socooo Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 First of all, I am the original author of the pumping gas without a pump. If there's a name dispute, it's because you don't know the real reason for this phenomenon. Imagine what would happen if there was a bubble at the bottom of the pool. Obviously, bubbles will surface. So what's the difference between a waterfall and a pool? The waterfall is equivalent to a low quality pool, so there are bubbles below the waterfall, what will the bubble do?You can guess Finally, I put up the original link 1. 2. Both are bubble pumps that do not consume electricity 3. This is less efficient but the device is also simple and does not consume electricity In my country we call it a 气泡泵/气举泵 Finally, this structure has an excellent use in addition to steam turbines，as I'll show in another post Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 The name "Bead pump" is derived from the real world machine (Sprengel pump) which does the same thing, but opposite. It use beads of mercury to drag air out of a container. Personally, using your naming reasoning, I would call it a Bubble Pump. We do know why it happens. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1166292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
socooo Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Zarquan said: The name "Bead pump" is derived from the real world machine (Sprengel pump) which does the same thing, but opposite. It use beads of mercury to drag air out of a container. Personally, using your naming reasoning, I would call it a Bubble Pump. We do know why it happens. Appreciate Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1166293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @socooo no one will take away your merits. You make one without using the second liquid. I tried whit water and no results. The name is irrelevant. I call the mechanism drip effect, @mathmanican call it bead pump (he is doing a great marketing work), @Zarquan cal it from the real word reverse Sprengel pump. It's just a name. It's easier to recreate it using 2 liquids, so if devs will change the one element / tile rule many bugs will vanish. I hope that devs will acknowledge the problem and fix it. All of us want is just a better game. Now ONI is a broken game in development. I want a game balanced. Now is far from that but i didn't lose hope yet. Best regards Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1166297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, socooo said: First of all, I am the original author of the pumping gas without a pump. In my first post with the name "bead pump" you appear right at the front under the "History and credits" section. Here's my line. I am ever so grateful for these videos, as they helped me in analyzing the mechanics. THANK YOU!!!! Thanks to @blash365, I was able to find some videos by @socooo where he spent time optimizing this principle for the steam turbine. Unfortunately our native languages are not the same, so not all meaning is carried through in translation, and google translate can only do so much. I am at fault for not seeing your name "air lift pump". I was fully aware of the name "bubble pump", and understand exactly the principle you describe above. 1 hour ago, socooo said: Imagine what would happen if there was a bubble at the bottom of the pool. Obviously, bubbles will surface. So what's the difference between a waterfall and a pool? The waterfall is equivalent to a low quality pool, so there are bubbles below the waterfall, what will the bubble do?You can guess However, I would like to point out a difference between the "bead pump" and the "bubble pump" (both are a form of "air lift" pump). The bubble pump focuses on creating a pocket of air below some liquid, and then releasing the air to bubble upwards. The bead pump focuses on making the pocket of liquid above some air, and then dropping the liquid. These are two separate problems. Both use the same principle. It was pretty clear in your videos that you used both ideas, though I could not find where you focused on the principles needed to force the beads to form in the "bead pump". In both cases, tile swapping and one-element-per-tile rules give the "air lift" effect. However, I would argue that the bubble pump and bead pump have different end goals. Can the bubble pump suck up 5kg/s of CO2 from meteorites? The bubble pump won't gather air from a 40 tile fall and suck it all up into one little box, as it focusses on making a bubble under water, not focusing on making a bead fall through air. Same principle? Absolutely. Again, I would like to say, THANK YOU!!!! Spoiler This comes from my earlier posts. I have tried to always give you credit for your work. Thank you. Here's two videos that @socooo pointed to (one is linked in his write up above, the second has more details). Video linked to in post: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av27416133/? Other video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av24683724/ Thanks for sharing these @socooo. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1166306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
socooo Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, mathmanican said: In my first post with the name "bead pump" you appear right at the front under the "History and credits" section. Here's my line. I am ever so grateful for these videos, as they helped me in analyzing the mechanics. THANK YOU!!!! Thanks to @blash365, I was able to find some videos by @socooo where he spent time optimizing this principle for the steam turbine. Unfortunately our native languages are not the same, so not all meaning is carried through in translation, and google translate can only do so much. I am at fault for not seeing your name "air lift pump". I was fully aware of the name "bubble pump", and understand exactly the principle you describe above. However, I would like to point out a difference between the "bead pump" and the "bubble pump" (both are a form of "air lift" pump). The bubble pump focuses on creating a pocket of air below some liquid, and then releasing the air to bubble upwards. The bead pump focuses on making the pocket of liquid above some air, and then dropping the liquid. These are two separate problems. Both use the same principle. It was pretty clear in your videos that you used both ideas, though I could not find where you focused on the principles needed to force the beads to form in the "bead pump". In both cases, tile swapping and one-element-per-tile rules give the "air lift" effect. However, I would argue that the bubble pump and bead pump have different end goals. Can the bubble pump suck up 5kg/s of CO2 from meteorites? The bubble pump won't gather air from a 40 tile fall and suck it all up into one little box, as it focusses on making a bubble under water, not focusing on making a bead fall through air. Same principle? Absolutely. Again, I would like to say, THANK YOU!!!! Hide contents This comes from my earlier posts. I have tried to always give you credit for your work. Thank you. Here's two videos that @socooo pointed to (one is linked in his write up above, the second has more details). Video linked to in post: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av27416133/? Other video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av24683724/ Thanks for sharing these @socooo. Yes, I know you @me and thank you for liking this. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1166311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatt Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/16/2019 at 10:59 PM, tzionut said: I hope that devs will acknowledge the problem and fix it. Now I start to think, if this is what the game has to offer, we are a bunch of scientists who have cracked the game a bit and used the knowledge to create devices that do the same tasks as built-in buildings do but more efficient. As sacrifice / side effect, these devices are usually bigger, and require a lot of setup, also need a lot of more brain power in creativity and memory than just select-and-click. I start to feel that maybe we should embrace it if it works according to game mechanics. I ask myself why I didn’t like them so much, me told me that cuz it is not true to real life physics. But now the fact that these things work in game means that the game works reliably according its principles, we should embrace our work here. A round of applause, slow clapping. maybe some of these don’t need fixing. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, goatt said: maybe some of these don’t need fixing. Bubble pumps (stuff air under water and let it bubble up) and bead pumps (put a liquid bead over gas and let it fall) are both 100% part of the ONI universe. I agree completely that they should not disappear. I wouldn't consider them a bug at all. Maybe an exploit of game mechanics (more efficient than current machines), but we exploit principles of physics and engineering to do our bidding all the time in real life. Both could be eliminated if they made ALL falling liquids disappear and move via teleportation. However this would have quite crazy unintended side effects all over the map, and make the matter converter problem massive. So I'm guessing these pumps are here to stay. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 57 minutes ago, goatt said: maybe some of these don’t need fixing. They do 109%! 21 minutes ago, mathmanican said: So I'm guessing these pumps are here to stay. When something is triggered, without player interaction, i call it a bug and that stuff is happeneing everywhere on the map. Broken.. @tzionut" Now ONI is a broken game in development. " really feels that way, for me too and yes i hope too that they fix it, but i see chances not to high for that.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I hope until the official launch klei fix many bugs and balance the game. but we will see. As i said i will not play any more until the preview. At 1660 cycle loading time and saving time is insane. And i don't want to start a new game for one week. So i will play some old game Spoiler D_ a _ _ o 2 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, tzionut said: I hope until the official launch klei fix many bugs and balance the game. but we will see. As i said i will not play any more until the preview. At 1660 cycle loading time and saving time is insane. And i don't want to start a new game for one week. So i will play some old game Reveal hidden contents D_ a _ _ o 2 Yes but lategame lag is another thing, then exploits. It's very bad and influences my gameplay from first second. Debris insta clean - one mat per locker - vacuum, remove mixed gases, no ranching. I did even play a game with dupes locked down in a hamsterwheel room, to prevent using all the other generators / lines connections - automation, but after a while loading saving time is so frustrating high, ruins fun with the game completely for me. Really sucks Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, Oozinator said: but after a while loading saving time is so frustrating high, ruins fun with the game completely for me. Really sucks Now imagine 3 new bioms, new critters and new buildings. Unless Klei do something the lag will get even worse Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 The problem seems to be that each save will save every report and all the stats of every single previous cycle, not just from the last save point. When the game is released properly there should also be a hardcore mode where you at least can disable auto-saves completely. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Angpaur said: Now imagine 3 new bioms, new critters and new buildings. Unless Klei do something the lag will get even worse They can shrink the mapsize (again) about 13,33% for each new biome they add! Easy fix to boost performance, to make game satisfying to play, up to cycle 1000! If you ask me, there is not much of the other biomes, which could be removed/swapped. Map still to small. Not much to explore. When they do the portal/cave thingie, then i want not know how ONI calculates things offscreen.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Angpaur said: Now imagine 3 new bioms, new critters and new buildings. Unless Klei do something the lag will get even worse Why would that couse more lag? Lag comes mostly from critters and thermal calculations if we don`t consider our dupes and base. New biomes will contain a similar amount of critters the current ones got (just look how many dreckos are on the map) and the thermal calculations will be the same since the amount of tiles in the world won`t change (unless the map becomes larger). If there aren`t any new mechanics going on the processor usage shouldn`t change too much. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Yes but when your dupe take some raw food and instead of taking it to the grill stop for 2 seconds and drop it from no reason, then the same dupe repeat the process again...I need to sweep after it for prevent the spoilage of food. Or dupe eats some food and drop what isn't eat on the ground of the gran hall. Or jump left and right until they choke instead of going to the nearest oxygen area for breathing. The impossibility to select what critters you want to feed on the critters feeder (when i click on the shine bugs, all bugs are selected and some hatch). And the nicest shove vole eats, then freeze. The only solution is reload, and at 1660 cycle i need to wait for 8 minutes for temporary fixing this issue. This are the reason that i take this pause from the game until they fix some bugs, and i hope this will be some of them. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
0xFADE Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Perhaps all they need to do is allow air pressure to have the same strength as liquid pressure. Breaking walls and all those other consequences. Not that I think they should. This specific thing seems just fine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 hours ago, tzionut said: your dupe take some raw food and instead of taking it to the grill stop for 2 seconds and drop it from no reason, then the same dupe repeat the process again...I need to sweep after it for prevent the spoilage of food. I got my food storage on high priority and no food is left on the ground ever. The dupe dropping stuff when delivering to the grill is an annoying recipie cycling bug that can be fixed by disabling recipies until one ingredient is delivered. 8 hours ago, tzionut said: The impossibility to select what critters you want to feed on the critters feeder (when i click on the shine bugs, all bugs are selected and some hatch). That`s beacause critters share the stuff they eat. You select lets say gristle berry. Basic shinebugs can eat that. Sun bugs can eat it and iirc royal bugs (the violet ones) can as well. The food increases chance for a sun bug so all shinebug morphs that can breed that morph can eat it. Hatches and sage hatches can eat all types of food so they are shown selected as well. In the end the type of food you selected will be delivered to the feeder anyway so no reason to watch which cathegory it belongs to. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 @Sasza22 If you want i put my save file and after deselect all select only shinebugs for feeder. You will see that hatches are also selected... Utopia.sav Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, nakomaru said: You aren't selecting critters. You are selecting food. And you don't see this as a problem? How can i bread certain types of bugs when i can't feed them what is need for increase the chance that bug lay a certain type egg. Ex: I want sun bugs. To get them i need to feed shine bugs bristle berry or grilled bristle berry. But my dupes send to the creatures feeder only phosphorus Even if i have some grilled bristle in storage...You see now the problem? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Quote And don't select phosphorus if you don't want to feed them phosphorus. Only if the rooms whit the bugs are sealed, or i build a room where i store all the phosphorus and lock it. Other the dupes will bring phosphorus in the feeder if you don't have enough food. Post edit: I will build in the development version a stable only for bugs whit sorting facility. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 @nakomaru you have my savegame. Try if you want to send only grilled bristle to the creature feeder. That is my configuration of storing bugs. I repeat. If the room isn't sealed for preventing dupe access, or all the phosphorus in the asteroid isn't stored in a room and sealed from dupe access, you can't send a certain type of food to the feeder. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I never had that issue before. Last time i selected a type of food for the feeder they only delivered that type. Do they now ignore th food selected and deliver phosphorite instead? It makes no sense. I gotta check that up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSatx Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 some of y'all are way too loose calling things bugs.. as in anything you disagree with being a mechanic in the game. lol. respect the ONI dev team.. what is IS. Use it or don't. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Thank you @nakomaru Now i see what was the problem. I didn't expand the area under the creature name... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/103945-his-real-name-is-actually-an-air-lift-pump%EF%BC%88bubble-pump%EF%BC%89/#findComment-1167691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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