A simple germ killer that processes a continuous full pipe of input.

[Tonyroid]

You are going to look at it and think "That won't work." But it works. The same thing works for gasses, presumably.

Screenshots (I used extra space to make it easy to see):

Video:

 

[Yunru]

Do note that without a constant input, you're going to have delays as water cycles clean. 

 

[Nightinggale]

I'm not certain I trust this one. What if the left reservoir outputs germy water, it goes back into the reservoir, but due to other germy water arriving, it backs up. Now if it releases non-germy water and that germ free gets stuck on the sensor, the germy water in front of it might escape out to the germ free water.

I did an experiment using High Flow Storage reservoirs. I placed them on doors and let the reservoirs control them with a "below 4500 kg" signal. This means the reservoir will only output if there is at least 4500 kg in it. I then placed 3 in a row (2 wasn't enough) and it turns out that due to being in chlorine combined with germ rounding of output when the reservoir is nearly full, water can flow through it and become germ free. It can handle 30 kg/s. Admittedly it's right on the edge meaning if you add really germy water very quickly, germs might slip through. Adding another reservoir should fix that.

 

 

[Tonyroid]

5 hours ago, Yunru said:

Do note that without a constant input, you're going to have delays as water cycles clean. 

 

That's true. Is there some way to do disinfection without a delay, theoretically?

3 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

I'm not certain I trust this one. What if the left reservoir outputs germy water, it goes back into the reservoir, but due to other germy water arriving, it backs up. Now if it releases non-germy water and that germ free gets stuck on the sensor, the germy water in front of it might escape out to the germ free water.

If you don't trust it, it's because you haven't tried it out yet. I knew everyone was going to think it doesn't work, but it works. I talk a bit about why it works in the video.

[Nightinggale]

9 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

If you don't trust it, it's because you haven't tried it out yet. I knew everyone was going to think it doesn't work, but it works. I talk a bit about why it works in the video.

Feel free to proof it to not work

The question is if it can fail in edge cases. Just like any other constant flow setups, it will break if the input has a billion germs/kg. The question is what is the realistic upper limit it can encounter? Also you can add sensors to the output to be completely sure.

[Tonyroid]

6 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

Feel free to proof it to not work

The question is if it can fail in edge cases. Just like any other constant flow setups, it will break if the input has a billion germs/kg. The question is what is the realistic upper limit it can encounter? Also you can add sensors to the output to be completely sure.

I tested it with the highest germs I could get in the sandbox. But that was only 1.2 million per tile of ph2o. So it's technically not tested for more than that but I bet that it can handle ANY concentration of germs because it has substantial extra capacity and high germ concentrations fall very fast in Cl.

I'll try to figure out how to concentrate germs and see what the limit is. Regardless, as many reservoirs as necessary can be added following the pattern, so if it needs higher capacity then it can be easily adapted to work.

The output uses a germ sensor, so unless it fails for some reason there are no germs in the output. In the sandbox I used another germ sensor attached to a memory toggle so I could check whether any germs ever got through and I never saw any, not one.

[Yunru]

1 hour ago, Tonyroid said:

The output uses a germ sensor, so unless it fails for some reason there are no germs in the output.

The problem would be extremely edge case. You'd need a germy packet sat on the input to the valve (probably due to backing up), and a germ-free packet sat on the sensor. Chances are that's only going to happen when one packet is small enough that the next time it gets diluted it divides to zero, so very little germs should get through even in that case. 

In the worst case, you could add holding tanks after it to get rid of it. 

[Saturnus]

The problem with a build like this is that it requires a germ sensor which requires plastic to build.

Most player will have need for a disinfecting build way before they have access to plastic.

It's also shooting for 10kg/s throughput which is entirely redundant.

The vast majority of players will never have a need to disinfect more than 5kg/s at the most. And should they ever have the need, they could just build another one at 5kg/s throughput.

There's several builds on the forum already that satisfies the no plastic and 5kg/s throughput limits that are easy to build

[Tonyroid]

3 hours ago, Yunru said:

The problem would be extremely edge case. You'd need a germy packet sat on the input to the valve (probably due to backing up), and a germ-free packet sat on the sensor. Chances are that's only going to happen when one packet is small enough that the next time it gets diluted it divides to zero, so very little germs should get through even in that case. 

In the worst case, you could add holding tanks after it to get rid of it. 

Oooh. This makes sense. Yeah, it has that vulnerability, but I can't conceive of how it would be possible to get more than 1-2 germs through at a time and only very rarely. I think it's worth neglecting instead of adding hardware to handle that case.

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

The problem with a build like this is that it requires a germ sensor which requires plastic to build.

Most player will have need for a disinfecting build way before they have access to plastic.

It's also shooting for 10kg/s throughput which is entirely redundant.

The vast majority of players will never have a need to disinfect more than 5kg/s at the most. And should they ever have the need, they could just build another one at 5kg/s throughput.

There's several builds on the forum already that satisfies the no plastic and 5kg/s throughput limits that are easy to build

It does need a bit of plastic. Everything else you wrote seems to argue that nobody should bother doing something that is easier and better when something that is more complicated and less capable would be sufficient. That seems like a weird point of view to me.

[JohnFrancis]

@TonyroidNice design, I like the way you take advantage of overflow mechanics. Also like the way you can set it up quickly and just walk away and it will do it's thing.

One thing to note, if you have three linked full tanks of germ free polluted water (in chlorine) and automate them to only allow output when more water tries to enter the system it will let 0 germs through. Little bit more effort to setup and you end up with 15 tons of water sitting in the tanks but it removes the need for plastic.

 

[kerosene]

All you need is a single tank, liquid shutoff and pipe germ sensor. Keep the water in a short loop that passes through the tank. Allow water without germs to exit the loop. This cannot handle frequent or large inputs however.

 

[Neotuck]

18 hours ago, Tonyroid said:

Everything else you wrote seems to argue that nobody should bother doing something that is easier and better when something that is more complicated and less capable would be sufficient. That seems like a weird point of view to me.

The point he was trying to make is that it's unlikely players will have a constant 10kg flow of infected PW that needs to be disinfected 

You would need about 3 infected PW geysers total to reach that

[Saturnus]

16 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

The point he was trying to make is that it's unlikely players will have a constant 10kg flow of infected PW that needs to be disinfected 

You would need about 3 infected PW geysers total to reach that

And even then, only a minor part would require disinfecting.

Technically speaking you hardly need to disinfect any water at all. I like to disinfect water for electrolyzers, showers, and bathrooms just for my own personal preference even though it's technically not needed.

I however have no problem with feeding plants germy water. After all, the food is cooked and it's entirely realistic that you'd use germy water for irrigation.

So in my opinion 5kg/s corresponds to the total needs of at least 35 dupes. There's hardly any players that would require more than that.

[Neotuck]

I posted a build a long time ago that allows 10kg/s flow.  Called it the Septic System V3 and it can be built without plastic

 

2 hours ago, kerosene said:

All you need is a single tank, liquid shutoff and pipe germ sensor. Keep the water in a short loop that passes through the tank. Allow water without germs to exit the loop. This cannot handle frequent or large inputs however.

or just use a filter gate with A 120 second delay to kill all germs in a tank

works well with bathroom loops

 

[hpongledd]

If you check Neotucks thread. There is a simplified version of your build.

[Saturnus]

Here's my current scalable solution

So a 9.9kg/s module would look like this:

The idea here is that one clock sensor opens the input for 33% of a cycle then after 67% of the cycle have passed the output is opened for 33% of a cycle. There's left a 1% of a cycle gap between the output starting to close and the input opening again. This gives a throughput of 3.3kg/s with one reservoir, 6.6kg/s with 2 reservoirs, and 9.9kg/s with 3 reservoirs.

You may need a buffer reservoir depending on your use case.

[Flydo]

On 08/06/2019 at 12:23 PM, Yunru said:

Do note that without a constant input, you're going to have delays as water cycles clean. 

 

You need to make a boulce with a bypass

[JackOverkill]

@Saturnus  can i have the save ?

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, JackOverkill said:

@Saturnus  can i have the save ?

I didn't make a save. Should be fairly easy to build and test though.

[Tonyroid]

5 hours ago, kerosene said:

All you need is a single tank, liquid shutoff and pipe germ sensor. Keep the water in a short loop that passes through the tank. Allow water without germs to exit the loop. This cannot handle frequent or large inputs however.

 

Yep. I'm very quantity-oriented in my solutions, but it's not always the right thing for everyone.

3 hours ago, Neotuck said:

The point he was trying to make is that it's unlikely players will have a constant 10kg flow of infected PW that needs to be disinfected 

You would need about 3 infected PW geysers total to reach that

And... therefore they ought to do something more complicated because they "probably" won't need so much throughput? I get that every solution has benefits and drawbacks but I don't have any idea why you'd give up some benefits because you don't need some other benefits. I mean... maybe there's an even simpler thing out there, or someone is REALLY hooked on avoiding plastic, and that's all fine, but those are different things than throughput.

2 hours ago, hpongledd said:

If you check Neotucks thread. There is a simplified version of your build.

Can you be more specific? I either don't see anything simpler or we are different in our judgement of what "simpler" means.

[Neotuck]

[Tonyroid]

I made one that uses nothing but 4 reservoirs and some pipes. (And Cl, of course). Unforunately, I don't think it's possible to minimize it this much without having to keep all the reservoirs full.

I know it's limit for germ concentrations is above 1.3 million (per tile of ph2o) and below 5 million.

[hpongledd]

21 hours ago, Tonyroid said:

Can you be more specific? I either don't see anything simpler or we are different in our judgement of what "simpler" means.

No plastic. No powers. Does the same

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, hpongledd said:

No plastic. No powers. Does the same

Yup. Same as my builds. No plastic is the very important part. It doesn't matter if it's only 50kg of plastic you need. For someone who hasn't set up plastic yet it might as well be 50 tonnes. And naturally, no power consumption either but that's pretty much a given.

[Nightinggale]

Just now, Saturnus said:

And naturally, no power consumption either but that's pretty much a given.

No it's not. I once dumped polluted water into a dedicated sealed room, heated the water to 110 C (makes it germ free) and then pumped it out. Works fine, but it's not power free. It was however a way to get rid of heat from aquatuners prior to the current steam turbine.