Celestial Brainstorming

[b_legend]

The celestial altar is a pain to put together, but there really isn't anything useful you can craft with it, except maybe the sword. Obviously, they have to add more uses, because the celestial altar can't not be in balance with the shadow altar (Ancient Pseudoscience Station), right? For this power-balance thing to make sense, the moon and shadow altars should be equally powerful. That means we need an equal to the shadow manipulator in moon power and some more items. Any Ideas?

 

[Mooagain]

What is a shadow altar?

[BeliarBAD]

3 hours ago, Mooagain said:

What is a shadow altar?

[S19TealPenguin]

unless @b_legend is talking about the Ancient Pseudoscience station (which is more analogous to the moon altar anyway)

[BeliarBAD]

lol what does the ancient station has to do with shadows???

its thulecity which is used the most and they are golden. gold is the material of the light. not of the shadows.

none of the items are considered dark magic. starcaller staff, crowns...

shadow manipulator is dark magic with the use of nightmare and the items drain sanity

nvm...

[kiwikenobi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of the things you can craft with the ancient pseudoscience station require nightmare fuel to craft? And the magiluminescence, which is golden and bright, actually runs on nightmare fuel. And is the lore not that the ancient civilization underground fell specifically because of their overuse of the fuel? I'm pretty sure it's the "shadow altar."

[BeliarBAD]

yes sure but the maglkofjeifnifefasf amulett xxD is making light. i didnt say you dont need nightmare and living logs but you need more ressources which are associated with light like thule, yellow-orange-green gems...

at the shadow manipulator you only need dark magic ressources like nightmare, living logs and purple gems. blue and red gems are also more on the dark side then on the light and they united transform to purple gems.

i dont say im right. the shadow manipulator isnt an altar. but calling the ancient station the shadow altar also doesnt sound right 

1 hour ago, kiwikenobi said:

the magiluminescence, which is golden and bright

its symbolizing the sun. the opposite of shadows and darkness

[Fjedjik]

I hope we can use the irridecent gem and glommer wings/flower in the celestial altar in a future update
They all have a connection with the moon!

[The 2C3D]

On 2019-06-05 at 1:59 AM, BeliarBAD said:

lol what does the ancient station has to do with shadows???

its thulecity which is used the most and they are golden. gold is the material of the light. not of the shadows.

Everything. The Ancients have everything to do with the shadows.

Also, Thulecite is also filled with nightmare fuel, no matter what colour it is.

I normally have more sympathy then this for people missing things in ideas and theories, because it’s something I’m quite fond of doing myself. This sympathy does not entirely extend to people making up reasons to invalidate other people perfectly reasonable ideas.

Let’s take a look at the relations between The Ancients and shadows to see if it’s reasonable to set them up as the opposite of the celestial being(s). 

Thulicite is not at all a “light” component. Despite it’s coloration, it is very much related to the shadows. The easiest way to demonstrate this is Wagstaff’s examination quote for it: “That captivating dark fuel is concentrated in these stones.” If you are not convinced, please refer to the thulecite statues in the ruins during the active phase of the ruins, as they will begin to ooze nightmare fuel

Not only is thulecite itself heavily tied to the shadows, but The Ancients themselves (including, by extension, their ancient pseudoscience station) have quite the history with shadows. They discovered it, after all. In the first of the ancient murals, they are shown to be a sad, weak and desperate people until an event forgotten by history occurs in the second, unreadable, mural. The next mural depicts them gaining incredible power from tons of nightmare fuel, as observed by Wickerbottom “A dark shadow, or perhaps a substance, [nightmare fuel] overtakes the civilization.” and Maxwell, “They gained such an enviable power...”.

Nightmare fuel is woven so deeply into The Ancients themselves, changing them permeantly. The clearest corporeal example of this is the Ancient Guardian. When they’re examined by Maxwell, he says “My, my, the fuel has changed you.” In the murals, there is further evidence that these nightmare fueled changes were not only responsible for the creation of the Ancient Guardian, but also caused The Ancients themselves to become... the Shadow Creatures, further tying them to the shadows. This is depicted in the fourth mural, judging by these quotes:

Wilson: “The people are shedding their skins. They look different underneath.”

Other notable lines for the same mural help confirm this isn’t a normal molting, but the birth of shadow monsters:

Wendy: “Then, Rebirth.” (Her preceding line notes that “they are consumed by darkness” preceding this rebirth)

Webber: “A picture of bug people escaping their bug outsides!”

Wolfgang: “Monsters is bursting out of them!” (Curiously, Wolfgang doesn’t consider normal ancients to be monsters, he calls them “sad, weak people”. The creatures he sees emerge therefore are something other, that even Wolfgang recognizes as fundamentally different.)

 

If you want to make up your own theories and ideas, by all means go ahead. It’s quite enjoyable. Just don’t make up inaccuate reasons why other people’s ideas are invalid.

[Maxposting]

WX literally says a city bathed in clean ink...

^{WHAT OTHER ''INK'' THERE IS? ITS LITERALLY THE BLACK FUEL!}

Have you considered that the fuel is not a symbol of dark ( like purple gem is ) but rather more the evil and powerful them?

that way it makes sense that most of gems run on the fuel because they shapeshift its power...

6 hours ago, BeliarBAD said:

blue and red gems are also more on the dark side then on the light and they united transform to purple gems.

 

blue and red literally make up the purple colour. go figure.

[BeliarBAD]

2 hours ago, The 2C3D said:

Everything. The Ancients have everything to do with the shadows.

Also, Thulecite is also filled with nightmare fuel, no matter what colour it is.

I normally have more sympathy then this for people missing things in ideas and theories, because it’s something I’m quite fond of doing myself. This sympathy does not entirely extend to people making up reasons to invalidate other people perfectly reasonable ideas.

Let’s take a look at the relations between The Ancients and shadows to see if it’s reasonable to set them up as the opposite of the celestial being(s). 

Thulicite is not at all a “light” component. Despite it’s coloration, it is very much related to the shadows. The easiest way to demonstrate this is Wagstaff’s examination quote for it: “That captivating dark fuel is concentrated in these stones.” If you are not convinced, please refer to the thulecite statues in the ruins during the active phase of the ruins, as they will begin to ooze nightmare fuel

Not only is thulecite itself heavily tied to the shadows, but The Ancients themselves (including, by extension, their ancient pseudoscience station) have quite the history with shadows. They discovered it, after all. In the first of the ancient murals, they are shown to be a sad, weak and desperate people until an event forgotten by history occurs in the second, unreadable, mural. The next mural depicts them gaining incredible power from tons of nightmare fuel, as observed by Wickerbottom “A dark shadow, or perhaps a substance, [nightmare fuel] overtakes the civilization.” and Maxwell, “They gained such an enviable power...”.

Nightmare fuel is woven so deeply into The Ancients themselves, changing them permeantly. The clearest corporeal example of this is the Ancient Guardian. When they’re examined by Maxwell, he says “My, my, the fuel has changed you.” In the murals, there is further evidence that these nightmare fueled changes were not only responsible for the creation of the Ancient Guardian, but also caused The Ancients themselves to become... the Shadow Creatures, further tying them to the shadows. This is depicted in the fourth mural, judging by these quotes:

Wilson: “The people are shedding their skins. They look different underneath.”

Other notable lines for the same mural help confirm this isn’t a normal molting, but the birth of shadow monsters:

Wendy: “Then, Rebirth.” (Her preceding line notes that “they are consumed by darkness” preceding this rebirth)

Webber: “A picture of bug people escaping their bug outsides!”

Wolfgang: “Monsters is bursting out of them!” (Curiously, Wolfgang doesn’t consider normal ancients to be monsters, he calls them “sad, weak people”. The creatures he sees emerge therefore are something other, that even Wolfgang recognizes as fundamentally different.)

 

If you want to make up your own theories and ideas, by all means go ahead. It’s quite enjoyable. Just don’t make up inaccuate reasons why other people’s ideas are invalid.

what are you talking???

when did i say his idea is invalid?

he was calling the ancient station the shadow altar.

you know the name is ancient pseudonic stattion or somnethink like that. the name isnt shadow altar. thats all i said.

and light and shadows are the opposite but that doesnt mean they arent related.

and your arguement is so.... im better not say the word. your argument is they have to do with each other. heres a spoiler: evrything in the game has to do with each other. so what the hell do you wanna tell me?

and better dont tell me anything. call the stations by their names and not some imagined names from creatures which are around them lol

and i dont have sympathy for people which put so much work in a post to prove someone wrong who actually didnt said anything. 

and lets dont talk about the fact that you quoted my first post but we had already more post where we clearified the problem.

here again for you noob:

light is the sun. evrything yellow and bright and positive sanity

shadows are dark. evrything black and negative sanity

but they are both related to each other. you have no light without shadows and you have no shadows without light

39 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

blue and red literally make up the purple colour. go figure.

red is fire and blue is winter freezing. both more considered to be evil. go figure

[The 2C3D]

On 2019-06-05 at 11:33 AM, BeliarBAD said:

he was calling the ancient station the shadow altar.

you know the name is ancient pseudonic stattion or somnethink like that. the name isnt shadow altar. thats all i said.

It sure took a whole lot of words to say just that. It had been proposed that the Celestial Altar, which uses Celestial magic should be set up as the opposite to the ancient pseudoscience station (misnamed as the shadow altar), which uses shadow magic, and that they should be set up as equal in power. After TealPenguin correctied the misnomer, (b_legend has reacted to this confirming such) correctly naming it the ancient pseudoscience station, you said this:

On 2019-06-05 at 1:59 AM, BeliarBAD said:

lol what does the ancient station has to do with shadows???

This is not saying “the name isnt shadow altar.” This says that the ancient (pseudoscience) station has nothing to do with shadows. This means that the juxtaposition between it and the celestial altar could not stand up. Your subsequent post added nothing of value to the discussion, aside from defending your previous statement that the APS cannot be related because they use light-related resources such as thulecite. I quoted the original post because it was the original statement I responded to. 

 

I think some of the confusion is coming from this idea:

On 2019-06-05 at 11:33 AM, BeliarBAD said:

here again for you noob:

light is the sun. evrything yellow and bright and positive sanity

shadows are dark. evrything black and negative sanity

but they are both related to each other. you have no light without shadows and you have no shadows without light

There are only two magical forces we are aware of in the constant. Shadow Magic and Celestial Magic.

Shadow magic is not the based in literal absence of light, it is magic based in nightmare fuel. Nightmare fuel, and thus shadow magic, can create visible light, as demonstrated by it’s use in the Night Light (and fuel for the Magiluminescence, thought you’ve attributed that to some light-based magic.)

Celestial magic is newly introduced and poorly understood, but it is not used in the Magiluminescence.

Light is not a force of magic. The Magiluminescence does not use light magic as fuel. It uses the shadow magic of nightmare fuel as fuel. Not everything that emits light is “light magic” The Magiluminescence uses shadow magic to emit photons (light). This is why it uses nightmare fuel as fuel. The Magiluminescence seems to emit light by pulling it from the sun, as demonstrated by it’s crafting description: "Pull power from the heavens." This in not light magic. There is no light magic. This is shadow magic being used to pull light from the heavens.

Hopefully this clears up the discrepancy between literal darkness and shadow magic.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, BeliarBAD said:

 

red is fire and blue is winter freezing. both more considered to be evil. go figure

yeah uh...

tell me how those are evil ( aside from maxwell being a troll jerk and mixing the gems with hounds.

[The 2C3D]

19 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

yeah uh...

tell me how those are evil ( aside from maxwell being a troll jerk and mixing the gems with hounds.

Edit: This post is the big dumb., but I don’t want to just delete all my mistakes. That’d be disingenuous.

Turn back now, or resign your sanity forevermore, for Beliar has invented a new classification of magic.

There’s now evil shadow magic, (which is real) and good light magic, (which is a little extra-canonical.) Not to be confused with celestial magic, which is real.

[BeliarBAD]

8 hours ago, The 2C3D said:

Turn back now, or resign your sanity forevermore, for Beliar has invented a new classification of magic.

There’s now evil shadow magic, (which is real) and good light magic, (which is a little extra-canonical.) Not to be confused with celestial magic, which is real.

ARE YOU SERIOUS???? you need a doctor lol. you are talking like light and dark magic really exist and its science which we are talking aboiut...

AGAIN!!!! i dint say anything. i just wanted to help this guy to find the word which he was missing.

he said shadow altar. 

wiki: An altar is a structure upon which offerings such as sacrifices are made for religious purposes

so the ancient pseudonic station is an altar?????

hell no

he called it shadow altar. altar is completely wrong so what to do with the shadows. he was searching for something thats called shadows.

and then i said shadow manipulator. and you guys said no thats wrong its the ancient bla bla. and i saiud why you called it shadows.

ancient bla bla station isnt a shadow altar. THATS ALL I SAID. nothing more

and btw it starts lightning when you stand next to it. so a shadow altar would make light..... okkkkkkkkkkkkkkk i dont think so but nvm you psychos know better....

jesus buy yourself a life. i just wanted to help in this thread here. not discuss about lore because my english is to bad for that.

i never said something bad to him BUT YOU abuse me all the time.

i just wanted to help

8 hours ago, The 2C3D said:

Turn back now, or resign your sanity forevermore, for Beliar has invented a new classification of magic.

There’s now evil shadow magic, (which is real) and good light magic, (which is a little extra-canonical.) Not to be confused with celestial magic, which is real.

why are you abusing me. cause of my poor english. you should buy yoiurself a brain.

you think celestial and dark magic are real???????????????????????? do you think putin is dark magic and your trump is celestrial magic?

you think magic exists? you talking about magic like its a science jessssssssssssssssssus

[JoeW]

Hi - 

1 - Please be polite to each other.

2 - Please be aware that English is not everybody's first langauge. This means tone may be lost in translation. This goes both ways.

There is no reason to attack each other. Have fun. Be nice. 

Thanks.  

[b_legend]

Woah.

I made a thread to discuss what other moon machines there might be in the future, not to start a war over if the ancient pseudoscience station was of the shadows.

calm down

...

[BeliarBAD]

3 hours ago, b_legend said:

Woah.

I made a thread to discuss what other moon machines there might be in the future, not to start a war over if the ancient pseudoscience station was of the shadows.

calm down

...

evrything is fine. i didnt wanted to discuss about a future machine. i wanted just to help you finding the name for the machine which you missed.

that made confusion cause he thought i say something against your idea.

in fact i havent said any word about your idea. sorry if someone thought that

[Wumpus the 19th]

First of all, Mr.B_legend, just quickly clarify if you havent already in the original post.

Second, My only idea would be a glass wall, much like the fence, that "stupid" enemies ,like spiders and bees, and not naturally destructive enemies, like clops and bearger, will not see through it and instead stand there. although i think you can already do this with normal fences. i dont know, there probably something you could do with windows, and they would be strong as heck due to moon glass.

just an ACTUAL THOUGHT on the celestial altar

[Misa22]

On 5/6/2019 at 12:49 PM, Fjedjik said:

I hope we can use the irridecent gem and glommer wings/flower in the celestial altar in a future update
They all have a connection with the moon!

I want recipes that use the iridecent gem as well, but Klei will have to make it more intuitive to get if they ever put it as an ingredient to make other things. 

I mean:

 

-Timmy, how do we get that shiny round gem thing?

-EZ, Susan! We defeat Dragonfly to get a green gem and a yellow one, or we can directly go to the caves and explore them til' we find dem lichens, so we can pinpoint the ruins' location, so we can mine a couple ancient statues and get the green and yellow gems if we didn't kill Big Fly Fire Lava Dude. Then, inside said ruins, we find an ancient pseudoscience station, so we can craft 2 staves! One to brandish the power of the sun and other one to retrieve the materials of a think we previously made! 

-But... 

-Shh! Shh! Shut up, Susan, lemme finish; Then we use the Solar Stick of Magical Powers and we shove it in a moonrock altar, THAT WE PREVIOUSLY REPAIRED! Awesome! Then, on the night of the full moon, when the stars are aligned, we defend the altar with all our might from the hordes of hell hounds and werepig monsters until the stave, hear me up here Susan, MAGICALLY TRANSFORMS into the Magic Wand that controls the North winds! And THEN we destroy all that work with the green gem stick so we can grab that USELESS SHINY PEBBLE you want! 

-... 

-It is day 19 Susan, hurry the f*** up and shave those beefalos. Winter is almost here.

[AdventZen]

On 10/06/2019 at 7:50 PM, Misa22 said:

snip

poop, that gem better make the other ones renewable and the firestaff meta, for all its worth

also, that is a ridiculously accurate and detailed description of the whole process, really puts my average shenanigans into perspective