mechanism of the details may not be very realistic. I think if adding more complicated system to make the water germ free is too difficult for early game around cycle 20 (for new player) when we set up the washroom loop. That's why the game just ignore this issue at the moment.

Personally i think a funny game should be in between reality and something magical. I recall the time when i play "The Sims" the first time about may be 20 years ago. I tried and give up quickly. In the game I find that the time is running so quickly, and you need to work, need to eat, need to sleep, need to do everything just only to survive, and earn so little money. I think it is exactly what the hard life in reality. Therefore, I give up this game because it is not enjoyable to just repeating the real life.

And i like ONI so much because it is just at the right level of reality vs non-reality for me.

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, DaveSatx said:

where in ONI does it let you wash with polluted water?  if by dirty water you mean water with germs in it.... thats just what water is. even our water in real life-  from a lake,.pond or most (ugh) swimming pools.

Okay, just think of it as lead water.

Lead water is bad, no matter if you're drinking it, or washing in it.

Now replace lead with disease-ridden.

[DaveSatx]

1 minute ago, watermelen671 said:

Okay, just think of it as lead water.

Lead water is bad, no matter if you're drinking it, or washing in it.

Now replace lead with disease-ridden.

and i repeat my statements about the simulation.  that is way more detail than is necessary or useful for the game.

hell i'd have fun dealing with metal contamination in water.  but the gains are way less than the costs in computing.

[lunazone]

Just now, Dosephshih said:

I think if adding more complicated system to make the water germ free is too difficult for early game around cycle 20 (for new player) when we set up the washroom loop

I totally agree that it could be too complicated early game, wash-room water doesn't have to be re-used into the washroom. It can be fed to bristle berries and other plants. Adding a crude germ removal building could add an extra layer of engineering that could be engaging for some people.

[vohahrv]

2 minutes ago, watermelen671 said:

Lead water is bad, no matter if you're drinking it, or washing in it.

 

So spend 10$ to make your duplicants suffer more. Perfect, take my money.

[watermelen671]

Just now, DaveSatx said:

and i repeat my statements about the simulation.  that is way more detail than is necessary or useful for the game.

hell i'd have fun dealing with metal contamination in water.  but the gains are way less than the costs in computing.

You can use lead to make pipes. I think there should be a "You monster" achievement for that.

[DaveSatx]

Just now, Squeegee said:

I totally agree that it could be too complicated early game, wash-room water doesn't have to be re-used into the washroom. It can be fed to bristle berries and other plants. Adding a crude germ removal building could add an extra layer of engineering that could be engaging for some people.

the crude germ removal building is already in game.. the wash basin.  lol

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, vohahrv said:

So spend 10$ to make your duplicants suffer more. Perfect, take my money.

Precisely. Now give Klei all your money.

[lunazone]

Just now, DaveSatx said:

the crude germ removal building is already in game.. the wash basin.  lol

Ah, sorry, I meant a pipe based germ exterminating building that could be created early on.

[Dosephshih]

1 minute ago, DaveSatx said:

the crude germ removal building is already in game.. the wash basin.  lol

I just remember someone in other post mention, just imagine there is a built-in soap at the wash basin, therefore it will help to remove germs. 

Then, we may feel better with it.

[Glassyfo]

2 minutes ago, DaveSatx said:

the crude germ removal building is already in game.. the wash basin.  lol

It doesn't remove germs, it converts water into dirty polluted water. A crude germ removal building would be a liquid reservoir in chlorine.

[DaveSatx]

Just now, Dosephshih said:

I just remember someone in other post mention, just imagine there is a built-in soap at the wash basin, therefore it will help to remove germs. 

Then, we may feel better with it.

that was me     thanks for saving me from repeating myself

[watermelen671]

Just now, Dosephshih said:

I just remember someone in other post mention, just imagine there is a built-in soap at the wash basin, therefore it will help to remove germs. 

Then, we may feel better with it.

Just use ethanol. Problem solved.

[vohahrv]

Just now, Dosephshih said:

I just remember someone in other post mention, just imagine there is a built-in soap at the wash basin, therefore it will help to remove germs. 

Then, we may feel better with it.

Nailed it.

[DaveSatx]

Just now, bleeter6 said:

It doesn't remove germs, it converts water into dirty polluted water. A crude germ removal building would be a liquid reservoir in chlorine.

thats a building project     since it removes the germs from the dupes and puts it in the polluted water it does indeed classify as a crude germ removal building.